Re: UPGRADING AN OLDER BIKE

Thanks very much to all of you that have written in with the very
helpful info. It really gives me something to take some time and look
at. It all makes a lot of sense and even now I have a pretty good idea
of what I'm going to slow down and do. Here in the next few days I'll
let you know how things are going. Please stay in touch with anything
else you have and I'll do the same thing. I'll have a lot of questions
as time goes by.
Thanks again,
Bob

Sheldon, you're right, it's a seven speed, with all components being
SUNTOUR GPX. Are they still in business? Will it make a difference that
they aren't SHIMANO? Like your idea of the new handlebar stem and STI
kit. That's probably all I'd want to do.
Thanks again and stay in touch.
Bob

biker bob said:

it's a seven speed, with all components being
SUNTOUR GPX. Are they still in business? Will it make a difference that
they aren't SHIMANO?

Alas, SunTour is no more. You can try using your SunTour rear der with the
STI levers. Creative attachment of the shift cable to the der may allow it
to work.

But if not, ANY modern Shimano derailleur such as the inexpensive Sora or
Tiagra will work fine.

Art Harris

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 09:50:49 -0500, "Arthur Harris" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

biker bob said:

it's a seven speed, with all components being
SUNTOUR GPX. Are they still in business? Will it make a difference that
they aren't SHIMANO?

Alas, SunTour is no more. You can try using your SunTour rear der with the
STI levers. Creative attachment of the shift cable to the der may allow it
to work.

But if not, ANY modern Shimano derailleur such as the inexpensive Sora or
Tiagra will work fine.

Art Harris

Will this require a new rear wheel to hold a Shimano cassette if he is
switching to STI? Maybe his wheel is for a freewheel. Are 7-speed
Shimano freewheels still around? Or by 1989, was Suntour compatible
with Shimano indexing?

Dan Daniel said:

Quoted message said:

biker bob said:

it's a seven speed, with all components being
SUNTOUR GPX. Are they still in business? Will it make a difference that
they aren't SHIMANO?

Alas, SunTour is no more. You can try using your SunTour rear der with the
STI levers. Creative attachment of the shift cable to the der may allow it
to work.

But if not, ANY modern Shimano derailleur such as the inexpensive Sora or
Tiagra will work fine.

Art Harris

Will this require a new rear wheel to hold a Shimano cassette if he is
switching to STI? Maybe his wheel is for a freewheel. Are 7-speed
Shimano freewheels still around? Or by 1989, was Suntour compatible
with Shimano indexing?

His existing wheel and freewheel (7 speed) with work fine with the 7-speed
STI levers. Yes, Shimano 7-speed freewheels are still around, but even a
SunTour freewheel should work.

Art Harris

Thanks again, Art, Dan, Sheldon and the others for your comments. I
went for a short ride yesterday after making minor adjustments to the
rear brakes and front derailer. I was amazed at how well everything
worked. I'm thinking now about taking it back to the dealer where I
bought it and just getting it cleaned up and serviced and tuned up,
etc., and riding it that way for a while until I decide exactly what to
do. I will inquire about a longer handlebar stem and do that now if
they have something in stock, but was wondering what all I should have
them do now as far a maintenance goes. I would think that with
everything stock and original, (tires, tubes, grease, cables, etc, )
that all that should be serviced. 'The tires don't even appear to be
cracked.
What are your thoughts on the maintenance for now?

Thanks again,
Bob

Biker Bob said:

What are your thoughts on the maintenance for now?

New brake cables and pads. Modern housings have a lot less friction,
giving more braking power. And the inexpensive Kool Stop Salmon
"Continental" pads are a favorite of many here for their immunity to
picking up grit.
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakeshoes.html#continental

If the tires aren't worn or cracked, no need to replace them. Tubes
last forever.

If the seat post and stem haven't been moved in 12 years, they may be
stuck. I'd check and grease both.

Hubs and BB may need to be re-packed with grease.

Check wheel tightness and true.
New cushioned handlebar tape (I like Profile).

