Re: Way, way OT: PC stuff/rant

"Julia Altshuler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Even if the law is on your side, your best bet is to put up a fence ...

Julia...please. Don't ever, EVER suggest that someone buy a fence to keep
someone's dog away. Please? Fences are expensive. There's absolutely no
reason why a normal person should have to spend money to deal with the
actions of a dog criminal.

Doug Kanter said:

Julia...please. Don't ever, EVER suggest that someone buy a fence to keep
someone's dog away. Please? Fences are expensive. There's absolutely no
reason why a normal person should have to spend money to deal with the
actions of a dog criminal.

I'm operating on the assumption that Michael is a capable adult who can
make up his own mind as to whether or not he wishes to take my advice.

There is one good reason why a normal person should have to spend money
to deal with the actions of a criminal: That's the way the world works.

I have to spend money on locks for my home and car though I'm not a
criminal. That's the way the world works. More expensive than that, my
taxes pay for a whole criminal justice system including police,
detectives, police stations, police cars, police weapons, courts,
judges, lawyers, jails, parole officers. Do I like having to pay for
all that? No! Is there any reason why I, a normal, law-abiding,
dog-owning, citizen should have to? Well, um, yeah, sort of. THAT'S
THE WAY THE WORLD WORKS. Like it or not, this is the system we're stuck
with. If I don't like someone else's dog [censored] on my property (I
always pick up after my dog but honestly don't mind other people's dogs
that much; other things bother me but not that), my choices are:

Get local police involved (an option explored in my last post).
Retaliate (thus escalating the problem without solving it).
Take out anger on the dog. (Abhorrent.)
Work to get local laws changed (Personally, I've got better things to do).
Put up an expensive fence that you really don't like having to do and
shouldn't have to.

If there's a better solution (and I mentioned the humane trap
possibility), let me know. I'm all ears.

--Lia

"Julia Altshuler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doug Kanter said:

Julia...please. Don't ever, EVER suggest that someone buy a fence to keep
someone's dog away. Please? Fences are expensive. There's absolutely no
reason why a normal person should have to spend money to deal with the
actions of a dog criminal.

I'm operating on the assumption that Michael is a capable adult who can
make up his own mind as to whether or not he wishes to take my advice.

There is one good reason why a normal person should have to spend money to
deal with the actions of a criminal: That's the way the world works.

I have to spend money on locks for my home and car though I'm not a
criminal. That's the way the world works.

In the case of the dog criminal, the identity of the perpetrator is usually
evident. What makes it difficult to deal with them is that animal control
people are either lazy do-nothings, or they think they only need to focus on
animals that are dangerous. This allows them to do less work, since the vast
majority of dogs are only an annoyance, not an immediate safety hazard.

If a normal person is to obtain a fence, it should be paid for by the dog
criminal. Around here, a 40x40 foot chain link fence with gate, properly
installed, costs between $2500 and $3500. There's simply no reason for the
innocent to foot that bill.

Quoted message said:

Take out anger on the dog. (Abhorrent.)

I know it's quite a mental leap to consider this, but do so if possible: The
dog is, in fact, the only problem. The dog trains the owner to do things
they would not normally do. We humans don't like to admit that we can be
conditioned by an animal, especially since some of us believe that a deity
created us to be superior to all other creatures. But, the fact is, many dog
owners do not want their yard full of dog [censored] left by their own dog. So,
when the dog indicates that it's time to go outside, the dog owner obeys and
walks the thing. The dog owner is therefore conditioned, and is no different
than a lab rat trained to push a button when a bell rings. If the human
decides instead to chain the dog to a tree in the yard, the reward is rather
disgusting. So, the human choses the easy way out.

Conclusion: Eliminate the dog, humanely if possible.

Julia Altshuler said:

If there's a better solution (and I mentioned the humane trap
possibility), let me know. I'm all ears.

Motion-activated sprinkler. I've got one and they work. Nobody likes
getting hit with a stream of cold water... except maybe a duck. If
you've got problem ducks, you're pretty much screwed.

Best regards,
Bob

Julia Altshuler <[email hidden]> looking for trouble wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

If I understand the original rant correctly, the bare facts are these:
Michael made a U-turn, and the [censored] yelled insults at him. Michael, am
I right? Is that it? Was the U-turn legal given the traffic
regulations on the street? May I assume that it was, at least, safe?

I'm trying to put myself in the place of the police, and I'm thinking
that there won't be a great deal they can do about a woman who yells
insults at someone on a public street. That's not to say that I like
this lady or that I think she's right or sane or a fit mother, only that
she probably hasn't broken a law. Even if the U-turn wasn't allowed,
there's not much the police can do to issue a ticket on the say-so of an
observer. I imagine the police would call that one a nuisance call. If
you have reason to believe she plans to act on a threat, that's another
story.

I have much the same thing to say as regards to dogs running loose and
messing on other people's property. What are the local regulations as
far as letting dogs run loose and picking up after them? Even if the
law is on your side, your best bet is to put up a fence or grit your
teeth and bear it. The police probably won't think your complaints
about a dog are their top priority. Dog lover here doesn't like any
solution that takes out anger on the dog.

