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Re: Stain-Associated Memory Loss

Started by Sharon Hope · · Last activity · 15 posts · 276 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
9 August 2003
Last activity
24 August 2003
Original author
Sharon Hope
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  1. "Brad Sheppard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm stopping Lipitor 10 mg and going on Niaspan (hdl increaser). What
    scares me is the muscle problems some people get. For Niaspan info see
    http://www.niaspan.com/templates/patient.asp?class=1&page=1

    Brad,
    Lipitor has this problem, too. Please see
    http://www.citizen.org/publications/release.cfm?ID=7051, Petition to the
    FDA to issue strong warnings about the potential for certain
    cholesterol-lowering drugs to cause potentially life-threatening muscle
    damage. (HRG Publication #1588)

    You will note that, while Baycol had the largest number of deaths to
    rhabdomyolysis, in the period October 1997 through December 2000, there were
    86 cases of rhabdomyolysis, 11 % of the rhabdo cases, in Lipitor patients.
    Of those, 13 Lipitor patients died in that same time period - 18.1% of the
    statin death cases.

    On that same site you listed, but at
    http://www.niaspan.com/templates/patient.asp?class=1&page=75 it says
    (emphasis added with *s) "Rare cases of a serious muscle disorder have been
    reported *****when niacin is taken in combination with other cholesterol-
    correcting medications*****. You should report to your doctor any
    unexplained muscle pain or weakness if you're taking other
    cholesterol-correcting medications while on NIASPAN®, as this could be a
    sign of a serious, but rare, side effect."

    You said you were stopping Lipitor, so the combination effect should not be
    an issue if you wait for the Lipitor to leave your body before starting the
    other drug.

  2. Thanks, I'm going to stop Lipitor. I don't want any muscle damage. My
    ratio with 10 mg Lipitor is great - 2.3 - but my LP(a) is high at 53.
    I'll try Niaspan if the flushing bothers me too much I'll take nothing
    and see what happens to my blood. Niaspan reduces LP9a).

    "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Brad Sheppard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm stopping Lipitor 10 mg and going on Niaspan (hdl increaser). What
    scares me is the muscle problems some people get. For Niaspan info see
    http://www.niaspan.com/templates/patient.asp?class=1&page=1

    Brad,
    Lipitor has this problem, too. Please see
    http://www.citizen.org/publications/release.cfm?ID=7051, Petition to the
    FDA to issue strong warnings about the potential for certain
    cholesterol-lowering drugs to cause potentially life-threatening muscle
    damage. (HRG Publication #1588)

    You will note that, while Baycol had the largest number of deaths to
    rhabdomyolysis, in the period October 1997 through December 2000, there were
    86 cases of rhabdomyolysis, 11 % of the rhabdo cases, in Lipitor patients.
    Of those, 13 Lipitor patients died in that same time period - 18.1% of the
    statin death cases.

    On that same site you listed, but at
    http://www.niaspan.com/templates/patient.asp?class=1&page=75 it says
    (emphasis added with *s) "Rare cases of a serious muscle disorder have been
    reported *****when niacin is taken in combination with other cholesterol-
    correcting medications*****. You should report to your doctor any
    unexplained muscle pain or weakness if you're taking other
    cholesterol-correcting medications while on NIASPAN®, as this could be a
    sign of a serious, but rare, side effect."

    You said you were stopping Lipitor, so the combination effect should not be
    an issue if you wait for the Lipitor to leave your body before starting the
    other drug.

  3. It seems to me I heard somewhere that Brad Sheppard wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks, I'm going to stop Lipitor. I don't want any muscle damage. My
    ratio with 10 mg Lipitor is great - 2.3 - but my LP(a) is high at 53.
    I'll try Niaspan if the flushing bothers me too much I'll take nothing
    and see what happens to my blood. Niaspan reduces LP9a).

