Recumbent questions

in message <[email hidden]>, Wally

(') said:

What's the received wisdom on steering arrangements for recumbents? I
gather the main approaches are normal straight bars under the
seat/thighs, straight bars underneath with vertical 'bar ends' to mount
brake and gear levers, and some sort of arrangement where the bars are
extended above the legs.

Do the low-mounted bars have any issues with steering lock? How about
stopping and putting the feet down - do the bars get in the way?
Similarly, is it awkward to start with this type?

I found it so when trying, but was also riding someone else's pride and
joy. People who are used to them clearly don't find it hard. The primary
advantage which seems to be argued for under-seat steering is comfort;
the primary disadvantage is aerodynamics (although I also think USS
bikes just look better). There's no doubt that aerodynamically,
over-seat steering is better.

Quoted message said:

Do the high-mounted bars get in the way of the legs while pedalling, or
are there designs which get around that?

No. Again, as a beginner, you think they will, but they don't.

Quoted message said:

What's the typical amount of chain needed on a recumbent? Three
standard chains?

Yup. Although the front wheel drive bikes use one or less. I don't know
what chain life is like on a front wheel drive bent - I would imagine
that the twisting while steering, although not very much, can't be good
for them. Mr Larrington?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

"Wally" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What's the received wisdom on steering arrangements for recumbents? I
gather
the main approaches are normal straight bars under the seat/thighs,
straight
bars underneath with vertical 'bar ends' to mount brake and gear levers,
and
some sort of arrangement where the bars are extended above the legs.

Do the low-mounted bars have any issues with steering lock? How about
stopping and putting the feet down - do the bars get in the way?
Similarly,
is it awkward to start with this type?

Do the high-mounted bars get in the way of the legs while pedalling, or
are
there designs which get around that?

What's the typical amount of chain needed on a recumbent? Three standard
chains?

Have a look at

http://www.ice.hpv.co.uk/

I've got an Ice T. The steering is extremely light (good, no aching arms),
responsive, accurate and the 'bent is highly manoeuvrable - it turns on a
sixpence. No problems accessing the 'bent, no problems using the 'bent.

Cheers, helen s

Simon Brooke said:

Quoted message said:

Do the high-mounted bars get in the way of the legs while pedalling, or
are there designs which get around that?

No. Again, as a beginner, you think they will, but they don't.

They did for me on every full recumbent[1] I have tried. Then again I
do have short chunky legs. A bit more adjustment may have fixed the
problem.

...d

[1] Where feet are more or less horizontally in front of hips.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Wally said:

Do the high-mounted bars get in the way of the legs while pedalling, or are
there designs which get around that?

I hope Wally doesn't mind me tacking another newbie question onto the
end of his🙂 From looking at people riding With the the above seat
steering option it looks possible for rainwater to run down your sleeves
from your wrists and collect at your elbows. Does this happen in practice?

Mike

Mike Civil said:

I hope Wally doesn't mind me tacking another newbie question onto the
end of his🙂 From looking at people riding With the the above seat
steering option it looks possible for rainwater to run down your sleeves
from your wrists and collect at your elbows. Does this happen in practice?

Mike

Not for me, but I have a problem in that my seat is fairly laid back
and so a little rainwater gets through the zip on my jacket. Not a
huge problem since my strategy is to be warm rather than dry, but not
as good as on the upright

In article <[email hidden]>, Wally

() said:

What's the received wisdom on steering arrangements for recumbents? I gather
the main approaches are normal straight bars under the seat/thighs, straight
bars underneath with vertical 'bar ends' to mount brake and gear levers, and
some sort of arrangement where the bars are extended above the legs.

Personally I prefer above-seat steering on two wheels, as it's more aero
and provides more space to mount toys.

Quoted message said:

Do the low-mounted bars have any issues with steering lock? How about
stopping and putting the feet down - do the bars get in the way? Similarly,
is it awkward to start with this type?

Not usually any problems until one gets to /silly/ amounts of lock - the
sort which, if applied while moving, would cause one to fall on one's
head rather rapidly.

Quoted message said:

Do the high-mounted bars get in the way of the legs while pedalling, or are
there designs which get around that?

If everything is correctly adjusted this should not be a problem,
although I still have the scars to show what happens when one's foot
escapes from a pedal while accelerating away from the lights.

Quoted message said:

What's the typical amount of chain needed on a recumbent? Three standard
chains?

Typically a rear-wheel drive one will use about two and a half, so in
theory one need only buy two "next time". Of course, by the time "next
time" rolls around, you've lost the offcuts, or they've changed he
model, or you want to upgrade to nine speed, or...

Don't know about accelerated chain wear on twist-chain FWD bikes, I'm
afraid.

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
It is impossible to eat a banana without looking like a tw*t.

Wally said:

Do the low-mounted bars have any issues with steering lock?

they may, depends on the seat arrangement. On mine the bars butt up
against the seat but I can still make a U turn on a road - which is as
much steering as I want.

Quoted message said:

How about stopping and putting the feet down - do the bars get in the way?

no.

