Re: Unicon 2006- info online



G

GizmoDuck

Guest
J

joemarshall

Guest
I know there are some non-competetive rides organised, but is there any
point coming if we just want to ride unicycles and don't want to
compete at all, and are more muni than indoor riding types?

Is anyone else considering coming and not messing around with
competing?

Due to limited money and time, for me it's a decision between Unicon
and doing a muni trip to the Italian alps, which would probably end up
being a lot cheaper, but obviously wouldn't have such a large number of
unicyclists there.

Joe


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S

steve.colligan

Guest
joemarshall wrote:
> Is anyone else considering coming and not messing around with
> competing?
>
> Joe




Not sure whether I'll be there or not. If I do, then the only
competing I'd be doing would be in the hockey. On the other hand,
spending time in the Alps with the Muni could possibly be a better
option for myself. Hmmm.....:rolleyes:

Steve


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nickjb

Guest
I wasn't planning on competing (except for hockey and basketball). I
expect I'll take part in one or two other fun events when I get there.

I was thinking of taking a few days out and heading to the hilly bits.
Not sure how far it is to places like Verbier(I really haven't thought
this through yet :) ). I'm sure somewhere with lifts would go against
the whole Gravity Karma thing but it would be fun.

Nick


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J

joemarshall

Guest
Klaas Bil wrote:
> Joe, if I may ask: why are you not considering to enter a competition?
>




Cos I like riding with people much more than riding competitively. Also
cos most of the competitions are boring ones, like track races or
stupid ones like wheel walking with your nose for 200 metres, or comedy
small wheel racing, if I'm going to travel to somewhere I'd rather
spend the time seeing the place and riding it than hanging around in
sports halls or riding on flat tracks.

I'd kind of consider entering the marathon, but that would mean
bringing a big wheel with me, which would be a right old hassle,
although if I have a schlumpf by then it'd only mean compromising a bit
on what I'd ride for muni. The fact there aren't any proper muni races
(if it's rideable on a road uni it isn't a muni race, if it's only
downhill it's only measuring a third of your riding skills like Ken
said) doesn't fill me with confidence as to the goodness of the muni
riding planned either.

To be honest though, I think as a muni or distance rider, you're almost
always going to get better races by getting good enough to enter bike
races on their terms. You get proper long courses with ups and downs,
designed by experienced course designers, as opposed to something down
the side of a hill that lasts for 5 minutes designed by someone who
thinks that xc means rideable on a 20" street unicycle.

Yeah, so I'm only really considering coming along for the fun bits and
going riding, but if everyone is going to be off doing backwards
standup wheel walk 200 metres all the time then obviously I don't want
to, which was why I was wondering if other people are coming along just
to go riding like.

Joe


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G

GILD

Guest
While nothing is finally decided yet, it would seem that I'm using my
leave and budget for a trip to Europe to attend the European Juggling
Convention in Ireland in July.
No disrespect to you fine people, who I'd love to hang out with and
will someday, I just had to make the decision and finally based it on
the fact that Juggling is another of my interests, that I would be
travelling with a group of friends from South Africa and that would
allow us to play 'international UniHoki at the EJC.'
(http://tinyurl.com/d9p8m)

The more I read about Unicon the more I am wavering but I suspect those
considerations will force me to miss this one.


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C

cathwood

Guest
GILD wrote:
> While nothing is finally decided yet, it would seem that I'm using my
> leave and budget for a trip to Europe to attend the European Juggling
> Convention in Ireland in July.
> No disrespect to you fine people, who I'd love to hang out with and
> will someday, I just had to make the decision and finally based it on
> the fact that Juggling is another of my interests, that I would be
> travelling with a group of friends from South Africa and that would
> allow us to play 'international UniHoki at the EJC.'
> (http://tinyurl.com/d9p8m)
>
> The more I read about Unicon the more I am wavering but I suspect those
> considerations will force me to miss this one.




No, no, come to the EJC. I'm going to the EJC, although possibly not
for all of it. Depending on how much annual leave I have left by then.

And now I've found uni hockey too.

