Removing a stuck freewheel

bob prohaska's usenet account said:

Hi folks,

Some weeks ago the freewheel on my elderly Cannondale got sticky enough
to start winding up the chain tensioner springs, so I _knew_ it had to
be taken off and lubed. I had the cluster wrench, but applying seemingly
excessive torque refused to budge it. It's an old-style cluster, not
one of those newfangled cassette things. Applying Liquid Wrench to the
area didn't affect the mounting threads a bit, but it did loosen up
the freewheel enough to make the bike rideable, if a bit noisy when
coasting.

Now, with the luxury of time available, I'm wondering what to do. The
bike is old, the rims and hubs are old, and 27". The cogs and chainrings
are visibly worn, the chain is "feelably" worn, but everything works fine.
My instinct is to live with it for now, but I'm unsure what to do next.

The big puzzle is how to apply torque to the freewheel; when I mounted
it (~20 years ago) I turned the rim. Is there a better way? The wheels,
if antiquated, run true and tires are available. Somehow I can't see
wisdom in a major change (700C, new drivetrain) as the bike is just
used for commuting and exercise.

If it's a "turn it or break it, whichever comes first" situation,
that's what I'll do, but damaging the rear wheel seems like a recipe
for very expensive upgrades that won't pay dividends to a utility rider.

A clever way to hold the hub without stressing the wheel would be a
welcome way out!

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

Dear Bob,

A) Check that you're turning the correct direction. I once--er, I once
knew a guy who should have checked more carefully.

B) Consider a mallet for impact as opposed to mere heaving. A
comparatively modest tap can often break loose a frozen fastener that
resists impressive straining.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

bob prohaska's usenet account said:

Hi folks,

Some weeks ago the freewheel on my elderly Cannondale got sticky enough
to start winding up the chain tensioner springs, so I _knew_ it had to
be taken off and lubed. I had the cluster wrench, but applying seemingly
excessive torque refused to budge it. It's an old-style cluster, not
one of those newfangled cassette things. Applying Liquid Wrench to the
area didn't affect the mounting threads a bit, but it did loosen up
the freewheel enough to make the bike rideable, if a bit noisy when
coasting.

Now, with the luxury of time available, I'm wondering what to do. The
bike is old, the rims and hubs are old, and 27". The cogs and chainrings
are visibly worn, the chain is "feelably" worn, but everything works fine.
My instinct is to live with it for now, but I'm unsure what to do next.

Measure the chain to measure chain wear. A new chain
measures 12" over 12 link pairs. 12-1/8" is past time to
replace the chain; beyond that you have to replace more
parts.

You can often lube a freewheel without taking it off.
Drip light oil (not grease) into the front of the freewheel
between the rotating and non-rotating part. Rotate the
freewheel to get the oil in. This only fails on freewheels
with effective sealing (Sachs, perhaps).

If you need to get it off, take it to a bike shop, or clamp
the FW remover into a bench vise, or (my preferred
method) put a big wrench on the FW remover, place
the wheel with tire against a wall as if turning the wrench
would drive it into the wall, and use your foot to apply
torque to the wrench. As always, you must use a skewer
to clamp the remover on.

"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

bob prohaska's usenet account said:

Hi folks,

SNIP

clamp the FW remover into a bench vise, or (my preferred

Quoted message said:

method) put a big wrench on the FW remover, place
the wheel with tire against a wall as if turning the wrench
would drive it into the wall, and use your foot to apply
torque to the wrench. As always, you must use a skewer
to clamp the remover on.

When the freewheel remover is clamped in the vise grab the rim and turn the
wheel counterclockwise...

Grease the threads before putting the freewheel back on.

Rich

Richard B said:

When the freewheel remover is clamped in the vise grab the rim and turn the
wheel counterclockwise...

That's what I did, the vise moved on its pivot. Then I put a flexhandle
on the remover and tried holding the rim. No luck.

I'm worried about putting that much torque on the rim, but if that's the
best way it's time to go for broke. I hoped there might be a tool to hold
the hub.

