recommend a pedal for a clipless noob

"Nate Nagel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all,

I'm thinking about making the leap to clipless (I've got some fresh rat
trap scars on the back of my leg, because I don't have either good pedals
or good shoes at the moment) but am not sure what I should try first.

Most people are telling me to go SPD, but the guy at the LBS closest to my
house tells me I really want Looks for more float (makes sense.) I don't
think he's trying to make a sale because he's got a bucket full of used
pedals of both types, and he doesn't sell shoes at all. I was hoping to
be able to walk in whatever shoes I ended up getting but that seems to not
be an option for either? Also, what about the new SPD-SL?

Also, any recommendations on shoes? I've just been wearing some old
soccer shoes on platforms and I can tell they're not stiff enough, my toes
feel a little weird after about 10 miles or so.

I'm not looking for "the best" just something that will work well,
although I don't mind spending money if there's a real value in spending
more.

Most of my riding will be on roads, FWIW...

This is almost a helmet troll. I have always been a Look guy but if I had
it to do over again I'd have gone Speedplay.

--
JF

"Here comes the lightening and here comes the thunder. Ride on the storm and
take it to the sea. "
- Jim Hunter

Jim F said:

"Nate Nagel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all,

I'm thinking about making the leap to clipless (I've got some fresh rat
trap scars on the back of my leg, because I don't have either good pedals
or good shoes at the moment) but am not sure what I should try first.

Most people are telling me to go SPD, but the guy at the LBS closest to my
house tells me I really want Looks for more float (makes sense.) I don't
think he's trying to make a sale because he's got a bucket full of used
pedals of both types, and he doesn't sell shoes at all. I was hoping to
be able to walk in whatever shoes I ended up getting but that seems to not
be an option for either? Also, what about the new SPD-SL?

Also, any recommendations on shoes? I've just been wearing some old
soccer shoes on platforms and I can tell they're not stiff enough, my toes
feel a little weird after about 10 miles or so.

I'm not looking for "the best" just something that will work well,
although I don't mind spending money if there's a real value in spending
more.

Most of my riding will be on roads, FWIW...

This is almost a helmet troll. I have always been a Look guy but if I had
it to do over again I'd have gone Speedplay.

It's a serious question. I've tried to read and absorb all I can, but
it seems that there are SO many choices out there and no opportunities
to actually try all the different systems before purchasing.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Jim F said:

"Nate Nagel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all,

I'm thinking about making the leap to clipless (I've got some fresh rat
trap scars on the back of my leg, because I don't have either good pedals
or good shoes at the moment) but am not sure what I should try first.

Most people are telling me to go SPD, but the guy at the LBS closest to my
house tells me I really want Looks for more float (makes sense.) I don't
think he's trying to make a sale because he's got a bucket full of used
pedals of both types, and he doesn't sell shoes at all. I was hoping to
be able to walk in whatever shoes I ended up getting but that seems to not
be an option for either? Also, what about the new SPD-SL?

Also, any recommendations on shoes? I've just been wearing some old
soccer shoes on platforms and I can tell they're not stiff enough, my toes
feel a little weird after about 10 miles or so.

I'm not looking for "the best" just something that will work well,
although I don't mind spending money if there's a real value in spending
more.

Most of my riding will be on roads, FWIW...

This is almost a helmet troll. I have always been a Look guy but if I had
it to do over again I'd have gone Speedplay.

This guy wants to walk. Unless you mean Frogs, Speedplay is not the best
choice if one wants to walk.
If you want tons of float then get Speedplays X series.
I think Nate wants SPD. His LBS is wrong IMO.

Lou; Speedplay X serie and SPD's

In article <[email hidden]>, Nate Nagel

Quoted message said:

I'm not looking for "the best" just something that will work well,
although I don't mind spending money if there's a real value in spending
more.

Most of my riding will be on roads, FWIW...

I recommend SPDs. Unless your knees require ample float there's no need
to go the more expensive Speedplay (Frogs)/Look route.