Art Harris

On 2 Jan 2005 06:20:34 -0800, "biker bob" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Thanks again, Art, Dan, Sheldon and the others for your comments. I
went for a short ride yesterday after making minor adjustments to the
rear brakes and front derailer. I was amazed at how well everything
worked. I'm thinking now about taking it back to the dealer where I
bought it and just getting it cleaned up and serviced and tuned up,
etc., and riding it that way for a while until I decide exactly what to
do. I will inquire about a longer handlebar stem and do that now if
they have something in stock, but was wondering what all I should have
them do now as far a maintenance goes. I would think that with
everything stock and original, (tires, tubes, grease, cables, etc, )
that all that should be serviced. 'The tires don't even appear to be
cracked.
What are your thoughts on the maintenance for now?

Thanks again,
Bob

Along with Art's recommendations-

Make sure the headset is properly adjusted. Might be good to have it
cleaned out. When I have acquired old steel bikes, half of the time
the headset is beat because of lack of maintenance and bad adjustment.
The other half have had fine headsets that I just cleaned and
regreased.

Considering what you are planning to do- ride for a bit and then
decide how you want to upgrade- *do not* let them put on a new chain.
The chain, chainwheels, and rear cogs form a matched set over time
from wear, and changing one part can mean having to change all the
parts. Wait until you are sure what is going to happen to your drive
train before you change any parts.

I'll repeat what Art said on the brakes- new cables, housing, and
pads. Don't even think twice about getting this done.

Quoted message said:

Will this require a new rear wheel to hold a Shimano cassette if he is
switching to STI? Maybe his wheel is for a freewheel. Are 7-speed
Shimano freewheels still around? Or by 1989, was Suntour compatible
with Shimano indexing?

Boy, I'm really sounding like the party-pooper here!

#1: Suntour & Shimano cogs had different spacing, with Shimano basically
running the same spacing from top-to-bottom, while Suntour used wider
spacing for the first couple of cogs. They do not interchange nicely; this
was a common issue in the way-back days when people thought they would. You
can make them sorta work, but not very well.

Suntour later on came out with a series of cassettes (not freewheels, to the
best of my recollection) with Shimano-like spacing, which meant that
Suntour now had equipment that wasn't compatible with itself. Sigh.

#1b: But... if you've got a freehweel, not cassette, you're in luck. Because
you can still get a (limited) selection of 7-speed Shimano freewheels. Well,
it might be that all you can get is a 14-28, but that isn't bad. So if
you've got a Suntour *freehweel* wheel, you're much better off and won't
have to replace the wheel. You may have to respace it though, as I don't
think you can fit a standard 7-speed freewheel onto your present setup (it
was probably a "narrow" Suntour freewheel).

#2: Sheldon doesn't think you need to change your brakes, but my experience
is that the Soras, which are made for the leverage of a dual-pivot brake,
will definitely work better with the proper brakes than with the
single-pivot models that Suntour used back in the day.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Dan Daniel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 09:50:49 -0500, "Arthur Harris" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

biker bob said:

it's a seven speed, with all components being
SUNTOUR GPX. Are they still in business? Will it make a difference that
they aren't SHIMANO?

Alas, SunTour is no more. You can try using your SunTour rear der with the
STI levers. Creative attachment of the shift cable to the der may allow it
to work.

But if not, ANY modern Shimano derailleur such as the inexpensive Sora or
Tiagra will work fine.

Art Harris

Will this require a new rear wheel to hold a Shimano cassette if he is
switching to STI? Maybe his wheel is for a freewheel. Are 7-speed
Shimano freewheels still around? Or by 1989, was Suntour compatible
with Shimano indexing?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

... if you want to upgrade to the STI shifting, where you have the
shifting & braking integrated into the same lever, you may need to make
more changes to your bike than is really practical, cost-wise (STI
levers, dual-pivot brakes if you don't have them already, possible new
rear wheel if it won't accommodate at least a 7-speed index-compatible
cassette, and, if front shifting is a priority, either new chainrings or
a crankset... in addition to front & rear derailleurs).