    Each of us has to do what we think reasonable and justified *in the
    light of all of our individual factors*, but I'm at 80mg of lipitor,
    have been on statins since my MI in 1998, am 74 (and 1/2 <G>😉, normally
    run four 3-mile sessions per week, walk 18 holes of golf per week, and
    have normal blood tests including liver enzymes. I think the odds are
    on my side for continuing to do well, and my cardios all have seemed to
    think the same. I'm also on 500mg niacin (has been 1000 until a few
    months ago), 20mg lisipronil, aspirin 325mg, and atenolol 12.5mg, as
    well as some doctor-recommended supplements.

    I gave my rationale in an earlier message in this thread.

    Quoted message said:

    "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Brad Sheppard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm stopping Lipitor 10 mg and going on Niaspan (hdl increaser). What
    scares me is the muscle problems some people get. For Niaspan info see
    http://www.niaspan.com/templates/patient.asp?class=1&page=1

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Lipitor has this problem, too. Please see
    http://www.citizen.org/publications/release.cfm?ID=7051, Petition to the
    FDA to issue strong warnings about the potential for certain
    cholesterol-lowering drugs to cause potentially life-threatening muscle
    damage. (HRG Publication #1588)


    --
    Don
    [email hidden]

  4. "M. Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:


    Sharon, you talk about "rare" cases as if they were common. Shame on
    you.

    I am talking about my own husband of 34+ years. In our family the incidence
    rate is 100%. If you consider "rare" a 2% rate (which the article sited
    considers too low), then take a look at how many people that affects. There
    are over 100 million people on statins now, world-wide. At 2% that is 2
    million people affected.

    Do you want commercial jet pilots to be among that 2 million? How about
    brain surgeons? How about the guy driving the 16-wheeler 2 feet away from
    your car in the next lane?

    Quoted message said:

    I've been taking 10 mg of Zocor for a few years and my memory is
    excellent.

    I'm 61 and as long as I remember the words to my collection of Doo-Wop
    music so I can sing along, well, all is fine.

    Of course 10 mg of Zocor is a very low dose. Actually, 10 mg of
    Lipitor is like 20 mg of Zocor.

    Mel, trying to remember what he had for breakfast today. ;-)

    Here is to your health and hoping you do better than most. Dr. Gaist's
    study showed people over 50 on statins for 2 or more years were 26 times as
    likely as the normal population to develop polyneuropathy.

    Here's hoping your muscles stay intact, your memory survives, you don't get
    the amnesia, and your nerves are not affected in hands, feet and elsewhere.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    "Brad Sheppard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm stopping Lipitor 10 mg and going on Niaspan (hdl increaser). What
    scares me is the muscle problems some people get. For Niaspan info see
    http://www.niaspan.com/templates/patient.asp?class=1&page=1

    Brad,
    Lipitor has this problem, too. Please see
    http://www.citizen.org/publications/release.cfm?ID=7051, Petition to


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    FDA to issue strong warnings about the potential for certain
    cholesterol-lowering drugs to cause potentially life-threatening muscle
    damage. (HRG Publication #1588)

    You will note that, while Baycol had the largest number of deaths to
    rhabdomyolysis, in the period October 1997 through December 2000, there


    were

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    86 cases of rhabdomyolysis, 11 % of the rhabdo cases, in Lipitor


    patients.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Of those, 13 Lipitor patients died in that same time period - 18.1% of


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    statin death cases.

    On that same site you listed, but at
    http://www.niaspan.com/templates/patient.asp?class=1&page=75 it says
    (emphasis added with *s) "Rare cases of a serious muscle disorder have


    been

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    reported *****when niacin is taken in combination with other


    cholesterol-

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    correcting medications*****. You should report to your doctor any
    unexplained muscle pain or weakness if you're taking other
    cholesterol-correcting medications while on NIASPAN®, as this could be a
    sign of a serious, but rare, side effect."

    You said you were stopping Lipitor, so the combination effect should not


    be

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    an issue if you wait for the Lipitor to leave your body before starting


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    other drug.

  5. Don,
    You are very fortunate, and I hope your health remains good.

    At least now you know some of the adverse effects to be aware of and watch
    for. How many of the ones I mentioned in this thread were brought to your
    attention by your doctor?

