red light running

Tim Hall said:

Spooky. Just after the start of the same Dunwich Dynamo, the Cheating
Czech and I were stopped at some lights. The pizza delivery guy behind
us assured us we didn't have to stop for the red while on bikes.

Must be a Lunnon thing.

As you're a C+ refugee, the "other two" were Naggers and GruB, btw; they
may remember too.

In article <441da7b5.0@entanet>, Zog The Undeniable (hrothgar19

@yahoo.com) said:

A true story: on the way to the start of the Dunwich Dynamo last year
three of us stopped at a pelican crossing on Hackney Road. One of the
peds - a big West Indian guy - was flabbergasted. "You don't have to
stop at a red light if you're on a bike," he educated us, without a hint
of irony.

Another true story: on the way to the Nut Mines[1] this morning I
overtook a lady dibble, upon her bicycle, outside Bishopsgate police
station. A few hundred yards further down the road, the POB ahead of me
rode smartly through not one, but two red lights. I was halted at the
first of these, holding onto the railings as I have manifestly failed to
learn how to perform anything remotely resembling a trackstand on the
fixer, when Ms. Dibble squeezed between me and the taxi alongside and
gave chase. It was rather like one of those reality TV cop shows in
slow motion. Anyway, she caught up with the POB and visited some form
of Long Arm Of The /La/ stylee justice upon his wretched head.

I think I'm right in saying that I applauded (but later, when no-one was
watching).

1 - and what a nightmare 'twas, what with the Kingsland Road being
closed so the fire brigade could cut up a motorcar and some numtpy truck
driver parking outside the Market Porter in such a way that no other
motor vehicles could negotiate the corner. I think they must have let
them all out at once.

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
It is not possible to call a complex number from a phone box.

"Of course, cyclist filter lights could be fitted in places were
cyclists have their journey interupted for no reason other than to
control motor traffic. For example at certain left turns and straight
ahead at some T-junctions where traffic enters from the right. They
already have such priorities in some of London's bus lanes."

At the risk of getting my helmet torn off and lamped around the head, I've got to admit to going through red lights on a fairly frequent basis. I commute to work in a city, and there is a rat run through an estate i do which brings me out a junction which has lights but the minor road's lights I am on stays at red until triggered by a car I reckon, as I would be sat there all day if I didn't wait for a gap and go on red - safely. I do not consider myself a red light jumper as I only go through if I am sure there is nothing coming through opposing green lights or any pedestrians about, and if I wait for green at some really big junctions instead of getting a flyer when I know the lights are about to change, then I end up in the middle of the junction with cars coming from all directions at me. I also occasionnalyy turn left with a red light if I consider there is no danger to myself or other road users. There is a pedestrian crossing with lights on my way home on a long straight. If this goes red after a pedestrian has crossed and gone on his way, then i go through that. I quoted the above posting as i think that sort of thing needs changing, rather than having a go at every cyclist who goes through a red light. I have seen some people cycle through lights at what i consider a danger to themselves and other road users, and I'm sure some may think i do the same, but I'm not so sure and won't be signing as I think that that there are shades of grey and not everything can be seen in red and green terms.

I doubt we'd get complaints about red light running in general if it were
only the "stupid" lights that were crossed. It's the idiots that blatently
blast through the peds and other traffic on red that draw attention to the
victimless lawbreaking practised by others and make it hard to turn a blind
eye.

In article <[email hidden]>,
Chris Armstrong ([email hidden])

Quoted message said:

At the risk of getting my helmet torn off and lamped around the head,
I've got to admit to going through red lights on a fairly frequent
basis. I commute to work in a city, and there is a rat run through an
estate i do which brings me out a junction which has lights but the
minor road's lights I am on stays at red until triggered by a car I
reckon, as I would be sat there all day if I didn't wait for a gap and
go on red - safely.

I think it may be the case that it /is/ permissible to proceed with
caution through a red light if it is obviously not working properly.
And a traffic light incapable of sensing the presence of a bicycle is
clearly NOT working properly.

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
There ought to be a /La/ against it.

Chris Armstrong said:

estate i do which brings me out a junction which has lights but the
minor road's lights I am on stays at red until triggered by a car I
reckon, as I would be sat there all day if I didn't wait for a gap and
go on red - safely.

You reckon? Well, does it or doesn't it? If it /is/ only triggered by
a car and not your bike (appropriately positioned), then it is defective
and you may treat it as a stop sign - and you should inform the
appropriate authorities. If you're just using this as an excuse, then
stop it.

Quoted message said:

I do not consider myself a red light jumper as I
only go through if I am sure there is nothing coming through opposing
green lights or any pedestrians about,

What you consider yourself is immaterial. You ARE a red light jumper.

Quoted message said:

and if I wait for green at some
really big junctions instead of getting a flyer when I know the lights
are about to change, then I end up in the middle of the junction with
cars coming from all directions at me.

In which case you either need to control the other traffic (reading
Franklin helps, here), or avoid the junction if it bothers you that
much, or make representations to the authorities to improve the junction
in some way.

The problem is not so much your personal safety, or the personal safety
of any pedestrians about who you may or may not see, but the fact that
you are antagonising motorists who take out their antagonism on other
cyclists (which includes me).

You are an ambassador for cycling, every time you're on a bike, and by
acting in such a publicly cavalier attitude towards laws that don't suit
you, you lower the standing of all the other cyclists, and cyclists'
groups, in the eyes of the powers that be. That means that when either
individual cyclists or groups make representations to improve some
aspect of cycling, they are given much less weight, and thus the chance
of improving matters is made much harder, or even impossible - and due
in part to your attitude.

Quoted message said:

I quoted the above
posting [snipped by me - R.] as i think that sort of thing needs changing,

And as I've just pointed out, you've made no attempt yourself to change
it, and have made things very much harder for other people to get things
changed.

And, and this is what makes me particularly annoyed, you're not even
doing it for any great personal benefit; the time saved is minimal, and
any safety benefit is marginal.

R.

Richard said:

And as I've just pointed out, you've made no attempt yourself to change it, and have made things very much harder for other people to get things changed.

Well I knew I was laying myself open, but I have pointed out these problems to the council and I didn't get a reply, what else would you suggest (genuine question, not meant to be sarcastic).

Chris Armstrong said:

Well I knew I was laying myself open, but I have pointed out these
problems to the council and I didn't get a reply, what else would you
suggest (genuine question, not meant to be sarcastic).

Join the local cycle action group (or form one, if there isn't). Many
cycle action groups already have contacts in the council, and know the
best forms of leverage (from long and bitter experience). Write to your
local councillors and MP. In all correspondance, keep it concise and
clear, quote references, and suggest a solution (or you'll get some
numpty suggesting a solution for you). Pick your timing carefully - eg
in the run up to local elections, at the beginning of the financial year.

R.