Re: Shimano 515 SPD Problem

Bailes said:

Check that the cleat is not worn, most cyclist favor one foot and unclip
primarily on that side. I have also seen these the cleat interface wear
prematurely and will need to replace the pedals. Buy some Crank Bros a real
pedal system.

Crank Brother cleats wearout faster than Shimano because they are brass,
but the pedal is definately an improvement.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Better the cleats wearing out than the actual pedal I would have thought
mind you can;t give 515's away in our shop!

Bailes said:

Better the cleats wearing out than the actual pedal I would have thought
mind you can;t give 515's away in our shop!

I agree, but CB should lower the price on the cleats or use stronger
material. I'm not worried about an extra 10 grams. I find they wear out
after 2 - 3 months of moderate use. At US$18 a set you are look at
US$72 - US$108 a year. That's more than I paid for the pedals to being
with (well at least the Candy C's).

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot (Still a Happy CB Candy User) o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

"Ride-A-Lot" wrote: Crank Brother cleats wearout faster than Shimano
because they are brass, (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I just checked the cleats that came with my Eggbeaters, and they stick to a
magnet. They're NOT bass--they're steel. They DO have a brassy looking
finish, though.

Leo Lichtman said:

"Ride-A-Lot" wrote: Crank Brother cleats wearout faster than Shimano
because they are brass, (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I just checked the cleats that came with my Eggbeaters, and they stick to a
magnet. They're NOT bass--they're steel. They DO have a brassy looking
finish, though.

Then it must be a very soft alloy. Could it be brass mixed with some
steel? Whatever it is, it's soft.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Ride-A-Lot said:

Quoted message said:

Better the cleats wearing out than the actual pedal I would have thought
mind you can;t give 515's away in our shop!

I agree, but CB should lower the price on the cleats or use stronger
material. I'm not worried about an extra 10 grams. I find they wear out
after 2 - 3 months of moderate use. At US$18 a set you are look at
US$72 - US$108 a year. That's more than I paid for the pedals to being
with (well at least the Candy C's).

To my experience, the Eggbeaters had two major problems. As said, the
cleats wear out extremely fast. About 2000 km was enough to cause an
annoying amount of play. With my current mileage, that's less than a
month and a half of use.

I had 2002 model Eggbeaters and the bearings were absolutely awful.
Actually there's no bearing at all on the inside but a plastic bushing,
and there would soon be significant play between the spindle and the
pedal body. I used the pedals for almost ten thousand kilometres on my
road bike but eventually got tired of the hassle and switched back to
Shimano.

The basic Shimano pedals, like PD-M520, are much better quality than
the pedals from Crank Brothers at much lower price. If you want light
pedals, Speedplay Frogs are even lighter and a lot better made.

I'm sure the Eggbeaters have their advantages when riding offroad, though.

-as

Ride-A-Lot said:

Leo Lichtman said:

"Ride-A-Lot" wrote: Crank Brother cleats wearout faster than Shimano
because they are brass, (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I just checked the cleats that came with my Eggbeaters, and they stick
to a magnet. They're NOT bass--they're steel. They DO have a brassy
looking finish, though.

Then it must be a very soft alloy. Could it be brass mixed with some
steel? Whatever it is, it's soft.

It's possible that the magnet he's using is sticking to the screws in
his shoe.

AFAICT, they're brass. Indeed, it's not a "brass finish" because the
color is consistent all the way through the cleat. It's meant to be
soft, because you have a choice, either wear the cleat out or wear the
pedal out, or both simultaneously.

I'll choose the cleat, thankyouverymuch.

My stainless eggbeaters are into their third year. What I have noticed
is that the spring has lost some of its oomph, and the free wing can
wiggle back and forth a few degrees. Still holds on to the cleat well,
though.

They've had some pretty good use, being used to commute every day.

--
BMO

Antti Salonen said:

The basic Shimano pedals, like PD-M520, are much better quality than
the pedals from Crank Brothers at much lower price. If you want light
pedals, Speedplay Frogs are even lighter and a lot better made.

I'm sure the Eggbeaters have their advantages when riding offroad, though.

I dunno, a friend shattered his lower leg in a twisting fall. He claimed
his EggBeaters didn't release, he's gone back to spuds. I've never had a
spud trap my foot, and I've taken a lot of falls.

Peter Cole said:

Antti Salonen said:

The basic Shimano pedals, like PD-M520, are much better quality than
the pedals from Crank Brothers at much lower price. If you want light
pedals, Speedplay Frogs are even lighter and a lot better made.
I'm sure the Eggbeaters have their advantages when riding offroad,
though.

I dunno, a friend shattered his lower leg in a twisting fall. He claimed
his EggBeaters didn't release, he's gone back to spuds. I've never had a
spud trap my foot, and I've taken a lot of falls.