There might be a solution in getting a humane trap and taking the dog to
the local humane society. Check to make sure yours works like this:
They don't actually kill the stray; they just charge the owners
increasing amounts of money to get their dog back. For this tactic to
work, you have to come across as very concerned for the dog's safety,
quite harmless yourself, and maybe just a little dotty. You give the
dog to the humane society while murmuring about how you're so worried
that poor little doggie might get hit by a car and how glad you are to
do a favor for poor little doggie. If all goes well, Idiot Neighbor
can't do much to you since you only trap her dog when he's on your
property and finally learns that it is a lot cheaper to mind her own dog.

--Lia

Gawds, please email me with this. Yes it was a safe U-turn. Thank you so
much for your concern. I will certainly listen to your advice. Especially
about the dog. We have already taken in a cat because the neighbors don't
want her. They want to take her to a farm now. Well, she is safe, happy
and loved here.

Michael

--
....Bacteria: The rear entrance to a cafeteria.

All gramatical errors and misspellings due to Ramsey the cyber kitten. He
now owns all keyboards and computing devices in the household and has the
final say on what is, or is not, posted.
Send email to dog30 at charter dot net

"zxcvbob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Julia Altshuler said:

If there's a better solution (and I mentioned the humane trap
possibility), let me know. I'm all ears.

Motion-activated sprinkler. I've got one and they work. Nobody likes
getting hit with a stream of cold water... except maybe a duck. If
you've got problem ducks, you're pretty much screwed.

Best regards,
Bob

I hear this suggestion a lot, but it only works half the time. The other
half the time, it's winter and the hose becomes a stick. :-)

Michael 'Dog3' Lonergan said:

Gawds, please email me with this. Yes it was a safe U-turn. Thank you so
much for your concern. I will certainly listen to your advice. Especially
about the dog. We have already taken in a cat because the neighbors don't
want her. They want to take her to a farm now. Well, she is safe, happy
and loved here.

You can email me. The address above is unmunged. Make sure the subject
line is the same as the one in the thread so I don't delete
automatically thinking a private message from a human is spam.

There's good information on dog law too over at rec.pets.dogs.behavior.
I get most of my ideas from them.

--Lia

Julia Altshuler <[email hidden]> looking for trouble wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Doug Kanter said:

Julia...please. Don't ever, EVER suggest that someone buy a fence to
keep someone's dog away. Please? Fences are expensive. There's
absolutely no reason why a normal person should have to spend money
to deal with the actions of a dog criminal.

I'm operating on the assumption that Michael is a capable adult who
can make up his own mind as to whether or not he wishes to take my
advice.

There is one good reason why a normal person should have to spend
money to deal with the actions of a criminal: That's the way the
world works.

I have to spend money on locks for my home and car though I'm not a
criminal. That's the way the world works. More expensive than that,
my taxes pay for a whole criminal justice system including police,
detectives, police stations, police cars, police weapons, courts,
judges, lawyers, jails, parole officers. Do I like having to pay for
all that? No! Is there any reason why I, a normal, law-abiding,
dog-owning, citizen should have to? Well, um, yeah, sort of. THAT'S
THE WAY THE WORLD WORKS. Like it or not, this is the system we're
stuck with. If I don't like someone else's dog [censored] on my
property (I always pick up after my dog but honestly don't mind other
people's dogs that much; other things bother me but not that), my
choices are:

Get local police involved (an option explored in my last post).
Retaliate (thus escalating the problem without solving it).
Take out anger on the dog. (Abhorrent.)
Work to get local laws changed (Personally, I've got better things to
do). Put up an expensive fence that you really don't like having to do
and shouldn't have to.

If there's a better solution (and I mentioned the humane trap
possibility), let me know. I'm all ears.

--Lia

Okay, I NEVER let my animals run. The cats are never outside. For the most
part, I walk both dogs on the leash. You would both have to know my yard
situation. I am totally fenced but the PIT, as we call it has about 2 feet
underneath the fence. The dogs can get under it into the neighbors. The
neighbors yard is a complete barracade. Nothing is getting through there.
The pups don't go over there until Mary has salmon on the grill. When they
get there, they steal it and run home.

Basically dogs can get in but not out. My animals do not run loose. I am
so sorry if I gave that impression.

--
....Bacteria: The rear entrance to a cafeteria.

All gramatical errors and misspellings due to Ramsey the cyber kitten. He
now owns all keyboards and computing devices in the household and has the
final say on what is, or is not, posted.
Send email to dog30 at charter dot net

Julia Altshuler <[email hidden]> looking for trouble wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Doug Kanter said:

Julia...please. Don't ever, EVER suggest that someone buy a fence to
keep someone's dog away. Please? Fences are expensive. There's
absolutely no reason why a normal person should have to spend money
to deal with the actions of a dog criminal.