Walkable SPD footwear is readily available in a variety of styles and
practicality: sandals; casual, pseudo-running shoes; stiff soled, deep
tread MTB shoes for competition; and winter boots. No shortage of
options. And Wellgo and Shimano make Half(SPD)/Half(Platform) pedals if
you'd like the option of cycling in non-cycling footwear.

Nate Nagel said:

Hi all,

I'm thinking about making the leap to clipless (I've got some fresh rat
trap scars on the back of my leg, because I don't have either good
pedals or good shoes at the moment) but am not sure what I should try first.

Basic spd with your choice of basic walkable mtb shoe. I like the
Nashbar/Wellgo/Ritchey pedal that runs $35 or so. Stomp and go.

But as it's summer, if I was starting fresh, and was looking at riding
my bike everywhere, I'd probably just get some comfy Keen type sandals
and some big ole monster platforms with pins.

Nashwhore has their house platform special on sale for $25:
http://tinyurl.com/2l9csz

And look, they've got their clipless spd pedal on sale for $27, so you
can swap it out when fall rolls around:
http://tinyurl.com/2lmu4n

Get shoes locally so they fit.

Nate Nagel said:

I don't think he's trying to make a sale because he's got a bucket full of
used pedals of both types, and he doesn't sell shoes at all.  I was
hoping to be able to walk in whatever shoes I ended up getting but that
seems to not be an option for either?  Also, what about the new SPD-SL?

Walking? Lots? IOW, shopping for groceries, or just store stops?

With SPD, you can walk in sandals <g>. Google here, Sheldon Brown
liked SPD sandals a lot. I've ridden fast, 30-mile group rides with a
couple of SPD sandal users, no problems even when hammering. From
there, the selection goes on out to other shoes, incl. Sidi
Dominators, which have a very nice strap and buckle arrangement.
Proper fit first, some people don't match up with Sidi but if they fit
they're very good. Not cheap, last a long time.

A bucket full of used pedals sounds like a good opportunity to borrow
a couple of brands at least for a good tryout, which will cost you
only the price of a new set of cleats if some used sets of those
aren't off in another bucket <g>.

Open to correction (please) but I think the SPD cleats you want are
the SH-51's. --D-y

Nate Nagel said:

Hi all,

I'm thinking about making the leap to clipless (I've got some fresh rat
trap scars on the back of my leg, because I don't have either good
pedals or good shoes at the moment) but am not sure what I should try first.

Most people are telling me to go SPD, but the guy at the LBS closest to
my house tells me I really want Looks for more float (makes sense.)  I
don't think he's trying to make a sale because he's got a bucket full of
used pedals of both types, and he doesn't sell shoes at all.  I was
hoping to be able to walk in whatever shoes I ended up getting but that
seems to not be an option for either?  Also, what about the new SPD-SL?

Also, any recommendations on shoes?  I've just been wearing some old
soccer shoes on platforms and I can tell they're not stiff enough, my
toes feel a little weird after about 10 miles or so.

I'm not looking for "the best" just something that will work well,
although I don't mind spending money if there's a real value in spending
more.

Most of my riding will be on roads, FWIW...

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

If you want to walk in your shoes, go for SPD mountain style. Look are
probably the worst you could do in terms of walkability. Closely
followed by SPD-SL. At least SPD-SL doesn't get worn out by walking as
fast as Look. But both are not really walkable.

I'd get these if they made my size:

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=26101

And use Shimano 540's.

The business about float is up in the air. SPD have plenty of float if
you want float.

I use SPD on my mountain and pull-the-kids-in-the-trailer bike. SPD-SL
on my road bike (used to use Look). And traditional slotted cleats and
toe straps on my fixed gear. So I have direct experience with all 3.
Never tried Speedplay.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Nate Nagel said:

I don't think he's trying to make a sale because he's got a bucket full of
used pedals of both types, and he doesn't sell shoes at all. I was
hoping to be able to walk in whatever shoes I ended up getting but that
seems to not be an option for either? Also, what about the new SPD-SL?