Quoted message said:

Grease the threads before putting the freewheel back on.

Wish I'd done that, 19 years ago 8-)

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

1. Mount freewheel remover in a vice, facing the ceiling.
2. place wheel on freewheel remover, grasp with both hands, and
turn. If the wheel is QR, tighten the QR's all but 1-2 mm to protect
the freewheel remover from coming loose.
3. Don't forget to un-tighten the QRs if it comes loose !!

===

If the freewheel doesn't come loose, try laying the wheel out in the
sun for a week or two. I know of a guy on www.bikelist.org who tried
this, and the hot-cold cycling of the steel : aluminum interface tends
to dislodge any electrochemical welding, so that after 5-10 cycles it
should be easier to remove the freewheel.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

"bob prohaska's usenet account" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Richard B said:

When the freewheel remover is clamped in the vise grab the rim and turn

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wheel counterclockwise...

That's what I did, the vise moved on its pivot. Then I put a flexhandle
on the remover and tried holding the rim. No luck.

I'm worried about putting that much torque on the rim, but if that's the
best way it's time to go for broke. I hoped there might be a tool to hold
the hub.

Get (or borrow) a bigger vice.

Make sure the remover is snug.

Tighten the vice like you _mean_ it.

Inflate the tyre for a better grip, and turn the rim - apply torque as
suddenly and as forcefully as you can. It's the peak torque that you
generate that will break it free, and you can get a bigger peak if it
doesn't has to last long or come on slowly.

You are not at all likely to bend the wheel, but 20 years of leg torque
pushing those threads together will need some undoing, especially if the
freewheel core is steel (likely) and the hub body aluminium (also likely).

jtaylor said:

Get (or borrow) a bigger vice.

Make sure the remover is snug.

Tighten the vice like you _mean_ it.

Inflate the tyre for a better grip, and turn the rim - apply torque as
suddenly and as forcefully as you can.

Work gloves might be useful when doing this.

JT

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bob prohaska's usenet account said:

Now, with the luxury of time available, I'm wondering what to do. The
bike is old, the rims and hubs are old, and 27". The cogs and chainrings
are visibly worn, the chain is "feelably" worn, but everything works fine.
My instinct is to live with it for now, but I'm unsure what to do next.

The big puzzle is how to apply torque to the freewheel; when I mounted
it (~20 years ago) I turned the rim.

Putting a freewheel on is easy. You can put it on finger tight; the first
time you ride it, it will become very tight indeed.

Removing it is best done with a bench vice. Place the freewheel-removing
tool on the freewheel, engaging the splines or the notches (whichever it
is), then thread through a quick-release skewer and tighten it down
snugly, but not tight. Then clamp the freewheel tool in the vice, grab
the tire/rim with both hands, and turn (counterclockwise, the usual way to
loosen threaded things) as hard as you can. Get a buddy to help if it
won't budge. Loosen the freewheel some after it begins to move. Once you
get a few turns off, it should unscrew by hand.

You have 20 years of riding on that, tightening it up. It will be very
hard to remove. But you probably won't break the wheel unless it was
already damaged.

However, if you replace the chain -- which is long past due, no doubt ---
you will find that the chain "skips" when you pedal hard, at least in your
favorite gear combination. A 20-year-old cluster either hasn't been
ridden on much at all, or is way past worn out. If the new chain skips,
you have to replace the freewheel. Never fear, though, you can replace
it, and it is fairly cheap. Besides, if it is all gummed up it may not be
possible to get it clean enough to work reliably.

Me, I'd replace it without bothering to check whether the new chain skips.
Replace the chain, too. Total cost will be < $50. Check with Sheldon
Brown at Harris Cyclery for the best selection/prices/knowledge. Now, the
only concern left is whether the chainrings are so worn that they will
cause chain skip. If they are steel, you are probably safe. It's worth
taking a shot, anyway, since chainrings are more expensive, and 20+
year-old ones might be hard to find.