I'm operating on the assumption that Michael is a capable adult who
can make up his own mind as to whether or not he wishes to take my
advice.

There is one good reason why a normal person should have to spend
money to deal with the actions of a criminal: That's the way the
world works.

I have to spend money on locks for my home and car though I'm not a
criminal. That's the way the world works. More expensive than that,
my taxes pay for a whole criminal justice system including police,
detectives, police stations, police cars, police weapons, courts,
judges, lawyers, jails, parole officers. Do I like having to pay for
all that? No! Is there any reason why I, a normal, law-abiding,
dog-owning, citizen should have to? Well, um, yeah, sort of. THAT'S
THE WAY THE WORLD WORKS. Like it or not, this is the system we're
stuck with. If I don't like someone else's dog [censored] on my
property (I always pick up after my dog but honestly don't mind other
people's dogs that much; other things bother me but not that), my
choices are:

Get local police involved (an option explored in my last post).
Retaliate (thus escalating the problem without solving it).
Take out anger on the dog. (Abhorrent.)
Work to get local laws changed (Personally, I've got better things to
do). Put up an expensive fence that you really don't like having to do
and shouldn't have to.

If there's a better solution (and I mentioned the humane trap
possibility), let me know. I'm all ears.

--Lia

Okay, I NEVER let my animals run. The cats are never outside. For the most
part, I walk both dogs on the leash. You would both have to know my yard
situation. I am totally fenced but the PIT, as we call it has about 2 feet
underneath the fence. The dogs can get under it into the neighbors. The
neighbors yard is a complete barracade. Nothing is getting through there.
The pups don't go over there until Mary has salmon on the grill. When they
get there, they steal it and run home.

Basically dogs can get in but not out. My animals do not run loose. I am
so sorry if I gave that impression.

--
....Bacteria: The rear entrance to a cafeteria.

All gramatical errors and misspellings due to Ramsey the cyber kitten. He
now owns all keyboards and computing devices in the household and has the
final say on what is, or is not, posted.
Send email to dog30 at charter dot net

"Michael "Dog3" Lonergan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Julia Altshuler <[email hidden]> looking for trouble wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Doug Kanter said:

Julia...please. Don't ever, EVER suggest that someone buy a fence to
keep someone's dog away. Please? Fences are expensive. There's
absolutely no reason why a normal person should have to spend money
to deal with the actions of a dog criminal.

I'm operating on the assumption that Michael is a capable adult who
can make up his own mind as to whether or not he wishes to take my
advice.

There is one good reason why a normal person should have to spend
money to deal with the actions of a criminal: That's the way the
world works.

I have to spend money on locks for my home and car though I'm not a
criminal. That's the way the world works. More expensive than that,
my taxes pay for a whole criminal justice system including police,
detectives, police stations, police cars, police weapons, courts,
judges, lawyers, jails, parole officers. Do I like having to pay for
all that? No! Is there any reason why I, a normal, law-abiding,
dog-owning, citizen should have to? Well, um, yeah, sort of. THAT'S
THE WAY THE WORLD WORKS. Like it or not, this is the system we're
stuck with. If I don't like someone else's dog [censored] on my
property (I always pick up after my dog but honestly don't mind other
people's dogs that much; other things bother me but not that), my
choices are:

Get local police involved (an option explored in my last post).
Retaliate (thus escalating the problem without solving it).
Take out anger on the dog. (Abhorrent.)
Work to get local laws changed (Personally, I've got better things to
do). Put up an expensive fence that you really don't like having to do
and shouldn't have to.

If there's a better solution (and I mentioned the humane trap
possibility), let me know. I'm all ears.

--Lia

Okay, I NEVER let my animals run. The cats are never outside. For the
most
part, I walk both dogs on the leash. You would both have to know my yard
situation. I am totally fenced but the PIT, as we call it has about 2
feet
underneath the fence. The dogs can get under it into the neighbors. The
neighbors yard is a complete barracade. Nothing is getting through there.
The pups don't go over there until Mary has salmon on the grill. When
they
get there, they steal it and run home.

Basically dogs can get in but not out. My animals do not run loose. I am
so sorry if I gave that impression.

Dealing with your neighbor and her stray(s): Call animal control. Wait 4
hours and call them again, asking politely if they've captured the offending
animals and/or fined the women, whichever the law requires in your town. If
they say they haven't visited her yet, ask them when that will happen and
call them back at the appropriate time. Do this until they understand that
you intend to be a pain in the ass.

In many towns, a dog criminal is fined 3 times, and then the dog is taken
away permanently. Most of the time, victims don't use the law to best
advantage. If you do things right, you can compress the 3 fines and dog
removal into as little as a couple of weeks.

Michael 'Dog3' Lonergan said:

Basically dogs can get in but not out. My animals do not run loose. I am
so sorry if I gave that impression.

I didn't get the impression that you let your animals run loose. I got
the impression that you were trying to deal with a crazy neighbor who
lets her animals run loose. I am sorry if I gave the impression that I
got the wrong impression.

--Lia