Walking? Lots? IOW, shopping for groceries, or just store stops?

With SPD, you can walk in sandals <g>. Google here, Sheldon Brown
liked SPD sandals a lot. I've ridden fast, 30-mile group rides with a
couple of SPD sandal users, no problems even when hammering. From
there, the selection goes on out to other shoes, incl. Sidi
Dominators, which have a very nice strap and buckle arrangement.
Proper fit first, some people don't match up with Sidi but if they fit
they're very good. Not cheap, last a long time.

A bucket full of used pedals sounds like a good opportunity to borrow
a couple of brands at least for a good tryout, which will cost you
only the price of a new set of cleats if some used sets of those
aren't off in another bucket <g>.

Open to correction (please) but I think the SPD cleats you want are
the SH-51's. --D-y

yeah, there is that, but I don't have any shoes. My understanding is
that the type of clips, to some extent, determines the choice of shoe.
Or are there some shoes that are drilled for more than one type of clip?
If that is the case, and I can find a pair that fit, that might be
exactly what I do.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel said:

Quoted message said:

On May 10, 9:01 am, Nate Nagel <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't think he's trying to make a sale because he's got a bucket full of
used pedals of both types, and he doesn't sell shoes at all.  I was
hoping to be able to walk in whatever shoes I ended up getting but that
seems to not be an option for either?  Also, what about the new SPD-SL?

Quoted message said:

Walking? Lots? IOW, shopping for groceries, or just store stops?

Quoted message said:

With SPD, you can walk in sandals <g>. Google here, Sheldon Brown
liked SPD sandals a lot. I've ridden fast, 30-mile group rides with a
couple of SPD sandal users, no problems even when hammering. From
there, the selection goes on out to other shoes, incl. Sidi
Dominators, which have a very nice strap and buckle arrangement.
Proper fit first, some people don't match up with Sidi but if they fit
they're very good. Not cheap, last a long time.

Quoted message said:

A bucket full of used pedals sounds like a good opportunity to borrow
a couple of brands at least for a good tryout, which will cost you
only the price of a new set of cleats if some used sets of those
aren't off in another bucket <g>.

Quoted message said:

Open to correction (please) but I think the SPD cleats you want are
the SH-51's.  --D-y

yeah, there is that, but I don't have any shoes.  My understanding is
that the type of clips, to some extent, determines the choice of shoe.
Or are there some shoes that are drilled for more than one type of clip?
  If that is the case, and I can find a pair that fit, that might be
exactly what I do.

nate

Some shoes accomodate both types of cleats. But usually these shoes do
not have a recess for the small SPD type cleat. While they have holes
to mount SPD cleats, the cleat just sticks out and is equally
unwalkable as a Look or SPD-SL.

Here is a picture of the sole of a Lake road shoe made to accomodate
all sorts of pedals:

http://www.lakecycling.com/images/Products/medium/sole/cx_sole.jpg

Here is a picture of an SPD specific sole in a touring type shoe with
a recess for the SPD cleat (the rubber thing in the middle needs to be
removed to mount the SPD cleat):

http://www.lakecycling.com/images/Products/medium/sole/mx90_sole.jpg

You can walk in those, but not the first type.

For a shoe to be walkable, it needs a recessed cleat. SPD are the only
type that can be in a recess in the shoe. However they do not need to
be in a recess to work. Only to walk.

IMO, if you have never tried clipless, there is no point in trying to
figure out which type will be best. They are all so close once they
are engaged, you won't miss any tiny advantages one may have over the
other. The only significant difference is walkability. SPD in a
recessed shoe can be walked with, everything else cannot.

Joseph

Luke said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Nate Nagel

Quoted message said:

I'm not looking for "the best" just something that will work well,
although I don't mind spending money if there's a real value in spending
more.

Most of my riding will be on roads, FWIW...

I recommend SPDs. Unless your knees require ample float there's no need
to go the more expensive Speedplay (Frogs)/Look route.

