Re: Nuke 'Em Again!!

Ryan Case said:

Agreed. And a part of me feels sorry for you for your, albeit
hypothetical, decision in the matter. I hope that something happens in
your life to cause you to change your mind. But I am not going to make
it my job to try and do so.

Oops, sorry, I'm pretty sure it's somewhere in the MFW charter that you
absolutely MUST spend 800 posts on attempting to change his mind.

HTH.

Dally

Ryan Case said:

I was pretty sure that I was going to have to dislike you for your sig
alone, but you made me laugh.

So making you laugh is more reason to dislike me?

TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."
S**t list: Charlie Bendahoe, TBR imposter

Ryan Case said:

I was pretty sure that I was going to have to dislike you for your sig
alone, but you made me laugh.

So making you laugh is more reason to dislike me?

TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."
S**t list: Charlie Bendahoe, TBR imposter

Dally said:

The guy is a bit creepy if you ask me.

Coming from you, that's a definitly a good thing.

TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."
S**t list: Charlie Bendahoe, TBR imposter

Dally said:

The guy is a bit creepy if you ask me.

Coming from you, that's a definitly a good thing.

TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."
S**t list: Charlie Bendahoe, TBR imposter

"Dally" <[email hidden]> wrote in

Quoted message said:

Ryan Case said:

Agreed. And a part of me feels sorry for you for your, albeit
hypothetical, decision in the matter. I hope that something happens in
your life to cause you to change your mind. But I am not going to make
it my job to try and do so.

Quoted message said:

Oops, sorry, I'm pretty sure it's somewhere in the MFW charter that you
absolutely MUST spend 800 posts on attempting to change his mind.

Trying to recruit neighbors for you and Down Under David in Hell?

David
the Heaven bound one

"Dally" <[email hidden]> wrote in

Quoted message said:

Ryan Case said:

Agreed. And a part of me feels sorry for you for your, albeit
hypothetical, decision in the matter. I hope that something happens in
your life to cause you to change your mind. But I am not going to make
it my job to try and do so.

Quoted message said:

Oops, sorry, I'm pretty sure it's somewhere in the MFW charter that you
absolutely MUST spend 800 posts on attempting to change his mind.

Trying to recruit neighbors for you and Down Under David in Hell?

David
the Heaven bound one

The Bill Rodgers said:

Ryan Case said:

I was pretty sure that I was going to have to dislike you for your sig
alone, but you made me laugh.

So making you laugh is more reason to dislike me?

No, it was meant in the sense of your sig being the lone reason for me
probably having to dislike you.

Dally said:

Ryan Case said:

The Bill Rodgers said:

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 21:31:35 -0400, Dally <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Lovely. And not a drop of estrogen to be found.

Then why is he sitting on that guys face? And even more disturbing,
why is the guy enjoying it?

I was pretty sure that I was going to have to dislike you for your sig
alone, but you made me laugh.

Ryan

He made me think, "ewwww". The guy is a bit creepy if you ask me.

It would be wise therefore, with your nervous disposition Wendy, not
to offend the "creepy" ones or to draw attention to yourself!

Ryan Case said:

No, it was meant in the sense of your sig being the lone reason for me
probably having to dislike you.

Well hopefully in time, you'll learn to hate me for legitamite
reasons.

TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."
S**t list: Charlie Bendahoe, TBR imposter

Ryan Case said:

No, it was meant in the sense of your sig being the lone reason for me
probably having to dislike you.

Well hopefully in time, you'll learn to hate me for legitamite
reasons.

TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."
S**t list: Charlie Bendahoe, TBR imposter

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 20:58:53 GMT, "David" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Dally" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David said:

"Dally" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

>Ryan Case wrote:
>
>
>>WillBrink wrote:
>
>>As the parent of a special needs child I can say without doubt that you
>>just destroyed any respect I had for you.
>
>There is much to respect about Will. His family values just aren't on
>that list.