That was always my fear with moving away from SPD's. I wear full tread
MTB shoes (the kind that are like light hikers). I find that if I don't
use the supplied shim with the CB cleats, they release just as easily as
SPD's (when you want them to). If I put the shim on, bike and me do not
seperate. So, I don't use the shim.

Not that I make it a point to ride in mud, but sometimes you put your
foot down in a slightly muddy area. I always had to clean the cleat and
peddle of an SPD with a stick. I have never had to do that with CB's.
They shed mud like a baby oil covered stripper.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Ride-A-Lot said:

Not that I make it a point to ride in mud, but sometimes you put your
foot down in a slightly muddy area. I always had to clean the cleat and
peddle of an SPD with a stick. I have never had to do that with CB's.

Yeah, mud (and snow, if you're into that) are the weak spot for SPD, and
that's where eggbeaters shine.

I don't think its the cleat. The pedal stays stuck open even after
she's unclipped. Its like the two parts of the pedal are catching on
each other & preventing the moving part from returning.

Ride-A-Lot said:

Bailes said:

Check that the cleat is not worn, most cyclist favor one foot and unclip
primarily on that side. I have also seen these the cleat interface wear
prematurely and will need to replace the pedals. Buy some Crank Bros a real
pedal system.

Crank Brother cleats wearout faster than Shimano because they are brass,
but the pedal is definately an improvement.

"Boyle M. Owl" wrote: (clip) It's possible that the magnet he's using is
sticking to the screws in his shoe.
AFAICT, they're brass. Indeed, it's not a "brass finish" because the color
is consistent all the way through the cleat. It's meant to be soft,
because you have a choice, either wear the cleat out or wear the pedal out,
or both simultaneously. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's a valid point, but I went back and tood the cleat OFF. and rechecked.
It is weakly magnetic. I tested with a file, and you are correct--it IS
softer than the SPD cleat. It's definitely not brass. I work with metals a
lot, and I can tell the difference. I think it's stainless steel. Some
stainless is slightly magnetic. An alloy of brass and steel has HORRIBLE
properties, and would never be used.

The instructions indicate that the cleats are deliberately made softer than
the pedals, so they will wear instead of the pedals. This makes sense to
me.

BTW, the Crank instructions are among the best written I have seen. They
are clear and complete, and do not insult your intelligence.

Peter Cole said:

Ride-A-Lot said:

Not that I make it a point to ride in mud, but sometimes you put your
foot down in a slightly muddy area. I always had to clean the cleat
and peddle of an SPD with a stick. I have never had to do that with
CB's.

Yeah, mud (and snow, if you're into that) are the weak spot for SPD,
and that's where eggbeaters shine.

Ah, but if you never need to stop, then you won't need to put your foot down
in mud 😉
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Leo Lichtman said:

"Boyle M. Owl" wrote: (clip) It's possible that the magnet he's using is
sticking to the screws in his shoe.
AFAICT, they're brass. Indeed, it's not a "brass finish" because the color
is consistent all the way through the cleat. It's meant to be soft,
because you have a choice, either wear the cleat out or wear the pedal out,
or both simultaneously. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's a valid point, but I went back and tood the cleat OFF. and rechecked.
It is weakly magnetic. I tested with a file, and you are correct--it IS
softer than the SPD cleat. It's definitely not brass. I work with metals a
lot, and I can tell the difference. I think it's stainless steel. Some
stainless is slightly magnetic.

300 series stainless is nonmagnetic
400 series is magnetic.

Quoted message said:

An alloy of brass and steel has HORRIBLE
properties, and would never be used.

It could be a copper/nickel alloy. That would make it slightly magnetic
(the nickel is magnetic). A copper/nickel alloy would have a similar
color to the cleat too.

I pointed a pickup magnet at the cleat of my shoe today. I couldn't
rightly tell if the cleat itself was magnetic, or if I was really
picking up the steel plate underneath the sole where the cleat screws
into. It felt like the cleat was weakly magnetic. It's definitely not
steel, whatever it is. It's the wrong color, and believe me, I've got
enough samples of stainless, tool, galv, and generic CRS 1010/1018 steel
to compare it to...literally tons of it.

And the more I read, the more it seems like these cleats are made out of
Marinel (or another copper/nickel alloy) than anything else. The total
lack of tarnishing on the non-wearing surfaces throughout the winter of
salt and icy roads leads me to suspect that. Marinel is a Copper-Nickel
alloy that can have anywhere between 10 and 30 percent nickel with trace
amounts of iron and manganese.

At least that's what I would choose if I was designing a cleat that
needed to be softer than steel but strong enough to take the forces of a
caffeine fueled commuter late for work and would have high corrosion
resistance.