That's not reasonable. A 1989 bike is already gonna be 7-speed, and I'm
pretty sure it was Shimano equipped.

If so, all he needs is a new handlebar stem, such as a Nitto Technomic,
($40); a Sora 7-speed STI kit ($130) and new handlebar tape.

Sheldon: The brakes are, in all likelihood, single-pivot. Yes, they'll sorta
work, but the Soras are made for the leverage of the currently-common
dual-pivot brakes. And I'll stick by my recommendation that, with Shimano
STI, front shifting will definitely be better with ramped & pinned
chainrings. Will it sorta work? Sure, maybe. Will it work as well as stuff
that's made to work together? Absolutely not. Even the front derailleur has
changed significantly vs pre-STI, with most (not all) of the older ones
pushing out and forward (the arm is at an angle not perpendicular to the
bike).

So I'll respectfully disagree with your statement-

Quoted message said:

There's no earthly reason to replace the brake calipers, rear wheel,
cassette, chainrings or either derailer unless these parts are worn out or
otherwise damaged.

It all depends upon what the customer is looking for. In my book, what he's
got isn't so terribly bad, but the "improvements" you're suggesting don't
bring it up to modern standards, so he still might be that far away from
something he'd really like. Or not. It depends upon what he might like to
spend his money on. In any event, he should try one of the new-fangled
machines to see what's happened over the years, and figure out if it makes
sense for him to spend the money.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

An anonymous poster said:

Quoted message said:

I'm 60 years old and haven't ridden in about 12 years. I have a 1989
Specialized Allez that is in excellent shape and instead of buying
something new, I'm thinking about upgrading this bike. I would like a
more upright sitting position, brakes and shifters easier to reach
without moving your hands everytime you want to shift or brake, and
possibly a new saddle. I've really lost knowledge of what's out there
now days or what the feasibility is of doing this. Hate to give up a
good bike that fits me and that I really like, but don't want to spent
big bucks and then really be uncomfortable on it anyway.

The older lugged steel Specialized bikes such as the Allez were absolutely
gorgeous frames, definitely a keeper!

A usually reliable source replied.

Quoted message said:

... if you want to upgrade to the STI shifting, where you have the
shifting & braking integrated into the same lever, you may need to make
more changes to your bike than is really practical, cost-wise (STI
levers, dual-pivot brakes if you don't have them already, possible new
rear wheel if it won't accommodate at least a 7-speed index-compatible
cassette, and, if front shifting is a priority, either new chainrings or
a crankset... in addition to front & rear derailleurs).

That's not reasonable. A 1989 bike is already gonna be 7-speed, and I'm
pretty sure it was Shimano equipped.

If so, all he needs is a new handlebar stem, such as a Nitto Technomic,
($40); a Sora 7-speed STI kit ($130) and new handlebar tape.

There's no earthly reason to replace the brake calipers, rear wheel,
cassette, chainrings or either derailer unless these parts are worn out or
otherwise damaged.

Sheldon "Not That Expensive" Brown
+-----------------------------------------+
| Immigration is not a problem to solve, |
| but a sign of a successful nation. |
| --George W. Bush |
+-----------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Sheldon Brown said:

An anonymous poster said:

Quoted message said:

I'm 60 years old and haven't ridden in about 12 years. I have a 1989
Specialized Allez that is in excellent shape and instead of buying
something new, I'm thinking about upgrading this bike. I would like
a more upright sitting position, brakes and shifters easier to reach
without moving your hands everytime you want to shift or brake, and
possibly a new saddle. I've really lost knowledge of what's out
there now days or what the feasibility is of doing this. Hate to
give up a good bike that fits me and that I really like, but don't
want to spent big bucks and then really be uncomfortable on it
anyway.

The older lugged steel Specialized bikes such as the Allez were
absolutely gorgeous frames, definitely a keeper!

