Steve Freides said:JMW said:Steve Freides said:"JMW" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Steve Freides wrote:
>> "JMW" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> > Steve Freides wrote:
>> >> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> >> > is not as good as Green Tea Extract. :-)
>> >> >
>> >> > Just started using GTE again this morning and OH what a
>> >> > difference,
>> >> > 1 hour pre-workout!!!
>> >> >
>> >> > No more Sugar Free Red Bull. It's too damned expensive
>> >> > anyway........
>> >>
>> >> I take it you're *not* using the decap version of green tea
>> >> extract.
>> >> 🙂
>> >
>> > Do I need to explain again that caffeine is NOT the primary
>> > stimulant,
>> > nor even a substantial stimulant, in green tea?
>>
>> Yes, you do. I don't find the green tea extract I take has a
>> stimulant
>> effect on me at all - maybe I don't take enough of it. I also
>> drink
>> the
>> stuff and don't find a stimulant effect from it that way, either.
>> Please do explain, thanks.
>
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/misc.fitness.weights/msg/5ce51f783f848816?dmode=source&hl=en
> (http://tinyurl.com/a7umt)Well that's Greek to me. Care to try it in lay-person English,
comparing a cup of coffee with a cup of green tea and a single
typical
green tea extract pill (I'll gladly post the notional content of the
ones I'm taking).OK, Steve, here's your simplification.
The best known major stimulant drug is amphetamine. Amphetamine works
by inhibiting the reuptake of certain neurotransmitters, primarily
dopamine (DA) and norepinephrine (NE), into the neurons from which
they
originated. You've heard of SSRIs, selective serotonin reuptake
inhibitors, that are used to treat depression? Same thing, except
amphetamine acts primarily on the reuptake of DA and NE (and a little
bit on serotonin, too). With that reuptake inhibited, there's plenty
more DA and NE swimming around to act as a stimulant in the brain.But reuptake is not the only way the body deals with too much DA, NE,
and serotonin (5HTP) swimming around. Monoamine oxidase (MAO) is an
enzyme that metabolizes DA, NE, 5HTP, and a few other
neurotransmitters
to make sure that there's not too much swimming around loose. Another
class of drugs used to treat depression are MAO inhibitors, which
inhibit the MAO enzyme, so once again, you have more DA, NE, and 5HTP
swimming around. That's why so many labels warn you not to take
certain stimulants with MAO inhibitors, since it might be a bad idea
to
take something that resulted in more DA and NE swimming around while
inhibiting the ability of MAO to metabolize it. Got that so far?Well, MAO isn't the only enzyme that helps metabolize stray
neurotransmitters. Catechol O-methyltransferase (COMT) also
metabolizes the catecholamine neurotransmitters: DA, NE, and
ephinephrine. That's where the green tea comes into play.Tea, whether green or black, doesn't have nearly as much caffeine as
coffee. A cup of coffee has about 100 mg of caffeine, while a cup of
black tea contains only about 40 to 50 mg per cup, and green tea
contains only about 20 to 30 mg per cup. Green tea and black tea come
from the same plant, but black tea is fermented. The fermentation
results in higher caffeine levels but lower levels of tea catechins.
The most plentiful tea catechin, prized for it's antioxidant
properties, is (-)-epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG), which I'm sure is
touted on your bottle of green tea extract. The best green teas, and
their extracts, have very low levels of caffeine and high levels of
EGCG.EGCG has been shown in several studies to have a direct inhibitory
effect on the enzyme COMT. By inhibiting COMT, once again, we have
more DA and NE swimming around. Basically, it has the same effect on
extracellular levels of DA and NE as amphetamine and MAO inhibitors,
just a different pathway, and in the long run, to a lesser extent.But you want to know how this compares to caffeine. OK ...
In one study, researchers gave the subjects capsules three times per
day: one group got a placebo, one group got a green tea extract that
was standardized to 50 mg caffeine and 90 mg EGCG, and one group got
just 50 mg of caffeine. They then measured urinary catecholamine
levels for each group. Over 24 hours, DA levels for the caffeine-only
group were about the same as placebo, but the green tea group had 19%
higher levels; NE levels for the caffeine-only group were about 17%
over placebo, but the green tea group had levels 37% higher than
placebo. Even more pronounced were the daytime levels: DA for
caffeine-only was 6% over placebo, but green tea was 22% over placebo,
while for NE, caffeine-only was 20% over placebo, and green tea was
38%
over placebo. Simply put, the EGCG in green tea is causing
significant
increases in stimulatory catecholamines, even in your decaffeinated
stuff.As to the difference between a cup of coffee, a cup of green tea, and
green tea extract, you can extrapolate that from what I've already
told
you. This is pretty simplified, but that's what you asked for.It's just barely simple enough for me - thanks. I will read it again
later and try to digest (no pun intended) it all.In the meantime, one more question - I've noticed (anecdotally, of
course) that not everyone responds the same way to caffeine. [censored] amount
seems to do more to some people than others. Does the same variation
among individuals exist in reactions to the agents in green tea?
I would suppose so, particularly because of the physiological action
of EGCG. Personal variations in levels of DA and/or NE, variations in
the expression of dopaminergic and/or adrengeric receptors, and
introduction of exogenous substances that increase the release of DA
and/or NE will probably be amplified by the COMT inhibition of EGCG
(and to a lesser extent, other tea catechins).