Cathy


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sarah.miller

Guest
So far I've been to 3 unicons - China, USA and Japan, at all three I
have taken part in some of the competitions. Also at all three I've
gone riding with interesting people in interesting places. In the US
some of those were "organised" muni rides while one was me wanting to
do the iron horse trail on my own including the tunnel so I could say
I'd done it.
In China I rode with the American muni bunch for the first time and
we explored a small patch of ground very thoughly finding lots of
single track and thorns with in a mile of the hotel, I also rode into
central beijing with a crowd of people one eveing and one day a group
of us arranged to hire a bus and driver and go out of town to a hilly
place. None of those were "organised" events, we just skipped off what
ever was organised and did our own thing some days.
In Japan, I did a solo tour of central Tokyo early sunday morning,
I had the streets to myself and got a glimse of innner city life
from the saddle of my 29er, baseball practise, people going to
worship at shrines, people gathering for exercise sessions, the
blind runnning club training and a HUGE car boot sale. Another couple
of days Paul and I went and did real touristly stuff manageing to see 6
of the top ten Tokyo tourist sights.
So I think what i'm trying to say in a round about kind of way is.
Unicon is more than the competitions, its about meeting other riders
from all over the world, hanging out in the evening and swapping
ideas, going for rides, beers, meals. Sure I love hockey and take THAT
competition seriously but all the others I don't take too seriously
,I'll enter some of the races, and maybe show up if I havn't got any
thing more intersting planned. I'll watch a bit of freestyle , maybe
a basket ball game or too, I probadly won't bother watching standard
skill or the kids 100m races, those are days I'll go off and explore.
For some other people, those are the serious days and the hockey is
the event they will ignore.
I believe our swiss hosts are trying hard to make unicon 2006 a
convention as well as a competition and I'm looking forward to seeing
some old friends and makeing some new ones during the event.

Sarah


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B

bbraf

Guest
joemarshall wrote:
> Cos I like riding with people much more than riding competitively. Also
> cos most of the competitions are boring ones, like track races or
> stupid ones like wheel walking with your nose for 200 metres, or comedy
> small wheel racing ...



You probably know that you insult people with your writing above. There
are lots of people who take these races seriously and prepare for them
with lots of trainings. BTW, WW is 30m (10m for U11) and not 200m. I
don't know how you wheel walk, but I'd rather use my feet and not my
nose ...

UNICON is not just about competition. It's also a convention, there are
workshops, we will be having non-competitive MUni and longdistance
rides with local riders to locations with memorable scenery that you
won't find on your own otherwise. We will be having local clubs
organizing swiss evenings to show you part of the swiss culture etc.
etc.


joemarshall wrote:
>
> The fact there aren't any proper muni races (if it's rideable on a
> road uni it isn't a muni race, if it's only downhill it's only
> measuring a third of your riding skills like Ken said) doesn't fill me
> with confidence as to the goodness of the muni riding planned either.


Above you write, that you don't like riding competitively. We have
planned to have daily non-competitive MUni rides. Further on we will be
having a -XC Unicycle Orienteering-, which is competitive, it is cross
country and you will be far better of using a MUni. *So it is a fact*,
that we have proper MUni rides. What exactly was your point here?


joemarshall wrote:
>
> To be honest though, ... , You get proper long courses with ups and
> downs, designed by experienced course designers, as opposed to
> something down the side of a hill that lasts for 5 minutes designed by
> someone who thinks that xc means rideable on a 20" street unicycle.
>


Where do get that one from? Have you ever been to the Gurten, have you
seen the course already. Inventing things (5mins, 20") and putting them
alongside with facts, doesn't make it true, sorry.

BTW, our Downhill course will be setup with the guys running the
Downhill course. Further on I don't think XC is a 5 mins race down a
hill on a 20".
I also don't understand, why you keep insulting the organizers of
UNICON XIII


joemarshall wrote:
>
> Yeah, so I'm only really considering coming along for the fun bits and
> going riding, but if everyone is going to be off doing backwards
> standup wheel walk 200 metres all the time then obviously I don't want
> to, which was why I was wondering if other people are coming along just
> to go riding like.
>



UNICON is a convention aimed at all unicyclists. It is aimed at the
freestylers, it is aimed at track racers, we have events for the trials
guys, we have street in the programme, it is also aimed at MUni and
long distance riders, we will be having three full days of hockey and
basketball. But it is also aimed at unicyclists that just like to see
other unicyclists and have a good time without being competitive.

If you really look at the programme, you will see that it is all there.
We do our best to make everyone happy, at least a bit. By doing so, I
learnt these month, you end up having everyone complaining ...

UNICON is not simply a MUni event , as you probably would like it to
be.

Best wishes,
Franz


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J

joemarshall

Guest
sarah.miller wrote:
> So far I've been to 3 unicons - China, USA and Japan, at all three I
> have taken part in some of the competitions. Also at all three I've
> gone riding with interesting people in interesting places. In the US
> some of those were "organised" muni rides while one was me wanting to
> do the iron horse trail on my own including the tunnel so I could say
> I'd done it.
> In China I rode with the American muni bunch for the first time and
> we explored a small patch of ground very thoughly finding lots of
> single track and thorns with in a mile of the hotel, I also rode into
> central beijing with a crowd of people one eveing and one day a group
> of us arranged to hire a bus and driver and go out of town to a hilly
> place. None of those were "organised" events, we just skipped off what
> ever was organised and did our own thing some days.
> In Japan, I did a solo....
> Sarah




Cool, that was exactly what I was trying to ask if anyone was likely to
be up for.