Indeed they were, and many people feel the same way about them. I've seen a
couple fetch prices on eBay that would easily fund a fancy new hybrid plus some
change. So if you *do* feel inclined to buy new, you're in a good position.

I'd just upgrade the trusty old steed though. Then if you get fitter and faster
and want something racier again, you can just switch everything back.

Matt O.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Will this require a new rear wheel to hold a Shimano cassette if he is
switching to STI? Maybe his wheel is for a freewheel. Are 7-speed
Shimano freewheels still around? Or by 1989, was Suntour compatible
with Shimano indexing?

Boy, I'm really sounding like the party-pooper here!

#1: Suntour & Shimano cogs had different spacing, with Shimano basically
running the same spacing from top-to-bottom, while Suntour used wider
spacing for the first couple of cogs. They do not interchange nicely; this
was a common issue in the way-back days when people thought they would. You
can make them sorta work, but not very well.

Suntour later on came out with a series of cassettes (not freewheels, to the
best of my recollection) with Shimano-like spacing, which meant that
Suntour now had equipment that wasn't compatible with itself. Sigh.

#1b: But... if you've got a freehweel, not cassette, you're in luck. Because
you can still get a (limited) selection of 7-speed Shimano freewheels. Well,
it might be that all you can get is a 14-28, but that isn't bad. So if
you've got a Suntour *freehweel* wheel, you're much better off and won't
have to replace the wheel. You may have to respace it though, as I don't
think you can fit a standard 7-speed freewheel onto your present setup (it
was probably a "narrow" Suntour freewheel).

Why I even asked was because of my own experience that Shimano and
Suntour are basically incompatible. I read and hear of exceptions all
the time, but I also have seen and heard (and had to do myself) people
simply throwing out the Suntour or Shimano side in order to get things
to work because they flat-out would not work together. I think it is
best to assume that they *won't* work together. Try new parts one step
at a time nd maybe he'll be lucky. But he should go into it with a
budget that assumes a full change-over.

Quoted message said:

#2: Sheldon doesn't think you need to change your brakes, but my experience
is that the Soras, which are made for the leverage of a dual-pivot brake,
will definitely work better with the proper brakes than with the
single-pivot models that Suntour used back in the day.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

I don't know the geometry of the Allez, but many steel bikes from the
'80s were designed for 'standard' or long reach brakes. If he does
switch to newer ones he'll have to figure this out.

Local bike mechanics have saved me so many headaches and so much money
when I have dealt with these '80s transitional bikes. A quick look, a
measurement or two, and they send me down the right path.

Thanks again for all the info. The brakes are dual-pivot sidepull
caliper by SunTour. Have pretty well decided to take the bike back to
my dealer for a complete service and cleanup and maybe a longer
handlebar stem. Then ride for a while a see how things go. Will also
ride some of the new stuff, as mentioned above, and see what it's
really like. They sell Trek and Specialized. One interesting model is
the Globe from Specialized. A bike actually set up for touring. Don't
see that very much anymore. Don't know if Trek has anything similar or
not. If you know anything about these, pass it on.
Thanks again for all the help,
Bob

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

... if you want to upgrade to the STI shifting, where you have the
shifting & braking integrated into the same lever, you may need to make
more changes to your bike than is really practical, cost-wise (STI
levers, dual-pivot brakes if you don't have them already, possible new
rear wheel if it won't accommodate at least a 7-speed index-compatible
cassette, and, if front shifting is a priority, either new chainrings or
a crankset... in addition to front & rear derailleurs).

I replied:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's not reasonable. A 1989 bike is already gonna be 7-speed, and I'm
pretty sure it was Shimano equipped.

If so, all he needs is a new handlebar stem, such as a Nitto Technomic,
($40); a Sora 7-speed STI kit ($130) and new handlebar tape.

Sheldon: The brakes are, in all likelihood, single-pivot. Yes, they'll sorta
work, but the Soras are made for the leverage of the currently-common
dual-pivot brakes.