If you find that list, can you publish it for us?

1. He likes colors with more than one word in the name.

2. He knows a thing or two about testosterone.

3. He is liberal enough to survive unscathed in MA.

4. He can hang out with strippers without wanting to sleep with [most
of] them.

There's probably more, but that's what comes to mind.

Dally

There seems to be a conflict between #2 and #4
(Or knowing about testosterone is not the same as having it).

You are a very astute fellow young Sir! ;o)

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 20:58:53 GMT, "David" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Dally" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David said:

"Dally" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

>Ryan Case wrote:
>
>
>>WillBrink wrote:
>
>>As the parent of a special needs child I can say without doubt that you
>>just destroyed any respect I had for you.
>
>There is much to respect about Will. His family values just aren't on
>that list.

If you find that list, can you publish it for us?

1. He likes colors with more than one word in the name.

2. He knows a thing or two about testosterone.

3. He is liberal enough to survive unscathed in MA.

4. He can hang out with strippers without wanting to sleep with [most
of] them.

There's probably more, but that's what comes to mind.

Dally

There seems to be a conflict between #2 and #4
(Or knowing about testosterone is not the same as having it).

You are a very astute fellow young Sir! ;o)

"Charles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 20:58:53 GMT, "David" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Dally" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David wrote:

> "Dally" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
>
>>Ryan Case wrote:
>>
>>
>>>WillBrink wrote:
>>
>>>As the parent of a special needs child I can say without doubt that

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>just destroyed any respect I had for you.
>>
>>There is much to respect about Will. His family values just aren't

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>that list.
>
> If you find that list, can you publish it for us?

1. He likes colors with more than one word in the name.

2. He knows a thing or two about testosterone.

3. He is liberal enough to survive unscathed in MA.

4. He can hang out with strippers without wanting to sleep with [most
of] them.

There's probably more, but that's what comes to mind.

Dally

There seems to be a conflict between #2 and #4
(Or knowing about testosterone is not the same as having it).

You are a very astute fellow young Sir! ;o)

Dally is proving very prolific lately, - seems athletic ability is not her
only endowment

In article <[email hidden]>,

The Bill Rodgers said:

WillBrink said:

And your comments on said self defense laws in MA were wrong, and you
tucked your tail and ran like a [censored] when your ignorance was corrected.

No it is not wrong.

Then your reading skills suck worse then your memory. No shock there.
Your ignorant comments were shown to be wrong, plain and simple.

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

In article <[email hidden]>, Ryan Case <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

WillBrink said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ryan Case said:

WillBrink wrote:

>In article <[email hidden]>,
> Ryan Case <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>WillBrink wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>In article <[email hidden]>,
>>>Ryan Case <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>WillBrink wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <[email hidden]>, Dally <[email hidden]>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>How's that?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Terrible and estrogen filled. If I was told by the doc tests showed
>>>>>the
>>>>>kid was going to come out with DS, I would go in there myself with a
>>>>>spoon and terminate it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>As the parent of a special needs child I can say without doubt that you
>>>>just destroyed any respect I had for you.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Your personal experience is irrelevant. It's great you love your special
>>>needs kid, but given the choice, I would want the option to terminate,
>>>and if they were not already in this world, I would want to save them
>>>and I the heartbreak of such afflictions.
>>>
>>
>>Hmmm. I am sure that if I had the time and desire I could come up with a
>>pretty convincing argument comparing the pains and benefits of raising
>>such a child with the pains and benefits of working out/lifting weights.
>
>
>And I would have no problems countering such an odd comparison. I have
>much respect for people who give all they have to raising a DS kid.

I want to make sure that I don't misrepresent myself here. My son is not
DS. He is Hemipalegic (sp).

>Bottom line however is it's not what you or anyone else wished for or
>hoped for, but what you got.