Walkable SPD footwear is readily available in a variety of styles and
practicality: sandals; casual, pseudo-running shoes; stiff soled, deep
tread MTB shoes for competition; and winter boots. No shortage of
options. And Wellgo and Shimano make Half(SPD)/Half(Platform) pedals if
you'd like the option of cycling in non-cycling footwear.

Having the Forte-rebranded Wellgo pedals, I heartily endorse them. Yeah,
clipping in requires flipping the pedal to the right side, but you get
used to it in a hurry. And being able to hop on in dressy shoes or heavy
winter boots is nice.

--

Kristian Zoerhoff
[email hidden]

landotter said:

Nate Nagel said:

Hi all,

I'm thinking about making the leap to clipless (I've got some fresh rat
trap scars on the back of my leg, because I don't have either good
pedals or good shoes at the moment) but am not sure what I should try first.

Basic spd with your choice of basic walkable mtb shoe. I like the
Nashbar/Wellgo/Ritchey pedal that runs $35 or so. Stomp and go.

But as it's summer, if I was starting fresh, and was looking at riding
my bike everywhere, I'd probably just get some comfy Keen type sandals
and some big ole monster platforms with pins.

Why go Keen-type when you can get the real thing from REI?

<http://www.rei.com/search?vcat=REI_SEARCH&query=keen+commuter&x=0&y=0>

I picked some up on sale a couple months ago, and love them. Best SPD
footwear I own.

--

Kristian Zoerhoff
[email hidden]

Nate Nagel said:

Hi all,

I'm thinking about making the leap to clipless (I've got some fresh rat
trap scars on the back of my leg, because I don't have either good
pedals or good shoes at the moment) but am not sure what I should try first.

Most people are telling me to go SPD, but the guy at the LBS closest to
my house tells me I really want Looks for more float (makes sense.)  

I would recomment dual-sided SPD pedals such as the PD-M520. It has
enough float

I started out with Look pedals in the early '90s when they were the
only think around, and used them untill a few years ago. If you do any
amount of walking, an SPD pedal with a recessed cleat is a better
choice. The Look pedals make you walk like a duck, and the plastic
cleats wear quickly and tend to slip when you put a foot down.

As for a shoe, I'd recommend the Shimano RT-51 because it has a good
stiff sole which will eliminate "hot spots" due to cleat pressure on
your foot.

See:
http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/products/shoes/road/product.-code-SH-RT51.-type-.html

Art Harris

Art Harris said:

Nate Nagel said:

Hi all,

I'm thinking about making the leap to clipless (I've got some fresh rat
trap scars on the back of my leg, because I don't have either good
pedals or good shoes at the moment) but am not sure what I should try first.

Most people are telling me to go SPD, but the guy at the LBS closest to
my house tells me I really want Looks for more float (makes sense.)

I would recomment dual-sided SPD pedals such as the PD-M520. It has
enough float

I started out with Look pedals in the early '90s when they were the
only think around, and used them untill a few years ago. If you do any
amount of walking, an SPD pedal with a recessed cleat is a better
choice. The Look pedals make you walk like a duck, and the plastic
cleats wear quickly and tend to slip when you put a foot down.

As for a shoe, I'd recommend the Shimano RT-51 because it has a good
stiff sole which will eliminate "hot spots" due to cleat pressure on
your foot.

See:
http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/products/shoes/road/product.-code-SH-RT51.-type-.html

Art Harris

Thanks to all for the replies, after following a couple of the links
provided I think you all are on the right track with what I want. I see
that REI has those M520's on sale through tomorrow, I might have to pick
up a pair. (actually have an REI within riding distance) Unfortunately
they don't seem to sell the shoes you recommend above; and after looking
at what's available I think I might have to get fitted for some MTB
shoes and then order online. I haven't seen anything like the shoes you
recommend above in any of the local stores, but that seems like it would
meet my needs (walkable, but not a MTB shoe. I guess the keyword I
should be using would be "touring?"😉

thanks again,

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel said:

I'm thinking about making the leap to clipless (I've got some fresh rat
trap scars on the back of my leg, because I don't have either good
pedals or good shoes at the moment)...

