Replace cone/cup bearing with casette bearing (rollerskate-type)?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Flatline, Feb 14, 2003.

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  1. Flatline

    Flatline Guest

    Hi! The cup in my rear mtb-wheel bearing has become seriously pitted - found a little piece of rock
    inside last time I regreased it... It is a no-name traditional cone/cup bearing from a cheap wheel.
    Everybody tells me that the it's doomed, but evenso I would like to try to repair it. I remember
    reading somewhere about putting "angular contact bearings" ("rollerskate-type" bearings) inside the
    dammaged cup as a fix. But I simply can't remember where - I have trawled Google-groups back and
    forth with no luck.

    The idea imho. makes good sense as there is plenty of space inside the bearing once the dustcap is
    removed. Has any of you tried this procedure or know where I can find some info on it?

    Next step for me will probably be to meassure the inside diameter of the cup and the diameter of the
    axle and see if I can find some bearings that fits. Im not quite sure wich type to look for or where
    to buy them but http://www.skf.com looks like a good place to start.

    Regards Lars

    Any comnets are much apreciated
     
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  2. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "Flatline" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hi! The cup in my rear mtb-wheel bearing has become seriously pitted - found a little piece of
    > rock inside last time I regreased it... It is a no-name traditional cone/cup bearing from a cheap
    > wheel. Everybody tells me that the it's doomed, but evenso I would like to try to repair it. I
    > remember reading somewhere about putting "angular contact bearings" ("rollerskate-type" bearings)
    > inside the dammaged cup as a fix. But I simply can't remember where - I have trawled Google-groups
    > back and forth with no luck.
    >
    > The idea imho. makes good sense as there is plenty of space inside the bearing once the dustcap is
    > removed. Has any of you tried this procedure or know where I can find some info on it?
    >
    > Next step for me will probably be to meassure the inside diameter of the cup and the diameter of
    > the axle and see if I can find some bearings that fits. Im not quite sure wich type to look for or
    > where to buy them but http://www.skf.com looks like a good place to start.

    As an interesting project ( assuming there's no hourly billing involved!) even a basic hub can be
    reworked to use a cartridge bearing with some limitations.

    First off, rear hub cups are remarkable similar so you might first try to replace your cup. I assume
    it's a freewheel hub so remove the freewheel. Now diassemble the axle set from the left so you
    retain the right-side spacing. WIth a hub cup tool, knock out the cup. Here's the tool:
    http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/HUBCUPTL.JPG The official (broken ) tool is on the
    left. The better homemade tools are easily fabricated from a worn-out allen key.

    Get a scrap wheel form behind the local bike shop that has a similar hub and do the same . Compare
    the cups and you'll usually find them interchangeable. Press in the salvage cup, add new balls and
    fresh grease and ride away!

    To change your hub to cartridge bearings, once your cup is out, look for a bearing that's the same
    OD and 10mm ID. It will be something like 6200 or thereabouts. You can slide the bearing into your
    hub and use some axle locknuts to bring the axle spacing back to where you started. Because your
    bearing will slip loosely on the axle, there will unavoidably be play. It could work but it will
    not be great.

    Moreover, when you are locking the two locknuts on the axle, be very careful not to put pressure
    against the bearing. A well-designed cartridge bearing axle set has an inner seat, so screwing the
    locknut home presses the bearing's inner sleeve against that axle seat. In your case, the locknut
    presses on the inner sleeve, _across the bearing _, and then against the outer sleeve seated in the
    hubshell. There isn't room to put locknuts behind the bearing. A customer's effort to add a spot
    weld on the axle ended up in the wrong place. After filing, the axle bent at the weld. YMMV.
    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  3. Almost Fast

    Almost Fast Guest

    Older Specialized and Sansin sealed bearing hubs came with a "sleeve nut" that takes the place of a
    cone. The sleeve supports the sealed bearing's inner race. See
    http://tandem-fahren.de/Technik/Nabe/sansin.gif for a sketch. It's on the left, labelled Lagersitz
    (bearing seat).

    Sansin's sleeve nut ID is threaded M10x1, so it threads on your axle. The OD is 12mm, so it slips
    into a 12mm ID sealed bearing.

    Maybe you could buy or make something similar.