I find it easier to stop with USS, because I can lean forward while
stabilising myself on the bars, to look round bends etc. Fixed OSS can
get in the way of leaning forward, and you cant brace yourself against
articulated OSS.

Quoted message said:

Similarly, is it awkward to start with this type?

no.

Another point about OSS - it induces more steering wobble than USS, as
there's a lot of mass hanging around well away from the wheel.

I dont buy the "OSS is more aerodynamic" argument, at least I dont think
that any advantage is significant. My M5 came with OSS & I changed it to
USS. On my 12 mile commute I freewheel to 36mph down a safe hill, the
difference isnt shown in commute times or max freewheel speed.

Phil

In article <[email hidden]>, Phil Clarke

() said:

I dont buy the "OSS is more aerodynamic" argument, at least I dont think
that any advantage is significant. My M5 came with OSS & I changed it to
USS. On my 12 mile commute I freewheel to 36mph down a safe hill, the
difference isnt shown in commute times or max freewheel speed.

Peter Ross found otherwise with the Speed Ross; he would go out riding
with a friend with an ASS model. When Peter was on the ASS model, they
coasted at about the same speed; when he was on the USS model, his mate
disappeared into the distance like a vanishy thing.

The USS model was dropped shortly thereafter.

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Maffeo Barberini (1568-1644) was made entirely of salmon.

Dave Larrington said:

Peter Ross found otherwise with the Speed Ross; he would go out riding
with a friend with an ASS model. When Peter was on the ASS model, they
coasted at about the same speed; when he was on the USS model, his mate
disappeared into the distance like a vanishy thing.

The USS model was dropped shortly thereafter.

Thinking "what does it look like" and throwing "USS model" into google
images got me this picture:
http://www.fao.org/docrep/d3200e/d3200e1x.jpg
It doesn't look very aerodynamic to me either, and could have made quite
a mess when dropped shortly thereafter.

In case anyone should ask, no I did't go looking for pics of the other
model. TMSAISTI.

--
JimP
--
"We don't have a plan, so nothing can go wrong" - Spike Milligan

Wally said:

What's the received wisdom on steering arrangements for recumbents? I gather
the main approaches are normal straight bars under the seat/thighs, straight
bars underneath with vertical 'bar ends' to mount brake and gear levers, and
some sort of arrangement where the bars are extended above the legs.

Quoted message said:

Do the low-mounted bars have any issues with steering lock? How about
stopping and putting the feet down - do the bars get in the way? Similarly,
is it awkward to start with this type?

Do the high-mounted bars get in the way of the legs while pedalling, or are
there designs which get around that?

What's the typical amount of chain needed on a recumbent? Three standard
chains?

Cheers,

Wally said:

What's the received wisdom on steering arrangements for recumbents? I gather
the main approaches are normal straight bars under the seat/thighs, straight
bars underneath with vertical 'bar ends' to mount brake and gear levers, and
some sort of arrangement where the bars are extended above the legs.

Not forgetting those bikes that don't have handlebars of course [save
only to mount brakes and gear levers] - the Python, a curious thing,
that on the one hand completely solves the issues relating to
wheel/heal strike and enabling you to have 700c front wheel while
still remaining in a relatively low level of seating position, but on
the other invites you to steer with your legs and by shifting body
weight around the place!
I've not tried one, and I'm not sure if I will either...not just now
anyway :-)

http://www.python-lowracer.de/

Garry

Quoted message said:

Do the low-mounted bars have any issues with steering lock? How about
stopping and putting the feet down - do the bars get in the way? Similarly,
is it awkward to start with this type?

Quoted message said:

Do the high-mounted bars get in the way of the legs while pedalling, or are
there designs which get around that?

What's the typical amount of chain needed on a recumbent? Three standard
chains?

Cheers,

Simon Brooke said:

... People who are used to them clearly don't find it hard.

Fair comment.

Quoted message said:

The
primary advantage which seems to be argued for under-seat steering is
comfort; the primary disadvantage is aerodynamics (although I also
think USS bikes just look better). There's no doubt that
aerodynamically, over-seat steering is better.

I'm not too fussed about aerodynamics. I'm building something on the cheap
from a pile of bits, with a view to just trying out the two-wheel recumbent
thing. (The longer-term plan is to make a trike, but I'm still at the CAD
geometry stage with that.) I can appreciate the comfort aspect, though - the
USS bars with the risers at the ends look like the type I'd like to try.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do the high-mounted bars get in the way of the legs while pedalling,
or are there designs which get around that?

No. Again, as a beginner, you think they will, but they don't.

Yup, understood.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What's the typical amount of chain needed on a recumbent? Three
standard chains?

Yup.

Okay.

Quoted message said:

Although the front wheel drive bikes use one or less. I don't
know what chain life is like on a front wheel drive bent - I would
imagine that the twisting while steering, although not very much,
can't be good for them. Mr Larrington?

Not doing a front-wheel drive version - big wheel at the back, small one at
the front, pedals on a boom.