Modern "aero-type" brake levers, whether with or without shifters,
actually provide slightly _more_ mechanical advantage than the old
exposed-cable levers. If that's what he's got, the braking will be
notably _improved_ by using modern levers.

Quoted message said:

And I'll stick by my recommendation that, with Shimano
STI, front shifting will definitely be better with ramped & pinned
chainrings. Will it sorta work? Sure, maybe. Will it work as well as stuff
that's made to work together? Absolutely not. Even the front derailleur has
changed significantly vs pre-STI, with most (not all) of the older ones
pushing out and forward (the arm is at an angle not perpendicular to the
bike).

STI conversion can be quite tricky on a bike with a triple chainwheel,
but if memory serves this bike has a double. Doubles are WAY less
finicky about that sort of thing.

If he really feels the needs for pins and ramps, we have ramped/pinned
52 tooth 130 BCD chainrings starting at $14.95, so that's hardly a deal
breaker. (There are no ramps/pins, nor any use for them, on the inner
chainring.)

A suitable front derailer can be had for $22, but I very much doubt that
he'll need one.

Quoted message said:

So I'll respectfully disagree with your statement-

Quoted message said:

There's no earthly reason to replace the brake calipers, rear wheel,
cassette, chainrings or either derailer unless these parts are worn out or
otherwise damaged.

It all depends upon what the customer is looking for. In my book, what he's
got isn't so terribly bad,

If it's one of those lugged steel Allezes, that's a major understatment
in my book, those were super frames.

Quoted message said:

but the "improvements" you're suggesting don't
bring it up to modern standards, so he still might be that far away from
something he'd really like. Or not.

He liked it in 1989, why wouldn't he like it today?

Quoted message said:

It depends upon what he might like to
spend his money on. In any event, he should try one of the new-fangled
machines to see what's happened over the years, and figure out if it makes
sense for him to spend the money.

Sure, trying things is good, but he should make an informed choice based
on a realistic cost estimate. A new _frame_ as nice as the one he has
is gonna cost him a grand...

Sheldon "Not Even A Specialized Dealer" Brown
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| It is good to learn from your mistakes; |
| It is better to learn from the mistakes of others. |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Yes it's a lugged frame Allez, 7 cogs, 2 chain wheels, open cable
duel-pivot side pull brakes, 58cm frame. I'll let you know maybe late
tomorrow what my dealer had to offer as far as changes. I'll also take
some of the info you guys have given me.

Thanks,
Bob

Sheldon's snippets are indented with a single >, while my prior snippets are
indented with a >>.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sheldon: The brakes are, in all likelihood, single-pivot. Yes, they'll
sorta work, but the Soras are made for the leverage of the
currently-common dual-pivot brakes.

Modern "aero-type" brake levers, whether with or without shifters,
actually provide slightly _more_ mechanical advantage than the old
exposed-cable levers. If that's what he's got, the braking will be
notably _improved_ by using modern levers.

Sounds like he might actually be describing cantilevers, since he's calling
them "open cable dual pivot."

Quoted message said:

He liked it in 1989, why wouldn't he like it today?

Oh dear; I *loved* my Cinelli in 1974. That bike took me all manner of
places, and I raced my heart off on it. That bike, as they say, had a soul.
It now lives on as my rain bike, and I daresay I don't enjoy it anywhere
near as much as my Trek 5900. It rides like a rock (despite a
considerably-longer wheelbase), is noticeably heavier, and, as I've kept it
pretty retro (seems appropriate), it's got Campy Nuovo Record derailleurs. I
did replace the front brake with a long-reach Shimano dual-pivot, as I found
that, while I can put up with the ride, and I can live (barely) with the
shifting, the braking may very well have become something that could have
been difficult to live with, in a literal sense.

So, if I have such disdain for the way the bike rides, why do I ride it?
Partly because it deserves better than to rust away in the garage, and
partly because the simplicity of the older components are such that all I
have to do is lube the chain with oil before taking it out in the rain, and
if it rains hard enough, it comes back clean! But mostly it's
sentimentality, and it's not like I'm racing anybody when it's 40 degrees
and pouring rain. It's more about laughing at the absurd.