As for the muni events, I'm sure the downhill course is cool, looks
good from the site, but I do still think it's weird to only have
downhill and not have a cross country muni race, which is really the
'gold standard' for competitive muni riding. The XC downhill, it says
'rideable on a street unicycle', which presumably means one with a
slick tyre and it's still a downhill race and presumably run like a
downhill race ie. short and down a hill?

I don't mind that there's loads of other events I'm not interested in
though, that's always going to be the case in a big event, same as at
the BUC. I guess also there are always going to be events that seem
silly in a large athletics competition, like synchronized swimming at
the olympics.

Joe


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B

bbraf

Guest
joemarshall wrote:
> As for the muni events, I'm sure the downhill course is cool, looks good
> from the site, but I do still think it's weird to only have downhill
> and not have a cross country muni race, which is really the 'gold
> standard' for competitive muni riding. The XC downhill, it says
> 'rideable on a street unicycle', which presumably means one with a
> slick tyre



No it doesn't. A slick tire is **** for going down a hill like that. If
you're up and riding your wheel will slip off under you and then you
won't be able to get up again, because there is too little friction. I
would have thought everyone knows that a good knobby tire is what you
have to have, but you just have prooven me wrong. I will change that
bit of information, when I have some spare time.


joemarshall wrote:
> ... and it's still a downhill race and presumably run like a downhill
> race ie. short and down a hill?



I used to work in Cardiff. I think we have a terminology problem here.
In Wales I saw what you guys on the other side of the channel call a
hill and I saw what you consider a mountain. I can assure you that the
Gurten is not a hill in your terms. And consequently, it won't be short
either.

I wrote -XC Downhill -in the schedule of events, so that registrants
see that they have an alternative to the MUni Downhill. They both start
on top of the Gurten. Who said that the XC Course stops at the bottom
of the Gurten?

I will forward your concerns to the two persons being in charge of this
race, so that they can make sure the XC race on the Gurten really
deserves that name.
--
Franz


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G

GizmoDuck

Guest
Hi Franz,

We appreciate your help keeping us up to date and trying to keep
everyone happy. With such a big event, it's never possible to satisfy
everyone. As Unicyclists we have to be aware that most of these events
are run by volunteers, who give up their free time for the good of the
sport.

However, I think what Joe (and me also) was getting at earlier was that
the MUNI events at Unicons have not kept up with what people are doing
in the real world. If you took Japan Unicon 12 as an example, the XC
was only a 10min race. Most MUni riders tackle the same sorts of
terrain as mountainbikers, and enter mountainbike events, and 10min is
a pretty short sprint even on a unicycle! A MUni is only on average
20-40% slower than a mountainbike, which have races lasting 2-3hrs or
more. I would have thought a MUni race should be roughly 30-60min
minimum. The reasoning I was told for the short XC and DH race in
Japan was that it was to cater for the freestyle riders, many of whom
have never ridden MUNI. Which is great, except that this is the world
convention. Even recreational MUni riders typically ride for an hour
or more.

Anyway, thanks for your help with the XC Downhill event. Look forward
to it whatever form it takes.

BTW, Joe, I hope you make it to Unicon- would love to meet up.

Ken


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B

bbraf

Guest
GizmoDuck wrote:
> ... If you took Japan Unicon 12 as an example, the XC was only a 10min
> race. Most MUni riders tackle the same sorts of terrain as
> mountainbikers, and enter mountainbike events, and *10min is a pretty
> short sprint* even on a unicycle!




A 10 minute race is definitely not a sprint. Sprint distances are 100m
up to 400m, followed by Mittelstrecke (don't know the english term),
800m till 1 mile, everything above is long-distance. All this is
defined by the IAAF. The best riders in the world do the 400m on 24"
racing unicycles in just under a minute. 800m is done in just above 2
minutes on a racing uni. A 10 minute race is a long-distance race.


GizmoDuck wrote:
> I would have thought a MUni race should be roughly 30-60min minimum.




This is a proper requirement to put forward: XC race should last 30 to
60 minutes.

I was also told, that the uphill part should be about 20% to 30%, the
downhill about 20% to 40% of the whole race. And there should be a
considerable amount of singletrail.

Can you add to this list of requirements?