Ouch!

Quoted message said:

... but am not sure what I should try first.

This decision was easy for me: I got a bike that already had SPD
pedals on it. I found a pair of Shimano MT40 shoes that fit at the
LBS, mounted SH-51 cleats, and was up-and-running. The system works
swell, is inexpensive, compatible, okay to walk in, and doesn't look
all dorky.

I'm itching for a nice pair of SPD sandals for this summer.

Going clipless is a definite "night and day" experience for riding. I
just don't know if I'll be able to make the switch from Levi's to
lycra as easily.

Nate Nagel said:

My understanding is
that the type of clips, to some extent, determines the choice of shoe.
Or are there some shoes that are drilled for more than one type of clip?
  If that is the case, and I can find a pair that fit, that might be
exactly what I do.

This is where it might be best to go to a store ("bike store" or
other) that has shoes you're interested in, and get the fit right,
before all else. Not the cheapest way but then look in ebay and note
all the "new", "didn't fit" cycling shoes people are trying to get
their money back out of, pending the next try at a good fit.

The ancient lore of "cycle shoes gotta fit tight" is still around.
Beware. Tight shoes are not necessary and are bad for your feet.
That's where the Sidi buckle top strap/velcro toe straps work for me--
I can run the toe area loose, and keep my toes from sliding forward
and hitting the inside ends of the shoes via top strap's buckle
adjustment.

Here's a sample from Sidi:

<http://www.sidiusa.com/tech/cleat_millenium2.html>

Which, FWIW, doesn't show the "SPD bolt on adapter with recess" that I
have on my Spin shoes (Genius IV or V road shoes). It's like a plastic
enclosure that bolts on to the Sidi sole, and carries a sliding,
threaded metal plate that accepts the SPD cleat bolts. Kinda mickey-
mouse but it works, OK for limited walking in Spin class situations.

You can do some wwweb looking and get some idea of models and hardware
with other shoe mfg's.

I'm sure doing some googling of this ng would show some thread titles
where you might get more general info, too.

BTW, the SPD-SL "pontoon" style cleat beats Look (as mentioned) and
Campy cleats, IME, not just for limiting wear, to some extent, while
walking, but also for stability. Much better but still not any kind of
a hiking shoe. --D-y

Nate Nagel said:

I haven't seen anything like the shoes you
recommend above in any of the local stores, but that seems like it would
meet my needs (walkable, but not a MTB shoe.  I guess the keyword I
should be using would be "touring?"😉

Yes, I can't understand why Shimano doesn't promote their SPD Touring
shoes more. I use the now discontinued T092's. Recently Nashbar was
selling the similar RT-50's (which seems to have been replaced by the
RT-51). These shoes aren't as clunky as MTB shoes, and are great for
road riding and walking. Good luck.

Art Harris

Art Harris said:

Nate Nagel said:

I haven't seen anything like the shoes you
recommend above in any of the local stores, but that seems like it would
meet my needs (walkable, but not a MTB shoe. I guess the keyword I
should be using would be "touring?"😉

Yes, I can't understand why Shimano doesn't promote their SPD Touring
shoes more. I use the now discontinued T092's. Recently Nashbar was
selling the similar RT-50's (which seems to have been replaced by the
RT-51). These shoes aren't as clunky as MTB shoes, and are great for
road riding and walking. Good luck.