I have a fondness for classic lugged bikes, but it's entirely from an
aesthetic standpoint. I much prefer the ride of a modern lightweight bike,
whether the frame is Reynolds 853 or OCLV carbon 110. I'm also one of those
people who have bought into the idea that carbon forks give a smoother ride.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It depends upon what he might like to spend his money on. In any event,
he should try one of the new-fangled machines to see what's happened over
the years, and figure out if it makes sense for him to spend the money.

Sure, trying things is good, but he should make an informed choice based
on a realistic cost estimate. A new _frame_ as nice as the one he has is
gonna cost him a grand...

A new frame that *looks* as nice would cost him at least a grand, no
question. But as much as we've driven away the aesthetics in modern frames,
we've also seen dramatic improvements in durability (compare how few '853
frames you see with crumpled downtubes to '531 or equivalent?), lower weight
and, in real dollars, substantially lower cost.

If it's all about aesthetics, keep the old bike. But most people with older
bikes will be quite surprised at what's available in the $800 (whole bike,
not just frame) range these days, in terms of function. And the choices have
become endless, as every manufacturer is trying to carve a piece of the road
bike market for themselves these days. If you just get past the strange
labels, there are all manner of bikes suitable for touring, sport riding,
cross, whatever.

The toughest thing the OP is going to have to deal with is finding somebody
at a shop who understands his dream about how he'd like to ride. So often
there's a disconnect between the customer and staff such that the right bike
might be right underneath their nose but nobody sees it.

If the OP were to come into my store, I'd likely suggest that he minimize
expenditures on anything other than fit. Get the current bike set up so it's
enjoyable to ride, fall in love with cycling (again) and then figure out
what sort of money you want to allocate to either upgrades or a new bike.

Quoted message said:

Sheldon "Not Even A Specialized Dealer" Brown

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

>... if you want to upgrade to the STI shifting, where you have the
>shifting & braking integrated into the same lever, you may need to make
>more changes to your bike than is really practical, cost-wise (STI
>levers, dual-pivot brakes if you don't have them already, possible new
>rear wheel if it won't accommodate at least a 7-speed index-compatible
>cassette, and, if front shifting is a priority, either new chainrings or
>a crankset... in addition to front & rear derailleurs).

I replied:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's not reasonable. A 1989 bike is already gonna be 7-speed, and I'm
pretty sure it was Shimano equipped.

If so, all he needs is a new handlebar stem, such as a Nitto Technomic,
($40); a Sora 7-speed STI kit ($130) and new handlebar tape.

Sheldon: The brakes are, in all likelihood, single-pivot. Yes, they'll
sorta work, but the Soras are made for the leverage of the
currently-common dual-pivot brakes.

Modern "aero-type" brake levers, whether with or without shifters,
actually provide slightly _more_ mechanical advantage than the old
exposed-cable levers. If that's what he's got, the braking will be
notably _improved_ by using modern levers.

Quoted message said:

And I'll stick by my recommendation that, with Shimano STI, front
shifting will definitely be better with ramped & pinned chainrings. Will
it sorta work? Sure, maybe. Will it work as well as stuff that's made to
work together? Absolutely not. Even the front derailleur has changed
significantly vs pre-STI, with most (not all) of the older ones pushing
out and forward (the arm is at an angle not perpendicular to the bike).

STI conversion can be quite tricky on a bike with a triple chainwheel, but
if memory serves this bike has a double. Doubles are WAY less finicky
about that sort of thing.

If he really feels the needs for pins and ramps, we have ramped/pinned 52
tooth 130 BCD chainrings starting at $14.95, so that's hardly a deal
breaker. (There are no ramps/pins, nor any use for them, on the inner
chainring.)

A suitable front derailer can be had for $22, but I very much doubt that
he'll need one.

