Re: the silent killer? Re: Military backgrounds...



P

pervect

Guest
"Peter D. Tillman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Hmm -- I wonder if a strong-enough EMP pulse would stop a person's
> heart? Or, more likely, induce terminal fibrillation.
>
> A new weapon for sfnal assassins?
>
> Cheers -- Pete Tillman


I think you'll have extreme difficulty getting any currents to pass through
the heart with an EMP pulse.

The problem is that a short pulse like an EMP pulse has mostly high
frequency components. The skin effect (a property of conductors in general,
not specifically human skin) keeps the high frequencies from penetrating
very far into the body.

The relative safety of high frequency current isn't just theory - Tesla, for
instance, used to put on demonstrations with his tesla coil, drawing huge
sparks from his body.

The biggest danger with high frequency (RF or above) electricity is the
possibilty of painful burns.

AFAIK, other than nuclear bombs (which are very wide area devices) the EMP
devices that exist are basically pulsed microwave beams, which opearate by
burning out the generator.

There is some possibility for pain and perhaps even damage from intense
enough microwave sources. But I would not expect that you could get enough
penetration to affect the heart.

For an interesting if somewhat bizarre example, the military has been
investigating a microwave beam which causes painful burning sensations
(allegedly without actual damage) for crowd control, see for instance

http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/science/03/02/new.weapon.02/
 
Thanks, Pervect (et al.). I didn't realize EMP's were so hi-freq.

Cheers -- Pete Tillman


In article <twf5b.42982$Qy4.40882@fed1read05>,
"pervect" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Peter D. Tillman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Hmm -- I wonder if a strong-enough EMP pulse would stop a person's
> > heart? Or, more likely, induce terminal fibrillation.
> >
> > A new weapon for sfnal assassins?
> >
> > Cheers -- Pete Tillman

>
> I think you'll have extreme difficulty getting any currents to pass through
> the heart with an EMP pulse.
>
> The problem is that a short pulse like an EMP pulse has mostly high
> frequency components. The skin effect (a property of conductors in general,
> not specifically human skin) keeps the high frequencies from penetrating
> very far into the body.
>
> The relative safety of high frequency current isn't just theory - Tesla, for
> instance, used to put on demonstrations with his tesla coil, drawing huge
> sparks from his body.
>
> The biggest danger with high frequency (RF or above) electricity is the
> possibilty of painful burns.
>
> AFAIK, other than nuclear bombs (which are very wide area devices) the EMP
> devices that exist are basically pulsed microwave beams, which opearate by
> burning out the generator.
>
> There is some possibility for pain and perhaps even damage from intense
> enough microwave sources. But I would not expect that you could get enough
> penetration to affect the heart.
>
> For an interesting if somewhat bizarre example, the military has been
> investigating a microwave beam which causes painful burning sensations
> (allegedly without actual damage) for crowd control, see for instance
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/science/03/02/new.weapon.02/
>
>
>
 
The p in emp in fact generates a very wide spectrum of em. The very
first emp observed during a high altitude test over the South Pacific
affected *power lines* as far away as Hawaii.
But I suspect that being close enough to induce any currents in the
human body would be very risky for lots of other reasons...

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 23:06:11 -0700, "pervect" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Peter D. Tillman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> Hmm -- I wonder if a strong-enough EMP pulse would stop a person's
>> heart? Or, more likely, induce terminal fibrillation.
>>
>> A new weapon for sfnal assassins?
>>
>> Cheers -- Pete Tillman

>
>I think you'll have extreme difficulty getting any currents to pass through
>the heart with an EMP pulse.
>
>The problem is that a short pulse like an EMP pulse has mostly high
>frequency components. The skin effect (a property of conductors in general,
>not specifically human skin) keeps the high frequencies from penetrating
>very far into the body.
>
>The relative safety of high frequency current isn't just theory - Tesla, for
>instance, used to put on demonstrations with his tesla coil, drawing huge
>sparks from his body.
>
>The biggest danger with high frequency (RF or above) electricity is the
>possibilty of painful burns.
>
>AFAIK, other than nuclear bombs (which are very wide area devices) the EMP
>devices that exist are basically pulsed microwave beams, which opearate by
>burning out the generator.
>
>There is some possibility for pain and perhaps even damage from intense
>enough microwave sources. But I would not expect that you could get enough
>penetration to affect the heart.
>
>For an interesting if somewhat bizarre example, the military has been
>investigating a microwave beam which causes painful burning sensations
>(allegedly without actual damage) for crowd control, see for instance
>
>http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/science/03/02/new.weapon.02/
>
>
 
In article <ZCI5b.44434$Qy4.35980@fed1read05>,
"pervect" <[email protected]> wrote:

> High powered radar (like those aboard ships) have been known to cook birds,
> and they have the capability to kill a human, too. But the damage mechanism
> is heating (cooking is an extreme case of heating).


Which reminds me of a cautionary tale I once heard as a midshipman
visiting Corpus Christi NAS: in the late Pleistocene, the HV for the
base's radars was supplied by big, water-cooled rectifiers. A SA,
assisting in descaling the tank, decided he had to take a leak *now*,
and used the tank. Unfortunately, it was powered up. A painful, smelly,
undignified death followed...

Ick, Pete
 
"Peter D. Tillman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <ZCI5b.44434$Qy4.35980@fed1read05>,
> "pervect" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > High powered radar (like those aboard ships) have been known to cook

birds,
> > and they have the capability to kill a human, too. But the damage

mechanism
> > is heating (cooking is an extreme case of heating).

>
> Which reminds me of a cautionary tale I once heard as a midshipman
> visiting Corpus Christi NAS: in the late Pleistocene, the HV for the
> base's radars was supplied by big, water-cooled rectifiers. A SA,
> assisting in descaling the tank, decided he had to take a leak *now*,
> and used the tank. Unfortunately, it was powered up. A painful, smelly,
> undignified death followed...
>
> Ick, Pete


Which in turn reminds me of a story I heard regarding a military radar
installation. Supposedly, the less-than-brilliant guard was sitting in front
of the radar dish on those cold winter nights to keep warm. One night he
decides he's not warm enough and somehow gets the radar output up to 10
times it's normal output. He cooks to death, of course.