--
BMO

Leo Lichtman said:

The instructions indicate that the cleats are deliberately made softer than
the pedals, so they will wear instead of the pedals. This makes sense to
me.

Yeah, but so are cones versus cups, and forged steel cranks versus crank
spindle interfaces.. none of them needs to go quite to the trouble of
going down to brass, rather than slightly milder steel.

Jasper

Jasper Janssen said:

Quoted message said:

The instructions indicate that the cleats are deliberately made
softer than the pedals, so they will wear instead of the pedals.
This makes sense to me.

Quoted message said:

Yeah, but so are cones versus cups, and forged steel cranks versus
crank spindle interfaces.. none of them needs to go quite to the
trouble of going down to brass, rather than slightly milder steel.

I doubt that this is a well graded affair. My experience with SPD
pedals is that the cleat AND latch gall when riding in the right
gritty conditions and cease to disengage with the expected release
force. This galling (welding) would probably not occur if there was a
large disparity in hardness or with different materials. I prefer it
the way it is because I can always put a drop of oil under the rear
tang of the cleat to return it to ideal service. I don't want this
interface to wear significantly in 50,000 miles or more. They have
not let me down.

[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Jasper Janssen said:

Quoted message said:

The instructions indicate that the cleats are deliberately made
softer than the pedals, so they will wear instead of the pedals.
This makes sense to me.

Quoted message said:

Yeah, but so are cones versus cups, and forged steel cranks versus
crank spindle interfaces.. none of them needs to go quite to the
trouble of going down to brass, rather than slightly milder steel.

I doubt that this is a well graded affair. My experience with SPD
pedals is that the cleat AND latch gall when riding in the right
gritty conditions and cease to disengage with the expected release
force. This galling (welding) would probably not occur if there was a
large disparity in hardness or with different materials. I prefer it
the way it is because I can always put a drop of oil under the rear
tang of the cleat to return it to ideal service. I don't want this
interface to wear significantly in 50,000 miles or more. They have
not let me down.

[email hidden]

Dear Jobst,

Wouldn't grit between the cleat and latch prevent rather
than encourage the galling-welding?

Or does the grit prepare the surfaces for some later welding
process?

Carl Fogel

Carl Fogel said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> The instructions indicate that the cleats are deliberately made
> softer than the pedals, so they will wear instead of the pedals.
> This makes sense to me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, but so are cones versus cups, and forged steel cranks versus
crank spindle interfaces.. none of them needs to go quite to the
trouble of going down to brass, rather than slightly milder steel.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I doubt that this is a well graded affair. My experience with SPD
pedals is that the cleat AND latch gall when riding in the right
gritty conditions and cease to disengage with the expected release
force. This galling (welding) would probably not occur if there
was a large disparity in hardness or with different materials. I
prefer it the way it is because I can always put a drop of oil
under the rear tang of the cleat to return it to ideal service. I
don't want this interface to wear significantly in 50,000 miles or
more. They have not let me down.

Quoted message said:

Wouldn't grit between the cleat and latch prevent rather than
encourage the galling-welding?

Quoted message said:

Or does the grit prepare the surfaces for some later welding
process?

You got it! The grit develops a rough surface with micro ridges that
later, when clean and dry, weld and raise release force considerably.
When in that mode, out on the road, wetting the cleat in a clean
roadside puddle will correct the problem but oiling it is more
durable. Most filling stations have at least one oil container tossed
in the garbage. These always have enough oil to fully lube at least
one chain and plenty of cleats.

[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Jasper Janssen said:

Quoted message said:

The instructions indicate that the cleats are deliberately made
softer than the pedals, so they will wear instead of the pedals.
This makes sense to me.

Quoted message said:

Yeah, but so are cones versus cups, and forged steel cranks versus
crank spindle interfaces.. none of them needs to go quite to the
trouble of going down to brass, rather than slightly milder steel.

I doubt that this is a well graded affair. My experience with SPD
pedals is that the cleat AND latch gall when riding in the right
gritty conditions and cease to disengage with the expected release
force. This galling (welding) would probably not occur if there was a
large disparity in hardness or with different materials. I prefer it
the way it is because I can always put a drop of oil under the rear
tang of the cleat to return it to ideal service. I don't want this
interface to wear significantly in 50,000 miles or more. They have
not let me down.

[email hidden]

you got 50k miles out of a 515 pedal??? either you had custom spindle
bearings made or you're "estimating" mileage again. there's no way the
515's stock bearings last that long. cones/spindles on mine were
irreparably spalled in less than 15k. they were correctly adjusted &
lubed. the bearing quality on the 515 simply isn't good enough.