    "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Flatline" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Hi! The cup in my rear mtb-wheel bearing has become seriously pitted - found a little piece of
    > > rock inside last time I regreased it... It is a no-name traditional cone/cup bearing from a
    > > cheap wheel. Everybody tells me that the it's doomed, but evenso I would like to try to repair
    > > it. I remember reading somewhere about putting "angular contact bearings" ("rollerskate-type"
    > > bearings) inside the dammaged cup as a fix. But I simply can't remember where - I have trawled
    > > Google-groups back and forth with no luck.
    > >
    > > The idea imho. makes good sense as there is plenty of space inside the bearing once the dustcap
    > > is removed. Has any of you tried this procedure or know where I can find some info on it?
    > >
    > > Next step for me will probably be to meassure the inside diameter of the cup and the diameter of
    > > the axle and see if I can find some bearings that fits. Im not quite sure wich type to look for
    > > or where to buy them but http://www.skf.com looks like a good place to start.
    >
    >
    > As an interesting project ( assuming there's no hourly billing involved!) even a basic hub can be
    > reworked to use a cartridge bearing with some limitations.
    >
    > First off, rear hub cups are remarkable similar so you might first try to replace your cup. I
    > assume it's a freewheel hub so remove the freewheel. Now diassemble the axle set from the left so
    > you retain the right-side spacing. WIth a hub cup tool, knock out the cup. Here's the tool:
    > http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/HUBCUPTL.JPG The official (broken ) tool is on the
    > left. The better homemade tools are easily fabricated from a worn-out allen key.
    >
    > Get a scrap wheel form behind the local bike shop that has a similar hub and do the same . Compare
    > the cups and you'll usually find them interchangeable. Press in the salvage cup, add new balls and
    > fresh grease and ride away!
    >
    > To change your hub to cartridge bearings, once your cup is out, look for a bearing that's the same
    > OD and 10mm ID. It will be something like 6200 or thereabouts. You can slide the bearing into your
    > hub and use some axle locknuts to bring the axle spacing back to where you started. Because your
    > bearing will slip loosely on the axle, there will unavoidably be play. It could work but it will
    > not be great.
    >
    > Moreover, when you are locking the two locknuts on the axle, be very careful not to put pressure
    > against the bearing. A well-designed cartridge bearing axle set has an inner seat, so screwing the
    > locknut home presses the bearing's inner sleeve against that axle seat. In your case, the locknut
    > presses on the inner sleeve, _across the bearing _, and then against the outer sleeve seated in
    > the hubshell. There isn't room to put locknuts behind the bearing. A customer's effort to add a
    > spot weld on the axle ended up in the wrong place. After filing, the axle bent at the weld. YMMV.
     
  4. On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 21:26:50 -0600, "A Muzi" <[email protected]>

    Described how to replace hub bearing cups:

    >
    >Get a scrap wheel form behind the local bike shop that has a similar hub and do the same . Compare
    >the cups and you'll usually find them interchangeable. Press in the salvage cup, add new balls and
    >fresh grease and ride away!
    >

    Does this work on current or recent Shimano hubs?? Is anyone out there replacing their Shimano hub
    bearing cups? Does this procedure require more than one of those ground-down allen keys? If ya'll
    tell me this can be done, count yourselves as my personal Prometheuses. I'll stick with my wonderful
    7-speed freehub forever, or at least well into the 2020's!!!!

    Jennifer D
     
  5. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "Jennifer Donleavy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 21:26:50 -0600, "A Muzi" <[email protected]>
    >
    > Described how to replace hub bearing cups:
    >
    > >
    > >Get a scrap wheel form behind the local bike shop that has a similar hub
    and
    > >do the same . Compare the cups and you'll usually find them
    interchangeable.
    > >Press in the salvage cup, add new balls and fresh grease and ride away!
    > >
    >
    > Does this work on current or recent Shimano hubs?? Is anyone out there replacing their Shimano hub
    > bearing cups? Does this procedure require more than one of those ground-down allen keys? If ya'll
    > tell me this can be done, count yourselves as my personal Prometheuses. I'll stick with my
    > wonderful 7-speed freehub forever, or at least well into the 2020's!!!!
    >
    > Jennifer D

    Yes, most rear hubs that take nine 1/4" bearings use similar cups.

    The job was once common but now that cups are no longer readily available it's nearly unknown. I
    sell complete standard wheels for about the same cost as replacing a single Record hub cup.

    Yes you need only make one of the cup tools. Tap against the inside lip of the cup. Modern hubs
    seldom have a nice ample relief behind the cup so this can be hard to start. You'll need to shape
    the tool carefully to fit in what space you have. Try to remove the cup evenly by tapping all
    around the cup.

    A simple press can be made from a large bolt to install the replacement cup. If the cup was worn, do
    inspect the cones carefully and replace if damaged. Finish with a new set of bearings and plenty of
    fresh grease.

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  6. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Jennifer Donleavy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 21:26:50 -0600, "A Muzi" <[email protected]>
    > >
    > > Described how to replace hub bearing cups:
    > >
    > > >
    > > >Get a scrap wheel form behind the local bike shop that has a similar
    hub
    > and
    > > >do the same . Compare the cups and you'll usually find them
    > interchangeable.
    > > >Press in the salvage cup, add new balls and fresh grease and ride away!
    > > >
    > >
    > > Does this work on current or recent Shimano hubs?? Is anyone out there replacing their Shimano
    > > hub bearing cups? Does this procedure require more than one of those ground-down allen keys? If
    > > ya'll tell me this can be done, count yourselves as my personal Prometheuses. I'll stick with my
    > > wonderful 7-speed freehub forever, or at least well into the 2020's!!!!
    > >
    > > Jennifer D
    >
    > Yes, most rear hubs that take nine 1/4" bearings use similar cups.
    >
    > The job was once common but now that cups are no longer readily available it's nearly unknown. I
    > sell complete standard wheels for about the same cost as replacing a single Record hub cup.

    That's the rub, isn't it? Reasonable labor rates make repairing almost anything cost-ineffective. Ad
    to that the cost of obscure replacement parts .... don't get me wrong, I don't like living in a
    throw-away society and do my best to salvage things, but sometimes ya just gotta give in.

    > Yes you need only make one of the cup tools. Tap against the inside lip
    of
    > the cup. Modern hubs seldom have a nice ample relief behind the cup so
    this
    > can be hard to start. You'll need to shape the tool carefully to fit in what space you have. Try
    > to remove the cup evenly by tapping all around
    the
    > cup.
    >
    > A simple press can be made from a large bolt to install the replacement
    cup.
    > If the cup was worn, do inspect the cones carefully and replace if
    damaged.
    > Finish with a new set of bearings and plenty of fresh grease.
    >
    > --
    > Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
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