    "Don Kirkman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Brad Sheppard wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks, I'm going to stop Lipitor. I don't want any muscle damage. My
    ratio with 10 mg Lipitor is great - 2.3 - but my LP(a) is high at 53.
    I'll try Niaspan if the flushing bothers me too much I'll take nothing
    and see what happens to my blood. Niaspan reduces LP9a).

    Each of us has to do what we think reasonable and justified *in the
    light of all of our individual factors*, but I'm at 80mg of lipitor,
    have been on statins since my MI in 1998, am 74 (and 1/2 <G>😉, normally
    run four 3-mile sessions per week, walk 18 holes of golf per week, and
    have normal blood tests including liver enzymes. I think the odds are
    on my side for continuing to do well, and my cardios all have seemed to
    think the same. I'm also on 500mg niacin (has been 1000 until a few
    months ago), 20mg lisipronil, aspirin 325mg, and atenolol 12.5mg, as
    well as some doctor-recommended supplements.

    I gave my rationale in an earlier message in this thread.

    Quoted message said:

    "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Brad Sheppard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > I'm stopping Lipitor 10 mg and going on Niaspan (hdl increaser). What
    > scares me is the muscle problems some people get. For Niaspan info


    see

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > http://www.niaspan.com/templates/patient.asp?class=1&page=1

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Lipitor has this problem, too. Please see
    http://www.citizen.org/publications/release.cfm?ID=7051, Petition to


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    FDA to issue strong warnings about the potential for certain
    cholesterol-lowering drugs to cause potentially life-threatening muscle
    damage. (HRG Publication #1588)


    --
    Don
    [email hidden]

  6. Don,

    I agree with and I'd continue on Lipitor except my chol is very low at
    136 now after years of dietary change. Only my LP(a) is high and
    Niaspan (causes fewer side effects than niacin) reduces LP(a). Check
    out the Niaspan website about reversing blockages -
    http://www.niaspan.com/templates/hcp.asp?class=2&page=2 Best of luck
    to you = and don't forget fish oil - AHA recs all MI patients get 1
    gram omega 3 - see scientific statement.

    Don Kirkman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Brad Sheppard wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks, I'm going to stop Lipitor. I don't want any muscle damage. My
    ratio with 10 mg Lipitor is great - 2.3 - but my LP(a) is high at 53.
    I'll try Niaspan if the flushing bothers me too much I'll take nothing
    and see what happens to my blood. Niaspan reduces LP9a).

    Each of us has to do what we think reasonable and justified *in the
    light of all of our individual factors*, but I'm at 80mg of lipitor,
    have been on statins since my MI in 1998, am 74 (and 1/2 <G>😉, normally
    run four 3-mile sessions per week, walk 18 holes of golf per week, and
    have normal blood tests including liver enzymes. I think the odds are
    on my side for continuing to do well, and my cardios all have seemed to
    think the same. I'm also on 500mg niacin (has been 1000 until a few
    months ago), 20mg lisipronil, aspirin 325mg, and atenolol 12.5mg, as
    well as some doctor-recommended supplements.

    I gave my rationale in an earlier message in this thread.

    Quoted message said:

    "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Brad Sheppard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > I'm stopping Lipitor 10 mg and going on Niaspan (hdl increaser). What
    > scares me is the muscle problems some people get. For Niaspan info see
    > http://www.niaspan.com/templates/patient.asp?class=1&page=1

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Lipitor has this problem, too. Please see
    http://www.citizen.org/publications/release.cfm?ID=7051, Petition to the
    FDA to issue strong warnings about the potential for certain
    cholesterol-lowering drugs to cause potentially life-threatening muscle
    damage. (HRG Publication #1588)

  7. "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Don,
    You are very fortunate, and I hope your health remains good.

    At least now you know some of the adverse effects to be aware of and watch
    for. How many of the ones I mentioned in this thread were brought to your
    attention by your doctor?

    And now he knows what to watch out for? You've got to be kidding. The
    guy is 74 and taking a whopping high dose of Lipitor and apparently no
    memory problem and you warn him? Ridiculous!

    Oh sure, he'll probably have some memory degradation when in the 80's
    and you'll say it's the Lipitor.

    Mel, still trying to remember what he had for breakfast today.

    Quoted message said:


    "Don Kirkman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Brad Sheppard wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks, I'm going to stop Lipitor. I don't want any muscle damage. My
    ratio with 10 mg Lipitor is great - 2.3 - but my LP(a) is high at 53.
    I'll try Niaspan if the flushing bothers me too much I'll take nothing
    and see what happens to my blood. Niaspan reduces LP9a).

    Each of us has to do what we think reasonable and justified *in the
    light of all of our individual factors*, but I'm at 80mg of lipitor,
    have been on statins since my MI in 1998, am 74 (and 1/2 <G>😉, normally
    run four 3-mile sessions per week, walk 18 holes of golf per week, and
    have normal blood tests including liver enzymes. I think the odds are
    on my side for continuing to do well, and my cardios all have seemed to
    think the same. I'm also on 500mg niacin (has been 1000 until a few
    months ago), 20mg lisipronil, aspirin 325mg, and atenolol 12.5mg, as
    well as some doctor-recommended supplements.

    I gave my rationale in an earlier message in this thread.

    Quoted message said:

    "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > "Brad Sheppard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > news:[email hidden]...
    > > I'm stopping Lipitor 10 mg and going on Niaspan (hdl increaser). What
    > > scares me is the muscle problems some people get. For Niaspan info


    see

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > http://www.niaspan.com/templates/patient.asp?class=1&page=1

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Lipitor has this problem, too. Please see
    > http://www.citizen.org/publications/release.cfm?ID=7051, Petition to


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > FDA to issue strong warnings about the potential for certain
    > cholesterol-lowering drugs to cause potentially life-threatening muscle
    > damage. (HRG Publication #1588)


    --
    Don
    [email hidden]

  8. "M. Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:


    Sharon, you talk about "rare" cases as if they were common. Shame on
    you.

    I've been taking 10 mg of Zocor for a few years and my memory is
    excellent.

    I'm 61 and as long as I remember the words to my collection of Doo-Wop
    music so I can sing along, well, all is fine.

    Of course 10 mg of Zocor is a very low dose. Actually, 10 mg of
    Lipitor is like 20 mg of Zocor.

    Sharon, keep up the good work educating people about the risks.
    There are several things I would like to point out.

    1) To begin with, there is a 50 /50 ratio of those with CHD who have high
    cholesterol to those who have normal or low cholesterol. This data is even
    in the famous Framington Study which as been manipulated by the drug
    companies to make it look as if there is a connection. It is also
    established in other studies. In other words, lowering cholesterol may not
    have any effect on CHD or the likelihood of getting CHD.

    2) Whatever effects attributed to Statins could be attributed to the fact
    that Statins have anti inflamatory properties. The same is true of Aspirin
    and at SIGNIFICANTLY lower price and risk.

    3) Statins are a big bucks industry. One should be suspicious of any
    company that pushes drugs directly to consumers with words such as "Ask you
    doctor about ...... " This is putting drug companies on the same par as
    used car salesmen.

  9. "M. Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    And now he knows what to watch out for? You've got to be kidding. The
    guy is 74 and taking a whopping high dose of Lipitor and apparently no
    memory problem and you warn him? Ridiculous!

    Lack of association between cholesterol and coronary heart disease mortality
    and morbidity and all-cause mortality in persons older than 70 years.
    JAMA. 1994 Nov 2;272(17):1335-40.

    Krumholz HM, Seeman TE, Merrill SS, Mendes de Leon CF, Vaccarino V,
    Silverman DI, Tsukahara R, Ostfeld AM, Berkman LF.

    Department of Internal Medicine, Yale University School of Medicine, New
    Haven, CT 06520-8017.

    "CONCLUSIONS--Our findings do not support the hypothesis that
    hypercholesterolemia or low HDL-C are important risk factors for all-cause
    mortality, coronary heart disease mortality, or hospitalization for
    myocardial infarction or unstable angina in this cohort of persons older
    than 70 years."

    PMID: 7772105

  10. "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in part:

    Quoted message said:

    "M. Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    And now he knows what to watch out for? You've got to be kidding. The
    guy is 74 and taking a whopping high dose of Lipitor and apparently no
    memory problem and you warn him? Ridiculous!