Quoted message said:

So I'll respectfully disagree with your statement-

Quoted message said:

There's no earthly reason to replace the brake calipers, rear wheel,
cassette, chainrings or either derailer unless these parts are worn out
or otherwise damaged.

It all depends upon what the customer is looking for. In my book, what
he's got isn't so terribly bad,

If it's one of those lugged steel Allezes, that's a major understatment in
my book, those were super frames.

Quoted message said:

but the "improvements" you're suggesting don't bring it up to modern
standards, so he still might be that far away from something he'd really
like. Or not.

He liked it in 1989, why wouldn't he like it today?

Quoted message said:

It depends upon what he might like to spend his money on. In any event,
he should try one of the new-fangled machines to see what's happened over
the years, and figure out if it makes sense for him to spend the money.

Sure, trying things is good, but he should make an informed choice based
on a realistic cost estimate. A new _frame_ as nice as the one he has is
gonna cost him a grand...

Sheldon "Not Even A Specialized Dealer" Brown
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| It is good to learn from your mistakes; |
| It is better to learn from the mistakes of others. |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

biker bob said:

Yes it's a lugged frame Allez, 7 cogs, 2 chain wheels, open cable
duel-pivot side pull brakes, 58cm frame. I'll let you know maybe late
tomorrow what my dealer had to offer as far as changes. I'll also take
some of the info you guys have given me.

Look, this things just going to cost you a bunch of money. It's worthless
without the 9 or 10 speed rear hubs and STI and all that'll cost you a fortune
to change. Just send it to me, I'll pay shipping and take this burden off your
hands.

Ron

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The brakes are, in all likelihood, single-pivot. Yes, they'll
sorta work, but the Soras are made for the leverage of the
currently-common dual-pivot brakes.

I said:

Quoted message said:

Modern "aero-type" brake levers, whether with or without shifters,
actually provide slightly _more_ mechanical advantage than the old
exposed-cable levers. If that's what he's got, the braking will be
notably _improved_ by using modern levers.

Mike J.

Quoted message said:

Sounds like he might actually be describing cantilevers, since he's calling
them "open cable dual pivot."

I didn't say "open cable dual pivot." The Allez had caliper brakes, but
I can't recall whether it had "aero" type brake levers or the older
style where cable housing exits the top of the lever and arches over the
handlebars. Remember those? 1989 was about the time of the transition
to those.

There is absolutely no foundation in the contention that newer brake
levers in any way require dual-pivot sidepulls. I was surprised to see
this from this usually quite reliable source.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He liked it in 1989, why wouldn't he like it today?

Mike:

Quoted message said:

If it's all about aesthetics, keep the old bike. But most people with older
bikes will be quite surprised at what's available in the $800 (whole bike,
not just frame) range these days, in terms of function. And the choices have
become endless, as every manufacturer is trying to carve a piece of the road
bike market for themselves these days. If you just get past the strange
labels, there are all manner of bikes suitable for touring, sport riding,
cross, whatever.

Sure, but if the OP sinks $200-300 on STIfying and re-fitting his great
old bike, he'll wind up with a great bike and still have $500-600 left
over to spend on Shostakovich CDs or single-malt scotch.

Sheldon "I'd Go For The CDs" Brown
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Check out the Shostakovich 24 Preludes & Fugues for Piano, Op. 87. |
| Sort of like "Das Wohltemperierte Klavier" on drugs. Way cool! |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Update on the Allez. Took it to the shop yesterday primarily for a
service and tune up and maybe new brakes. Have also raised the
handlebars 2" and looked at new handlebar stems with different angles.
Want to use mine first before I make anymore changes. They are familiar
with what I might do as far as updates and are willing to do anything I
might want to try. I just want to ride what I have for now and see
where that takes me. With my limited knowledge right now, I sure don't
want to screw anything up. Too bad I'm not on the left or right coast
so I could have one of you guys look things over and work some minor
magic on it. Right now the single malt sounds like a pretty good thing.
Thanks again for the input!!!
Bob