If you do try to clean the freewheel, don't take it apart. Clean off
the cogs first, then soak it in solvent, try to work as much junk out
as you can, dry it out, and fill up the inside with oil.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not
_`\(,_ | certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to
(_)/ (_) | reality. -- Albert Einstein

bob prohaska's usenet account said:

Richard B said:

When the freewheel remover is clamped in the vise grab the rim and turn the
wheel counterclockwise...

That's what I did, the vise moved on its pivot. Then I put a flexhandle
on the remover and tried holding the rim. No luck.

I'm worried about putting that much torque on the rim, but if that's the
best way it's time to go for broke. I hoped there might be a tool to hold
the hub.

Quoted message said:

Grease the threads before putting the freewheel back on.

Wish I'd done that, 19 years ago 8-)

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

Remember, with the freewheel tool in the vice it's counterclockwise when
viewed from the top (to remove).

I use a large crescent wrench (14"😉 and no vice. Secure the freewheel
remover tool on the wheel with the QD. Then turn the wrench/tool in the
same direction as a normal screw (Right hand thread, counterclockwise
when viewed from the remover end) apply torque to the wrench. If this
doesn't work hit the end of the wrench with a hammer.

HTH,
EJ in NJ

bob prohaska's usenet account said:

Hi folks,

Some weeks ago the freewheel on my elderly Cannondale got sticky enough
to start winding up the chain tensioner springs, so I _knew_ it had to
be taken off and lubed.

Why? I've never yet had one of them resist my efforts at lube
application from the small-sprocket end.

Quoted message said:

I had the cluster wrench, but applying seemingly
excessive torque refused to budge it. It's an old-style cluster, not
one of those newfangled cassette things. Applying Liquid Wrench to the
area didn't affect the mounting threads a bit, but it did loosen up
the freewheel enough to make the bike rideable, if a bit noisy when
coasting.

And a few more drops of regular oil, applied and allowed to sink in,
should complete the job. If the freewheel's sprockets are not worn
out, there's no need to do anything else...but how long has it been
since you lubed the wheel bearings?

Quoted message said:

Now, with the luxury of time available, I'm wondering what to do. The
bike is old, the rims and hubs are old, and 27". The cogs and chainrings
are visibly worn, the chain is "feelably" worn, but everything works fine.
My instinct is to live with it for now, but I'm unsure what to do next.

The big puzzle is how to apply torque to the freewheel; when I mounted
it (~20 years ago) I turned the rim. Is there a better way? The wheels,
if antiquated, run true and tires are available. Somehow I can't see
wisdom in a major change (700C, new drivetrain) as the bike is just
used for commuting and exercise.

Hint: To remove a really stubborn freewheel, take the tool and the
wheel to any auto repair shop and ask them to use an impact wrench to
spin the freewheel off.

Second hint: If it's 20 years old, and has been ridden regularly, the
chain's probably worn out...but there's a good chance that the
freewheel is worn out as well. At that age, even the front sprockets
may be beyond service limits.

Quoted message said:

If it's a "turn it or break it, whichever comes first" situation,
that's what I'll do, but damaging the rear wheel seems like a recipe
for very expensive upgrades that won't pay dividends to a utility rider.

27" sheels are easy to get. No need to change sizes.

Quoted message said:

A clever way to hold the hub without stressing the wheel would be a
welcome way out!

No need to get clever, beyond using an impact wrench. I've never
damaged a wheel that way, nor had a freewheel fail to come off.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

jtaylor said:

Get (or borrow) a bigger vice.

Make sure the remover is snug.

Tighten the vice like you _mean_ it.

Inflate the tyre for a better grip, and turn the rim - apply torque
as suddenly and as forcefully as you can.

Work gloves might be useful when doing this.

{8 lines of sig snipped}

What, appropriate protective gear?!? Risk compensation! Risk compensation!

(BTW, was impressed with all your pics of various helmet types. Rather
makes one wonder why you'd rant against them so.)

:-D :-P <eg> :o) 8-) 8-O

jtaylor said:

Get (or borrow) a bigger vice.

Make sure the remover is snug.

Tighten the vice like you _mean_ it.