    Lack of association between cholesterol and coronary heart disease mortality
    and morbidity and all-cause mortality in persons older than 70 years.
    JAMA. 1994 Nov 2;272(17):1335-40.

    Krumholz HM, Seeman TE, Merrill SS, Mendes de Leon CF, Vaccarino V,
    Silverman DI, Tsukahara R, Ostfeld AM, Berkman LF.

    Department of Internal Medicine, Yale University School of Medicine, New
    Haven, CT 06520-8017.

    "CONCLUSIONS--Our findings do not support the hypothesis that
    hypercholesterolemia or low HDL-C are important risk factors for all-cause
    mortality, coronary heart disease mortality, or hospitalization for
    myocardial infarction or unstable angina in this cohort of persons older
    than 70 years."

    I would really expect this result to apply in general across most "risk
    factors" for most fatal illnesses. While factor X may predict early mortality
    in a cohort of 30-year-olds, the very notion seems silly in a cohort of
    centenarians. There's a selection process going on during our lives. The risk
    factors tend to kill those of us who are most susceptible to them. After a
    certain age, those living with the risk factors are probably immune to them.

    This seems almost just a methodological issue!
    --
    Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

  11. My husband nearly did die - from the effects of Lipitor.

    "M. Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<UUXZa.123540$Ho3.15031@sccrnsc03>...

    Quoted message said:


    Maybe that one depends

    Quoted message said:

    on who you believe. One can die finding out they believed the wrong
    person.

    Mel

  12. "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    My husband nearly did die - from the effects of Lipitor.

    I understand your pain, but there are other people who almost died
    from other medications. How about the number of lives statin drugs can
    save or just help extend life?

    There are numerous medications that can cause very serious side
    effects. Do we take them all off the market?

    Mel

    Quoted message said:


    "M. Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<UUXZa.123540$Ho3.15031@sccrnsc03>...

    Quoted message said:


    Maybe that one depends

    Quoted message said:

    on who you believe. One can die finding out they believed the wrong
    person.

    Mel

  13. If you would read my posts, never once will you see a suggestion to take
    statins off the market.

    What you will see is strongly stated proposals to:

    1) Inform doctors and patients of the known side-effects and take action
    before brain damage, muscle damage, and/or nerve damage has progressed to
    disabling levels.

    2) Identify a treatment for those who do get the side-effects, do not leave
    them disabled with no way to recover from the direct side-effects of taking
    the drug.

    There used to be a "First, do no harm" consideration. Now, we don't even
    have a "Treat the harm after you cause it" approach.

    With 106 Million people on statins, and nerve damage in the 2-6% range,
    memory loss in the 2-4% range, and myopathies in the 5-15% range (and
    cognitive deficit at 100%, per Muldoon), the numbers of affected people are
    significant - with 1% equalling more than 1 million.

    If the most prescribed drug and the most prescribed class of drugs in the
    world is causing disabilities in from 9 million to 25 million people, then
    it seems reasonable that there be some treatment option for these people.
    (2+2+5=9 at the low end; 6+4+15=25 at the high end)

    As it is, funding to help people with non-preventable muscular dystrophy,
    neuropathies, and alzheimers is extremely scarce. Adding 9-15 million more
    to their ranks does not help.

    Adding 9-25 million to Social Security Disability 10 years early, at the
    peak of their earning years, does not seem to be economically responsible.

    Lipitor alone is called the $10 BILLION DOLLAR DRUG, perhaps there is some
    R&D funding that could be applied to developing a treatment for the damage
    it does.

    Wouldn't that be a much better picture for the ones who benefit from the
    drug to fit into?

    "M. Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    My husband nearly did die - from the effects of Lipitor.

    I understand your pain, but there are other people who almost died
    from other medications. How about the number of lives statin drugs can
    save or just help extend life?

    There are numerous medications that can cause very serious side
    effects. Do we take them all off the market?

    Mel

    Quoted message said:


    "M. Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<UUXZa.123540$Ho3.15031@sccrnsc03>...