Careful there. My wife and I skipped the tests that could have told us
whether or not our son had certain hereditary problems as it didn't
matter to us. When we chose to have a child we chose to love whoever and
whatever we were given. (I could include some faith based reasoning, but
I don't want to stir up the aetheist jews.)

Ah, so if you go to have another kid, and the doc says "we now have a
drug that is 100% safe and effective for making sure that problem is
corrected with this next child" your response would be "no thanx doc, we
want another kid who is Hemipalegic."

No. And I didn't mean to imply this. (Sorry if it seemed that I was)

What I am simply stating is that a child not being "medically perfect"
is not reason to terminate it in my eyes.

Agreed, but it depends on the nature of the problem.

Quoted message said:

But I also don't see aborting
an imperfect pregnancy as a solution or a means of "making sure that
problem is corrected".

No one made that claim.

Quoted message said:

And it seams to me that you are in a round about
way equating the two.

Then you are not reading my post close enough.

Quoted message said:

Quite simply, if in the first tri-mester I was told that my next child
was going to hemi (yes I have heard all the dodge jokes.) I wouldn't
even have to think about whether or not I was going to keep him.

That's a different issue then my example, and I have great respect for
your being willing to have another "hemi" kid. I on the other hand, if
given the option,I would rather abort a fetus who had a genetic
affliction and would be doomed to a life in a wheel chair unable to
speak, such as severe cerebral palsy and others. No one is going to
convince me a parents heart does not break when the doc comes in the
room and tells you your kid has CP. They make the best of the situation
and come to love the kid, but don't lie to me or yourself by telling me
heartbreak is not involved here.

Quoted message said:

Of course I would rather my son didn't have to go through these
difficulties. I would be crazy to wish otherwise. But that doesn't mean
that I feel he would have been better off to not exist. Which is what it
seemed you were saying.

Only you can make that decision. However, it would be relative to the
affliction and what type of life the kid would have to look forward to.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sorry, I don't buy it nor would
any parent turn that away. You can justify all you want how grateful you
are to have a special needs kid.

Once again, there is a major difference between turning away a cure, and
turning away from a pregnancy because of complications. You seem to be
equating the again.

Quoted message said:

I am greatful to have a child, special needs or not. The truth of the
matter is that when you are in this kind of situation it is just life.
Not normal life, or special needs life or any of that other labeling
[censored]. It is life, dealing with the hand you are dealt, just like my bum
knee, skin cancer and bad skin, but on a different level.

Quoted message said:

It wont have any effects on me as I
know the truth.
No one wishes for a handicapped, SD, retarded, etc kid
and given the actual choice, would choose not to have it if they could
cure it.

I am not stating the opposite to that (although I do have some friends
that would like to adopt a DS child). What I was saying is that there
are many folks out there who don't see killing a pregnancy becuase it is
imperfect as an option. I feel I must bring us back to what caused me to
have the emotional knee jerk reaction in your original post. You stated
that you would abort a "imperfect" pregnancy. Now you are talking about
curing it. Two different things. Plain and simple. Curing an ilness/
malidy usually does not require the death of the host/afflicted. What
you are talking about is irradication.

One must be careful. This almost smacks of halocost. Curing the world of
DS babies by aborting them. (because you don't know me very well, I feel
it is in the best interest of this discussion to let you know that that
was a good natured jab.)

Quoted message said:

The rest is academic as to what I would choose to have and
what you have chosen to accept.

Agreed. And a part of me feels sorry for you for your, albeit
hypothetical, decision in the matter. I hope that something happens in
your life to cause you to change your mind. But I am not going to make
it my job to try and do so.

Ryan

Quoted message said:

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

In article <[email hidden]>,

David Cohen said:

"Dally" <[email hidden]> wrote in

Quoted message said:

Ryan Case said:

Agreed. And a part of me feels sorry for you for your, albeit
hypothetical, decision in the matter. I hope that something happens in
your life to cause you to change your mind. But I am not going to make
it my job to try and do so.