Have you yet considered that the amount of long-distance races at the
UNICON, contains already more events than it ever did? Apart from the
XC race, we will be having:



- 10km
- Marathon (42.195km, UNICON event for the first time)
- XC Unicycle Orienteering




And then there is the highly technical MUni Downhill as well.

I now feel that we start to overdo the long-distance part of the
UNICON. Any other ideas?

I see, you like these long-distance races, because you are good at
those. There are other voices, who request a 200m sprint, 3000m, other
age groups etc. Obviously, they claim that there are lot of people
interested in these, that spectators like to see these etc.

--
Franz


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G

GILD

Guest
bbraf wrote:
> Mittelstrecke



Middle-distance

And another word of thanx for all the work you're doing in keeping us
up to date with developments in the planning of Unicon 2006.

I don't think all the comments made on this thread are meant as
criticisms. They are simply thoughts and suggestions made by people as
passionate about the sport as you are.
If you take them as criticism, your hair will turn grey much sooner
than Unicon 2006 will turn it on it's own.

Keep up the good work.


--
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G

GizmoDuck

Guest
bbraf wrote:
> A 10 minute race is definitely not a sprint. Sprint distances are 100m
> up to 400m, followed by Mittelstrecke (don't know the english term),
> 800m till 1 mile, everything above is long-distance. All this is
> defined by the IAAF. The best riders in the world do the 400m on 24"
> racing unicycles in just under a minute. 800m is done in just above 2
> minutes on a racing uni. A 10 minute race is a long-distance race.
>
> This is a proper requirement to put forward: XC race should last 30 to
> 60 minutes.
>
> I was also told, that the uphill part should be about 20% to 30%, the
> downhill about 20% to 40% of the whole race. And there should be a
> considerable amount of singletrail.
>
> Can you add to this list of requirements?
>
> Have you yet considered that the amount of long-distance races at the
> UNICON, contains already more events than it ever did? Apart from the
> XC race, we will be having:
>
>
> > >

- 10km
- Marathon (42.195km, UNICON event for the first time)
- XC Unicycle Orienteering
>
>
>
>
> And then there is the highly technical MUni Downhill as well.
>
> I now feel that we start to overdo the long-distance part of the
> UNICON. Any other ideas?
>
> I see, you like these long-distance races, because you are good at
> those. There are other voices, who request a 200m sprint, 3000m,
> other age groups etc. Obviously, they claim that there are lot of
> people interested in these, that spectators like to see these etc.
>
> --
> Franz




Like I said in my post, it's not possible to satisfy everyone ;), but
thanks for trying.

The fact I ride long distances has nothing to do with what I'm saying
about the MUNI events being too short. I came third in the 10min XC
and also the Downhill in Japan, and I don't think I would have done
better if they were longer. What I'm saying is that they don't reflect
real world MUNI riding.

Ok, so maybe a 10min XC race is not quite a sprint, but I don't
consider it MUNI either. How many MUnicyclists would go riding for
10min and consider that a satisfying ride? You don't get very far in
10min. It's not a criticism of UNICON 13- but I think it carries over
from previous UNICONs. But people are now riding further and longer
than they have in the past. Where MUNI was something that
freestyle/racing unicyclists did as a novelty, it's now a discipline in
it's own right. I don't know many MUNI riders who drive out to the
trails and go for a 10min ride and then go home.

I also don't think the long distance part of UNICON is overdone:
Track and field/ Short distance events:
100m
400m
800m
4x100m Relay
?MUNI

Medium distance:
10km
MUNI?

Long distance:
Marathon (42.195km, UNICON event for the first time)
XC Unicycle Orienteering

Also, I wasn't advocating for adding more long distance events, all I
was saying was that the existing MUNI events should be lenghtened to
reflect what MUNI riders do.

And the IAAF is for athletics- unicycling is more efficient that
running- you can go farther and hence distances can be longer by
comparison.

But hey, these are just my opinions and some suggestions. You're
organising the event, it's up to you how you want to run it and what
events are included. Like you said, there are probably plenty of
(?freestyle) riders who like short distance MUNI races.

Ken


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G

GizmoDuck

Guest
GILD wrote:
> Middle-distance
>
> And another word of thanx for all the work you're doing in keeping us
> up to date with developments in the planning of Unicon 2006.
>
> I don't think all the comments made on this thread are meant as
> criticisms. They are simply thoughts and suggestions made by people as
> passionate about the sport as you are.
> If you take them as criticism, your hair will turn grey much sooner
> than Unicon 2006 will turn it on it's own.
>
> Keep up the good work.




And I certainly hope that my comments aren't taken as criticisms, but
that they reflect what most of the MUNI riders I know do in their
sport.


--
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