    Quoted message said:


    Maybe that one depends

    Quoted message said:

    on who you believe. One can die finding out they believed the wrong
    person.

    Mel

  14. "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<iBS1b.237071$o%2.108596@sccrnsc02>...

    Quoted message said:

    If you would read my posts, never once will you see a suggestion to take
    statins off the market.

    What you will see is strongly stated proposals to:

    1) Inform doctors and patients of the known side-effects and take action
    before brain damage, muscle damage, and/or nerve damage has progressed to
    disabling levels.

    2) Identify a treatment for those who do get the side-effects, do not leave
    them disabled with no way to recover from the direct side-effects of taking
    the drug.

    There used to be a "First, do no harm" consideration. Now, we don't even
    have a "Treat the harm after you cause it" approach.

    With 106 Million people on statins, and nerve damage in the 2-6% range,
    memory loss in the 2-4% range, and myopathies in the 5-15% range (and
    cognitive deficit at 100%, per Muldoon), the numbers of affected people are
    significant - with 1% equalling more than 1 million.

    If the most prescribed drug and the most prescribed class of drugs in the
    world is causing disabilities in from 9 million to 25 million people, then
    it seems reasonable that there be some treatment option for these people.
    (2+2+5=9 at the low end; 6+4+15=25 at the high end)

    As it is, funding to help people with non-preventable muscular dystrophy,
    neuropathies, and alzheimers is extremely scarce. Adding 9-15 million more
    to their ranks does not help.

    Adding 9-25 million to Social Security Disability 10 years early, at the
    peak of their earning years, does not seem to be economically responsible.

    Lipitor alone is called the $10 BILLION DOLLAR DRUG, perhaps there is some
    R&D funding that could be applied to developing a treatment for the damage
    it does.

    Wouldn't that be a much better picture for the ones who benefit from the
    drug to fit into?

    Yes. I also feel that people should try to reduce LDL and raise HDL by
    eating correctly and exercising. I think many people rely more on
    statins than doing the most they can for themselves. I believe taking
    a low dose statin drug is the best insurance against side effects.

    My cardiologist wanted to start me on 20 mg of Zocor. I insisted on
    trying 10 mg first. He argued 10 mg would not do anything and pointed
    to his medical book showing 20 mg of Zocor as the starting dose. I
    again insisted on starting with 10 mg and kind of made it clear I
    would not start with 20 mg. Finally, he agreed to let me start with 10
    mg of Zocor. Result: I now have a TC of 133 and LDL of 81. My
    Triglycerides are 65. My HDL is a bit low at 38 but I am exercising
    more, although Dr. Dean Ornish might very well say my body doesn't
    need more HDL and 38 is not a problem.

    I began eating the right foods along with the right portions and
    exercised and magic - my cardiologist is not suggesting 20 mg of Zocor
    anymore and says to just keep doing what I do, and, he is not even
    concerned about my HDL being 2 points under the desired minimum of 40.

    Mel

    Quoted message said:

    "M. Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    My husband nearly did die - from the effects of Lipitor.

    I understand your pain, but there are other people who almost died
    from other medications. How about the number of lives statin drugs can
    save or just help extend life?

    There are numerous medications that can cause very serious side
    effects. Do we take them all off the market?

    Mel

    Quoted message said:


    "M. Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<UUXZa.123540$Ho3.15031@sccrnsc03>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >


    Maybe that one depends

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > on who you believe. One can die finding out they believed the wrong
    > person.
    >
    > Mel
    >

  15. "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<JN52b.244016$o%2.110432@sccrnsc02>...

    Quoted message said:

    And did your doctor inform you of the potential for brain damage, muscle
    damage, and/or nerve damage before prescribing statin?

    Did your doctor have you take a neuropsych test prior to statin treatment,
    and comparative re-tests after 6 months and 1 year?

    Do you get regular CK and other liver testing?

    Do you get neurological testing regularly?

    Yes, I get regular liver testing. No to the other tests. I took it
    upon myself to research the POSSIBLE side effects before taking Zocor.
    I think all people should check the side effects of any drug before
    taking. Lots of drugs have dangerous side effects and it is up to the
    individual to decide if the benefit outweighs the risk, and that
    includes operations.

