replacement cartrage bearings

i have two racked. also recently bought chinese grade 25 ball bearings
to use in twice yearly cone/ball hub repacks. the cost savings over
western mil spec as from harris is considerable but the chromium is
largelee absent: we accept the interior as the exteriornd the anterior
as the posterior both medially and laterally but sometimes we check for
nitrous oxide.
on the other foot, the complex catridge bearing
when it comes apart
is an ugly affair
and best avoided
at what?
all costs!

Quoted message said:

when it comes apart
is an ugly affair
and best avoided
at what?
all costs!

So... what was the point of your post?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

john said:

Hi there
I have two mid '80s specialized hubs that need new 6001 cartridge
bearings.

I can buy an Endero ABEC (I think?) 5 bearing for $12. (about $50 for
4)
Or I can buy SKF no ABEC rating the same money.
The more I study cartridge bearings the more confused I get.

Quoted message said:

From what I think I understand, the ABEC numbers have nothing to do w/

how smooth the balls and races are, or how tight the interior
tolerances are. What the higher ABEC numbers give is finer exterior
tolerances. Which strikes me as absurd.

Is there a reader of this group who has considerable experience w/ the
ABEC system and that is absolutely certain of his/her knowledge of
cartridge bearings?

google is your friend - info on the abec system is out there in abundance.

Quoted message said:

If so are my above statements correct?

Finally, most important, which is the better buy?
BTW, the Endros are made in China, Which usually doesn't mean lead high
quality.

Thank in advance, John

get the skf's. if quality is the name of the game, skf are some of the
best you can buy.

john said:

I have two mid '80s specialized hubs that need new 6001 cartridge
bearings.

I can buy an Endero ABEC (I think?) 5 bearing for $12. (about $50 for
4)
Or I can buy SKF no ABEC rating the same money.

Enduro bearings are intended specifically for bikes, and as such they
are filled with a larger amount of more waterproof grase than would be
the case for an electric motor bearing. They should be cheaper than
the price you mention-- Harris Cyclery (a great shop but not a discount
shop) has 6001 bearings for $7 each. Any local shop in your area
should have an account with QBP and will be able to get them to you for
about the same price as Harris.

http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&SKU=BB6001

Enduro Max bearings are full-complement bearings which carry more load
and cost more than regular Conrad-type cartridge bearings such as the
Enduro. They will not necessarily work any better or last any longer
than Conrad bearings, though, so you should only get them if you
believe that you load your bearings close to their limits.

SKF bearings are of top quality, but they are not generally intended
for vehicular use, so their lubrication could deteriorate more quickly
than that of an Enduro bearing.

I have had fine luck with Enduro bearings and with well-made German,
Japanese, and US bearing cartridges. I have gotten completely
satisfactory service from cheap Korean and Chinese bearings as well,
though they rarely seem quite as butter-smooth as the big bearing
houses' wares.

The most important thing is to take care installing the bearings,
pressing them straight in with only as much force as necessary, so that
the integrity of the races is maintained.

Chalo Colina

Dans le message de
news:[email hidden],
Chalo <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

I have had fine luck with Enduro bearings and with well-made German,
Japanese, and US bearing cartridges. I have gotten completely
satisfactory service from cheap Korean and Chinese bearings as well,
though they rarely seem quite as butter-smooth as the big bearing
houses' wares.

The most important thing is to take care installing the bearings,
pressing them straight in with only as much force as necessary, so
that the integrity of the races is maintained.

Chalo Colina

What do you do to your bearings that you get such short life !?
You say you have 17 bikes ; if you ride each 500 miles a year, and have all
of them for 10 years, then how are you using up the bearings ? A 5,000 mile
service life seems short to me.

Or are you speaking about bikes that are not yours, but that you repaired ?
--
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine
*******

La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
-- Einstein, A.

Sandy said:

Dans le message de
news:[email hidden],
Chalo <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

I have had fine luck with Enduro bearings and with well-made German,
Japanese, and US bearing cartridges. I have gotten completely
satisfactory service from cheap Korean and Chinese bearings as well,
though they rarely seem quite as butter-smooth as the big bearing
houses' wares.

The most important thing is to take care installing the bearings,
pressing them straight in with only as much force as necessary, so
that the integrity of the races is maintained.

Quoted message said:

What do you do to your bearings that you get such short life !?

Loading them with twice the weight of the average bicyclist and,
apparently, then proceeding to do serious mountainbiking with it (ie,
jumps from heights I'd blanch at, that sort of thing). Chalo is sort of
the ultimate stress test for bike parts.

Jasper

Sandy said:

What do you do to your bearings that you get such short life !?
You say you have 17 bikes ; if you ride each 500 miles a year, and have all
of them for 10 years, then how are you using up the bearings ? A 5,000 mile
service life seems short to me.

Or are you speaking about bikes that are not yours, but that you repaired ?

I used to work as a shop mechanic. Now, bikes are just my hobby-- but
I belong to a chopper club whose members recognize my experince with
certain things, including cartridge bearings. And finally, since my
bikes must bear total weights from just above 400 lbs. (for a
lightweight single bike) to about 1000 lbs. (3-wheeled sidecar rickshaw
with 2 passenger seats), they are apt to go through bearings a bit
faster than most people's bikes.

Note that not all cartridge bearing hubs are created equal; some cause
the bearings to be axially preloaded on installation, and these display
much shorter bearing life than those whose bearings are not axially
preloaded.

Note also that in my experience, cartridge bearings tend to outlast hub
cones by a large margin.

Chalo Colina

Chalo wrote:
are you speaking about bikes that are not yours, but that you repaired
?