Inflate the tyre for a better grip, and turn the rim - apply torque as
suddenly and as forcefully as you can. It's the peak torque that you
generate that will break it free, and you can get a bigger peak if it
doesn't has to last long or come on slowly.

Make sure the vice is securely fastened to the workbench, and the
workbench is securely fastened to the wall. It's possible to tip over
the entire workbench, spilling the entire project all over the garage
floor.

Don't ask me how I know this...

Jeff

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill Sornson said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

jtaylor said:

Get (or borrow) a bigger vice.

Make sure the remover is snug.

Tighten the vice like you _mean_ it.

Inflate the tyre for a better grip, and turn the rim - apply torque
as suddenly and as forcefully as you can.

Work gloves might be useful when doing this.

{8 lines of sig snipped}

Net Nanny

Quoted message said:

What, appropriate protective gear?!? Risk compensation! Risk compensation!

(BTW, was impressed with all your pics of various helmet types. Rather
makes one wonder why you'd rant against them so.)

:-D :-P <eg> :o) 8-) 8-O

Aw, Bill, leave it be. Bob is asking for help on a free
wheel, and does not need this.

--
Michael Press

[email hidden] (Donald Gillies) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Snip

Quoted message said:

===

If the freewheel doesn't come loose, try laying the wheel out in the
sun for a week or two. I know of a guy on www.bikelist.org who tried
this, and the hot-cold cycling of the steel : aluminum interface tends
to dislodge any electrochemical welding, so that after 5-10 cycles it
should be easier to remove the freewheel.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Another suggestion:

Per Sheldon Brown's article on removing s stuck aluminum seatposts
( http://sheldonbrown.com/stuck-seatposts.html )...

"Aluminum seatposts frequently become stuck by corrosion also, and
penetrating oil is almost useless against aluminum oxide. Fortunately,
aluminum oxide can be dissolved like magic by using ammonia."

Maybe this will work with a steel freewheel stuck to an aluminum hub.

Rich

What are you talking about?

JeffWills said:

jtaylor said:

Get (or borrow) a bigger vice.

Make sure the remover is snug.

Tighten the vice like you _mean_ it.

Inflate the tyre for a better grip, and turn the rim - apply torque as
suddenly and as forcefully as you can. It's the peak torque that you
generate that will break it free, and you can get a bigger peak if it
doesn't has to last long or come on slowly.

Make sure the vice is securely fastened to the workbench, and the
workbench is securely fastened to the wall. It's possible to tip over
the entire workbench, spilling the entire project all over the garage
floor.

Don't ask me how I know this...

.....I can imagine!

I have never encountered a "stuck" freewheel that could not be removed
with the vise + skewer method. But, I have always used a large vise
that was bolted to a bench with said bench bolted to the floor or the
floor and the wall.

bob prohaska's usenet account said:

Some weeks ago the freewheel on my elderly Cannondale got sticky enough
to start winding up the chain tensioner springs, so I _knew_ it had to
be taken off and lubed.

No, you do NOT need to remvoe it to lube it!

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/freewheels

Quoted message said:

I had the cluster wrench, but applying seemingly
excessive torque refused to budge it. It's an old-style cluster, not
one of those newfangled cassette things.

That article also has strategies for removing recalcitrant freewheels,
but you really don't need to do it.

Sheldon "Well Enough Alone" Brown
+--------------------------------------------+
| To see what is in front of one's nose |
| needs a constant struggle |
| --George Orwell |
+--------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

1/8" per foot
or 3/16th's per chain foot?

HEAT! burnum crow!
map gas map gas till the sucker catchs on fire forgetabbout smoke.
the freewheel tool was not cast using the word cast in a scatological
sense with strenth in mind-freewheel tools have the strength of erector
set materials. I have a nice 5 speed. want it?
I rebuilt two freewheels to find that that's a waste of time but an
interesting experience golly
to the conclusion that throwing the wheel out is the best idea.
buy a set of vectors from nashbar
27" is obsolete and that is relevant to brownies quote