    I agree with you that doctors SHOULD tell their patients about side
    effects of any drug. However, we all know that doctors do not make a
    habit of telling their patients this information and probably rely on
    the pharmacy including the information. In any event, we as adults
    should learn to be more involved and check possible side effects of
    any prescribed medicine.

    As I said before, I take 10 mg of Zocor which is a low dose and I am
    not overly concerned. If I didn't take a statin drug, well, I'd
    probably be a lot more concerned and stress isn't healthy.

    Mel, taking his chances.

    Quoted message said:

    "M. Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<iBS1b.237071$o%2.108596@sccrnsc02>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    If you would read my posts, never once will you see a suggestion to take
    statins off the market.

    What you will see is strongly stated proposals to:

    1) Inform doctors and patients of the known side-effects and take action
    before brain damage, muscle damage, and/or nerve damage has progressed


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    disabling levels.

    2) Identify a treatment for those who do get the side-effects, do not


    leave

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    them disabled with no way to recover from the direct side-effects of


    taking

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the drug.

    There used to be a "First, do no harm" consideration. Now, we don't


    even

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    have a "Treat the harm after you cause it" approach.

    With 106 Million people on statins, and nerve damage in the 2-6% range,
    memory loss in the 2-4% range, and myopathies in the 5-15% range (and
    cognitive deficit at 100%, per Muldoon), the numbers of affected people


    are

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    significant - with 1% equalling more than 1 million.

    If the most prescribed drug and the most prescribed class of drugs in


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    world is causing disabilities in from 9 million to 25 million people,


    then

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    it seems reasonable that there be some treatment option for these


    people.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    (2+2+5=9 at the low end; 6+4+15=25 at the high end)

    As it is, funding to help people with non-preventable muscular


    dystrophy,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    neuropathies, and alzheimers is extremely scarce. Adding 9-15 million


    more

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to their ranks does not help.

    Adding 9-25 million to Social Security Disability 10 years early, at the
    peak of their earning years, does not seem to be economically


    responsible.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Lipitor alone is called the $10 BILLION DOLLAR DRUG, perhaps there is


    some

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    R&D funding that could be applied to developing a treatment for the


    damage

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    it does.

    Wouldn't that be a much better picture for the ones who benefit from the
    drug to fit into?

    Yes. I also feel that people should try to reduce LDL and raise HDL by
    eating correctly and exercising. I think many people rely more on
    statins than doing the most they can for themselves. I believe taking
    a low dose statin drug is the best insurance against side effects.

    My cardiologist wanted to start me on 20 mg of Zocor. I insisted on
    trying 10 mg first. He argued 10 mg would not do anything and pointed
    to his medical book showing 20 mg of Zocor as the starting dose. I
    again insisted on starting with 10 mg and kind of made it clear I
    would not start with 20 mg. Finally, he agreed to let me start with 10
    mg of Zocor. Result: I now have a TC of 133 and LDL of 81. My
    Triglycerides are 65. My HDL is a bit low at 38 but I am exercising
    more, although Dr. Dean Ornish might very well say my body doesn't
    need more HDL and 38 is not a problem.

    I began eating the right foods along with the right portions and
    exercised and magic - my cardiologist is not suggesting 20 mg of Zocor
    anymore and says to just keep doing what I do, and, he is not even
    concerned about my HDL being 2 points under the desired minimum of 40.

    Mel

    Quoted message said:

    "M. Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > My husband nearly did die - from the effects of Lipitor.
    >
    > I understand your pain, but there are other people who almost died
    > from other medications. How about the number of lives statin drugs can
    > save or just help extend life?
    >
    > There are numerous medications that can cause very serious side
    > effects. Do we take them all off the market?
    >
    > Mel
    >
    > >
    > > "M. Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email hidden]...
    > > > "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<UUXZa.123540$Ho3.15031@sccrnsc03>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > >


    Maybe that one depends

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > > on who you believe. One can die finding out they believed the


    wrong

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > > person.
    > > >
    > > > Mel
    > > >

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