Quoted message said:

Oops, sorry, I'm pretty sure it's somewhere in the MFW charter that you
absolutely MUST spend 800 posts on attempting to change his mind.

Trying to recruit neighbors for you and Down Under David in Hell?

David, considering your job, I would say you are in a unique position to
have an opinion here. If your doc told you tests came back indicating
the child would be born with a severe case of cerebral palsy say, and
would spend his life in a wheel chair unable to speak or ever be a
functional adult, would you decide any kid was a gift and keep it or
would you opt to abort it?

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

WillBrink said:

David, considering your job, I would say you are in a unique position to
have an opinion here. If your doc told you tests came back indicating
the child would be born with a severe case of cerebral palsy say, and
would spend his life in a wheel chair unable to speak or ever be a
functional adult, would you decide any kid was a gift and keep it or
would you opt to abort it?

Cerebral palsy is an interesting choice, because the people I've known
with CP were not mentally retarded, just palsied, i.e., not able to
control their body very well. Furthermore, it was not detectable in
utero and AFAIK was caused at birth.

A more detectable and more awful condition would be one of the
trisomies. I know someone with a Trisomy 18 kid. That's a birth defect
not compatible with life. But they loved that little lump of flesh and
cared for it night and day and wept when it, err, "she" died at the ripe
old age of five.

You play the hand you're dealt. It works out in the end to be "a life".
Yours, hers, ours. It's the stuff life is made out of.

Dally

David said:

Dally is proving very prolific lately, - seems athletic ability is not her
only endowment

Good catch. I've got a sports injury so I'm unusually sedentary plus
it's a busy time for my business so I'm chained to my desk.

Dally

Dally said:

WillBrink said:

David, considering your job, I would say you are in a unique position
to have an opinion here. If your doc told you tests came back
indicating the child would be born with a severe case of cerebral
palsy say, and would spend his life in a wheel chair unable to speak
or ever be a functional adult, would you decide any kid was a gift and
keep it or would you opt to abort it?

Cerebral palsy is an interesting choice, because the people I've known
with CP were not mentally retarded, just palsied, i.e., not able to
control their body very well. Furthermore, it was not detectable in
utero and AFAIK was caused at birth.

Hemipalegic children are CP. CP is, in my limited experience, usually
just a very broad term used to define children with a brain injury.

It's like saying that I was born with cancer. Yes I was, but it was
topical skin cancer. Not Melnoma (sp), or lung cancer, or liver cancer,
or breast cancer, or prostate cancer, or one of the other ones that
usually requires radiation/chemo. Not one of the horrible types, not
that they aren't all horrible, that people usually equate with folks
asking how long does he have? I had about a third of the skin removed
from my back and have been more or less fine in that area since. But it
was still cancer.

Another good example was my son having infintile spasms. That is a
seziure disorder. They don't call it seziures because most people
invision epileptic (sp) seziure episodes when the word is used. But they
are none the less seziures and can destroy a childs ability to develope
mentally if not corrected.

Quoted message said:

A more detectable and more awful condition would be one of the
trisomies. I know someone with a Trisomy 18 kid. That's a birth defect
not compatible with life. But they loved that little lump of flesh and
cared for it night and day and wept when it, err, "she" died at the ripe
old age of five.

We had a stay at the Children's Hospital in Seattle after our son had
his "G" tube placed when he was four months old. There was a child of
about three or four years across from us. She was not socially
functional at all. Couldn't eat, couldn't take care of herself in *any*
way. And her parents knew that when she got truly sick for the first
time in her life that it would kill her. But every once and a while she
would look at one of her parents and smile and it would just melt them.

That had two younger daughters as well. Both medically normal.

Oh, and we don't lead an Estrogen deprived life, Dally. Someone has to
be behind the camera thought. LOL.

Quoted message said:

You play the hand you're dealt. It works out in the end to be "a life".
Yours, hers, ours. It's the stuff life is made out of.

Dally