--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

wafflycat said:

I've got an Ice T. The steering is extremely light (good, no aching
arms), responsive, accurate and the 'bent is highly manoeuvrable - it
turns on a sixpence. No problems accessing the 'bent, no problems
using the 'bent.

I don't think I mentioned it, but I was actually asking about two-wheelers.
Not to worry, though - there's a trike in my future somewhere, so that site
is handy all the same. :-)

--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Dave Larrington said:

Personally I prefer above-seat steering on two wheels, as it's more
aero and provides more space to mount toys.

That was something I had thought about. With USS steering, I guess some sort
of little T-bar thing could be done for mounting a computer. Do lights go on
the 'downtube' stub at the end of the boom (with a remote switch?)?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do the low-mounted bars have any issues with steering lock? How about
stopping and putting the feet down - do the bars get in the way?
Similarly, is it awkward to start with this type?

Not usually any problems until one gets to /silly/ amounts of lock -
the sort which, if applied while moving, would cause one to fall on
one's head rather rapidly.

Okay.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do the high-mounted bars get in the way of the legs while pedalling,
or are there designs which get around that?

If everything is correctly adjusted this should not be a problem,
although I still have the scars to show what happens when one's foot
escapes from a pedal while accelerating away from the lights.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What's the typical amount of chain needed on a recumbent? Three
standard chains?

Typically a rear-wheel drive one will use about two and a half, so in
theory one need only buy two "next time". Of course, by the time
"next time" rolls around, you've lost the offcuts, or they've changed
he model, or you want to upgrade to nine speed, or...

Fine.

Quoted message said:

Don't know about accelerated chain wear on twist-chain FWD bikes, I'm
afraid.

Not doing one of those.

--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Phil Clarke said:

Wally said:

Do the low-mounted bars have any issues with steering lock?

they may, depends on the seat arrangement. On mine the bars butt up
against the seat but I can still make a U turn on a road - which is as
much steering as I want.

What make/model do you have? I'd like to take a look at some pictures if
possible.

Quoted message said:

I find it easier to stop with USS, because I can lean forward while
stabilising myself on the bars, to look round bends etc. Fixed OSS can
get in the way of leaning forward, and you cant brace yourself against
articulated OSS.

I'm not keen on articulated steering set ups for this kind of reason. First
saw it on a trike, and it just seemed 'wrong'.

Quoted message said:

Another point about OSS - it induces more steering wobble than USS, as
there's a lot of mass hanging around well away from the wheel.

Noted.

Quoted message said:

I dont buy the "OSS is more aerodynamic" argument, at least I dont
think that any advantage is significant. My M5 came with OSS & I
changed it to USS. On my 12 mile commute I freewheel to 36mph down a
safe hill, the difference isnt shown in commute times or max
freewheel speed.

Not bothered about that - just want to try out the recumbent thing.

--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

garryb59 said:

Not forgetting those bikes that don't have handlebars of course [save
only to mount brakes and gear levers] - the Python, a curious thing,
that on the one hand completely solves the issues relating to
wheel/heal strike and enabling you to have 700c front wheel while
still remaining in a relatively low level of seating position, but on
the other invites you to steer with your legs and by shifting body
weight around the place!

Nope. It bends in the middle. Too weird. Anyway, I already have a
conventional recumbent frame, and a donor bike wiv cogs 'n' brakes 'n'
wheels, to get going with. Just need a 20" front wheel, a seat, and some
bits like chain, idler(s), chain tube, cables.

Quoted message said:

I've not tried one, and I'm not sure if I will either...not just now
anyway :-)

Aye, you and me both!

--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Wally twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

That was something I had thought about. With USS steering, I guess some
sort of little T-bar thing could be done for mounting a computer. Do
lights go on the 'downtube' stub at the end of the boom (with a remote
switch?)?

On my (rather archaic) Streetmachine[1] I've got a Minoura Space Grip
mounted just below the front derailleur, upon which I mount my computer
and my LED light.

[1] http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/produkte/sm/index_e.html
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

Wally,

Have a look at http://ryanownersclub.com/ for an alternative type of 'bent,
the LWB. Not very fashionable now (although Hase do make one
http://www.hase-bikes.com/ens/tagun/index.php )

If comfort is what you want I would definatly reccomend trying one of this
type. Other makes are Linear, Peer Gynt, Tour Easy.
Just look out for s/h. I would expect to pay 400-600 pounds.

SW

Alistair Gunn said:

On my (rather archaic) Streetmachine[1] I've got a Minoura Space Grip
mounted just below the front derailleur, upon which I mount my computer
and my LED light.

And for those without a handy Space Grip-equipped SM to look at, you can
see here just what it would look like:
<URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/stable/helga.html>

Hmm, I really must update some of those pictures. I no longer mount my
AirZound reservoir to the rack, it's sat in a bottle cage mounted under
the seat.

--
Danny Colyer (my reply address is valid but checked infrequently)
<URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
Subscribe to PlusNet <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/referral/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine