General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Re: Natural 'cures' can be killers (contd)

Started by David Wright · · Last activity · 6 posts · 394 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
3 September 2003
Last activity
11 September 2003
Original author
David Wright
Posts
6
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  1. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Carole said:

    There are two different kinds of alternative supplements - herbs and
    nutritional supplements. It is interesting that conventional medicine
    is saying how unsafe alternative remedies can be, yet the 4th leading
    cause of death in US is properly prescribed and taken pharmaceutical
    drugs.

    Actually, it's nowhere near that high, but Carole The Ignoramus will
    go on making that false claim (as will most alties) until the end of
    time.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  2. "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Carole said:

    There are two different kinds of alternative supplements - herbs and
    nutritional supplements. It is interesting that conventional medicine
    is saying how unsafe alternative remedies can be, yet the 4th leading
    cause of death in US is properly prescribed and taken pharmaceutical
    drugs.

    Actually, it's nowhere near that high, but Carole The Ignoramus will
    go on making that false claim (as will most alties) until the end of
    time.


    Please DO post the accurate numbers. Be sure to include everything. You
    know, like how many died from a "bad reaction", and from wrong drug given,
    and and from mis-diagnosis who go home to die. And from the wrong type of
    blood, and the ones who die from "complications" in surgry, and the ones who
    die while being "treated" by restraint, and the ones who do not seek other
    help because the "doctor" said "oh that stuff is bunk", even though the
    "doctor" had NO knowledge about whatever the "other" help might have been.
    And when you have found and fathefuly reported on that, you might enjoy
    doing the same for those who were only injured.

    Quoted message said:

    After all that, then come here and ask someone to do the same for


    Alternative Medicine, but not till you KNOW those numbers.

    Quoted message said:

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  3. "David" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Carole said:

    There are two different kinds of alternative supplements - herbs and
    nutritional supplements. It is interesting that conventional medicine
    is saying how unsafe alternative remedies can be, yet the 4th leading
    cause of death in US is properly prescribed and taken pharmaceutical
    drugs.

    Actually, it's nowhere near that high, but Carole The Ignoramus will
    go on making that false claim (as will most alties) until the end of
    time.


    Please DO post the accurate numbers. Be sure to include everything. You
    know, like how many died from a "bad reaction", and from wrong drug given,
    and and from mis-diagnosis who go home to die. And from the wrong type of
    blood, and the ones who die from "complications" in surgry, and the ones


    who

    Quoted message said:

    die while being "treated" by restraint,


    Yes I know that "restraint" is not a drug.

    Quoted message said:

    and the ones who do not seek other
    help because the "doctor" said "oh that stuff is bunk", even though the
    "doctor" had NO knowledge about whatever the "other" help might have been.
    And when you have found and fathefuly reported on that, you might enjoy
    doing the same for those who were only injured.

    Quoted message said:

    After all that, then come here and ask someone to do the same for


    Alternative Medicine, but not till you KNOW those numbers.

    Quoted message said:

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  4. "Carole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Carole said:

    There are two different kinds of alternative supplements - herbs and
    nutritional supplements. It is interesting that conventional medicine
    is saying how unsafe alternative remedies can be, yet the 4th leading
    cause of death in US is properly prescribed and taken pharmaceutical
    drugs.

    Actually, it's nowhere near that high, but Carole The Ignoramus will
    go on making that false claim (as will most alties) until the end of
    time.

    So its not the 4th leading cause ...just the 20th or the 50th. Oh, I
    apologise.
    And so we have a recall of all Pan products because a few people
    experienced adverse side effects of what wasn't even an alternative
    product.

    But I know what you are going to say. It was the way they were
    manufactured, not whether they were pharm or alt - but how come they
    didn't mention this in the newspapers? All they did was point out the
    dangers of alternative medications. It was only through Dr Rath's
    website I found out that Travacalm was a pharmaceutical product.
    Wouldn't you say that was misleading the public?

    And if you believe the official story, I have a bridge to sell you.

    Carole
    http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/health.htm


    He has already bought enough bridges that he cannot afford any more. He got
    a piece of paper to prove it too!

  5. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Peter Bowditch said:
    (Carole) said:

    It was only through Dr Rath's
    website I found out that Travacalm was a pharmaceutical product.
    Wouldn't you say that was misleading the public?

    I would, but it is typical of the sort of misleading that Rath and his
    ilk go in for.

    The active ingredient in Travacalm is scopolamine, or hyoscine
    hydrobromide, derived from a plant (henbane). It's in my 1931
    botanical medicine book.

    Indeed. What alties seem to forget is that a great many (if not most)
    "conventional" medicines come from plants, herbs, and animal products. A
    large number also come from chemical modifications of compounds first
    extracted from plants, herbs, etc.

    And if conventional medicine is supposedly so hostile to such things,
    why is is that the NIH has several large programs designed to do nothing
    but to find natural products that might be useful as drugs or therapies?
    For instance, the NCI screens thousands of compounds against cancer; the
    National Institute of Child Health and Human Development screens natural
    compounds for anti-HIV activity, among other things; the National
    Institute of Mental Health looks for compounds that have promise for
    breaking drug dependency, depression, and schizophrenia. In addition,
    other government agencies have teamed with universities to locate
    natural products that can be used as drugs and as agrochemicals that
    will not harm the environment. Major pharmaceutical companies have
    similar programs to screen natural compounds for medicinal activity of
    interest, and you know they wouldn't put the resources into such
    activity if they didn't expect success.

    Conventional medicine has always been interested in herbal and natural
    remedies. The recent interest in "alternative medicine" is nothing new.
    Such seems to wax and wane over time. There was a similar upsurge in
    interest in such remedies earlier this century in Europe, particularly
    in the 1920's and 1930's. In any case, I have said here many times that
    I think it is a good thing that science is finally testing alternative
    remedies. It's time to find the ones that really do some good and to get
    rid of the ones that don't work or that are harmful. The only way to
    figure out which is which is to test them. I've also always said that
    alternative medicine should be treated exactly the same as conventional
    medicine. That means alternative remedies should be subject to the same
    testing as conventional remedies, but if they pass they should be used
    side by side with "conventional" medicine.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"

  6. Peter Bowditch <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    (Carole) said:

    It was only through Dr Rath's
    website I found out that Travacalm was a pharmaceutical product.
    Wouldn't you say that was misleading the public?

    I would, but it is typical of the sort of misleading that Rath and his
    ilk go in for.

    The active ingredient in Travacalm is scopolamine, or hyoscine
    hydrobromide, derived from a plant (henbane). It's in my 1931
    botanical medicine book.

    Travacalm is an over-the-counter pharmacy only pharmaceutical drug and
    NOT an alternative remedy. But yet in the newspapers when they were
    saying how dangerous alternative remedies were, they threw Travacalm
    in as an example.
    That's midleading the public.

    They don't mention the fact that 1 in 4 pharmaceutical drugs have
    undesirous effects, or that doctors are prescribing expensive drugs
    when cheaper generic ones would do the job just as easy and a lot more
    safer too. And how come the pharmaceutical companies spend so much on
    marketing their products. If the drugs worked they would market
    themselves, but instead of this we have them pushing expensive drugs
    onto people and making their health more chronic. And often they have
    to take another drug to counter the side effects of the primary drug
    they're taking.

    You do know about the Nazi connection regarding BASF, Hoescht and
    Bayer, who are the three drug companies formed when the Nurenberg War
    Trials disbanded IG Farben, manufacturer of the poison gas used in
    Nazi concentration camps? They are still up to their tricks and
    nothing has changed.

    Carole
    http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/health.htm

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