Art Harris

hmm. don't seem to be much of anywhere to buy them based on a quick
google - most of the hits are European. There also appears to be a more
expensive RT-80, which I guess is an option as well. Do Shimano shoe
sizes tend to be consistent across different product lines? Looks like
I'd have to be fitted for a MTB or road shoe and then order the touring
shoes online.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Quoted message said:

Nate Nagel said:

Quoted message said:

On May 10, 9:01 am, Nate Nagel <[email hidden]> wrote:
> I don't think he's trying to make a sale because he's got a bucket full of
> used pedals of both types, and he doesn't sell shoes at all. I was
> hoping to be able to walk in whatever shoes I ended up getting but that
> seems to not be an option for either? Also, what about the new SPD-SL?
Walking? Lots? IOW, shopping for groceries, or just store stops?
With SPD, you can walk in sandals <g>. Google here, Sheldon Brown
liked SPD sandals a lot. I've ridden fast, 30-mile group rides with a
couple of SPD sandal users, no problems even when hammering. From
there, the selection goes on out to other shoes, incl. Sidi
Dominators, which have a very nice strap and buckle arrangement.
Proper fit first, some people don't match up with Sidi but if they fit
they're very good. Not cheap, last a long time.
A bucket full of used pedals sounds like a good opportunity to borrow
a couple of brands at least for a good tryout, which will cost you
only the price of a new set of cleats if some used sets of those
aren't off in another bucket <g>.
Open to correction (please) but I think the SPD cleats you want are
the SH-51's. --D-y

yeah, there is that, but I don't have any shoes. My understanding is
that the type of clips, to some extent, determines the choice of shoe.
Or are there some shoes that are drilled for more than one type of clip?
If that is the case, and I can find a pair that fit, that might be
exactly what I do.

nate

Some shoes accomodate both types of cleats. But usually these shoes do
not have a recess for the small SPD type cleat. While they have holes
to mount SPD cleats, the cleat just sticks out and is equally
unwalkable as a Look or SPD-SL.

Here is a picture of the sole of a Lake road shoe made to accomodate
all sorts of pedals:

http://www.lakecycling.com/images/Products/medium/sole/cx_sole.jpg

Here is a picture of an SPD specific sole in a touring type shoe with
a recess for the SPD cleat (the rubber thing in the middle needs to be
removed to mount the SPD cleat):

http://www.lakecycling.com/images/Products/medium/sole/mx90_sole.jpg

You can walk in those, but not the first type.

For a shoe to be walkable, it needs a recessed cleat. SPD are the only
type that can be in a recess in the shoe. However they do not need to
be in a recess to work. Only to walk.

IMO, if you have never tried clipless, there is no point in trying to
figure out which type will be best. They are all so close once they
are engaged, you won't miss any tiny advantages one may have over the
other. The only significant difference is walkability. SPD in a
recessed shoe can be walked with, everything else cannot.

Joseph

I have no experience with SPD pedals. I use Speedplay Frogs on some old
Specialized shoes and on Shimano SPD sandals, and they recede nicely
into the shoes for walkability.

BC
frogged again

In article <[email hidden]>,

Nate Nagel said:

Hi all,

I'm thinking about making the leap to clipless (I've got some fresh rat
trap scars on the back of my leg, because I don't have either good
pedals or good shoes at the moment) but am not sure what I should try first.

Most people are telling me to go SPD, but the guy at the LBS closest to
my house tells me I really want Looks for more float (makes sense.) I
don't think he's trying to make a sale because he's got a bucket full of
used pedals of both types, and he doesn't sell shoes at all. I was
hoping to be able to walk in whatever shoes I ended up getting but that
seems to not be an option for either? Also, what about the new SPD-SL?

Also, any recommendations on shoes? I've just been wearing some old
soccer shoes on platforms and I can tell they're not stiff enough, my
toes feel a little weird after about 10 miles or so.

I'm not looking for "the best" just something that will work well,
although I don't mind spending money if there's a real value in spending
more.

Most of my riding will be on roads, FWIW...

The only walkable cleat shoes are SPD type.

Strongest recommendation. When first you set up
the pedals set the retention force to the minimum.
This will make it easier to learn how to clip out,
and offer a bit of a safety margin when you
forget to clip out. When first you ride with them
practice coasting along and removing a foot from
the pedal so you quickly learn to do it without
thinking. As you approach a traffic stop unclip
while still rolling. You are going to love the
new system.

--
Michael Press