Quoted message said:

I used to work as a shop mechanic. Now, bikes are just my hobby-- but
I belong to a chopper club whose members recognize my experince with
certain things, including cartridge bearings. And finally, since my
bikes must bear total weights from just above 400 lbs. (for a
lightweight single bike) to about 1000 lbs. (3-wheeled sidecar rickshaw
with 2 passenger seats), they are apt to go through bearings a bit
faster than most people's bikes.

Note that not all cartridge bearing hubs are created equal; some cause
the bearings to be axially preloaded on installation, and these display
much shorter bearing life than those whose bearings are not axially
preloaded.

Note also that in my experience, cartridge bearings tend to outlast hub
cones by a large margin.

Chalo Colina

Thanks much to all, for the good info.
I was asking to some extent for the pure knowledge of the ABEC
specification. Prior to posting, I had spent a few hours on line
studying this, and I'm still not clear on whether the spec relates to
the interior quality (or smoothness) of cartridge bearings, or not.
Also, I believe that the Endro bearings @ Harris for ~$7 are not the
Endro
ABEC 5, which I referred to. However I am going to take your advice &
buy the Endro bearings.

Again thanks, John

John! take the bearing and the questions to the bearing supply
house-search thru Mapquest thru google search
also try "loosescrews" and "biketoolsect"

Chalo said:

Sandy said:

What do you do to your bearings that you get such short life !?
You say you have 17 bikes ; if you ride each 500 miles a year, and have all
of them for 10 years, then how are you using up the bearings ? A 5,000 mile
service life seems short to me.

Or are you speaking about bikes that are not yours, but that you repaired ?

I used to work as a shop mechanic. Now, bikes are just my hobby-- but
I belong to a chopper club whose members recognize my experince with
certain things, including cartridge bearings. And finally, since my
bikes must bear total weights from just above 400 lbs. (for a
lightweight single bike) to about 1000 lbs. (3-wheeled sidecar rickshaw
with 2 passenger seats), they are apt to go through bearings a bit
faster than most people's bikes.

generic 6001 bearing are rated about 550-lbs *each*, SKF 1100-lbs.

Quoted message said:

Note that not all cartridge bearing hubs are created equal; some cause
the bearings to be axially preloaded on installation, and these display
much shorter bearing life than those whose bearings are not axially
preloaded.

Note also that in my experience, cartridge bearings tend to outlast hub
cones by a large margin.

Chalo Colina

B.C. Cletta said:

generic 6001 bearing are rated about 550-lbs *each*, SKF 1100-lbs.

Bearing ratings are a guideline based on certain assembly standards,
for example housing material, press fit interference dimension, shaft
stiffness, and axial alignment. Bicycles are less than ideal in all
these respects, so the real world capacities and lifespan of their
bearings will differ from spec.

I expect that along with SKF's higher load rating comes a more tightly
constrained installation, though there's no doubt that premium
materials and processing help a bearing tolerate higher loads.

Chalo Colina

Chalo Colina said:

Quoted message said:

generic 6001 bearing are rated about 550-lbs *each*, SKF 1100-lbs.

Quoted message said:

Bearing ratings are a guideline based on certain assembly standards,
for example housing material, press fit interference dimension,
shaft stiffness, and axial alignment. Bicycles are less than ideal
in all these respects, so the real world capacities and lifespan of
their bearings will differ from spec.

Quoted message said:

I expect that along with SKF's higher load rating comes a more
tightly constrained installation, though there's no doubt that
premium materials and processing help a bearing tolerate higher
loads.

I think you'll find a large difference in life and load carrying
ability between the cartridges commonly used and ones with a ball size
of 5/32" for front axles and 1/4" for rear of typical cup and cone
used in such bicycle hubs.

Cartridge bearings are preferably used with axial preload for the
purpose of simulating radial preload that cannot be readily achieved
otherwise. Three effects of cartridge bearings is that make them less
than what they at first seem to be:

1. They are not full complement bearings, being eccentrically loaded.
That is, they have fewer than a full load of bearing balls as cup
and cone beraings generally do.

2. Their "seals" are air dams to prevent centrifugal air pumping so
that their lubricant does not become dirty flypaper from the air.

3. They have no radial preload and for the same radial space have smaller
bearing balls.

The seals are not designed to exclude water as is often believed.

Jobst Brandt

spend money here - avoid suffering

and avoid insulting harris for discounts
harris is strictly boutique
and if insulted
they'll take it out on everyone calling
for weeks

Colina sez-"Note also that in my experience, cartridge bearings tend to
outlast hub
cones by a large margin."
reason why? the bearing path is constrained and not allowed to go
elliptical as with ball/cone?
1-2-3-from brandt-i'd wondered about that while repacking wheel
bearings
are axle roller bearing cartridges applicable to cycles? the timkens in
the m40 are like wow!
the difference tween the skf and enduro shows up often- $ sometimes
delivers special apps but not your application.
is there room to add your own seal?

Quoted message said:

Colina sez-"Note also that in my experience, cartridge bearings tend to
outlast hub
cones by a large margin."
reason why? the bearing path is constrained and not allowed to go
elliptical as with ball/cone?

Cartridge bearings almost always have better finish, tolerances, and
materials than cup & cone. Most hub cups don't even have ground
surfaces, and they are relatively thin races poorly backed by the
aluminum hub shell, often not even conformally.

Most cartridge bearings have some noteworthy amount of race stiffness
intrinsic to their structures, and this stiffness is added to by the
hub shell rather than almost wholly being provided by it.

The lubrication in cartridge bearings tend to stay a lot cleaner, a lot
longer than that of cup & cone. (This is comparing like with like,
e.g. hubs with exposed cartridge shields vs. cup & cone hubs that have
rudimentary dust shields, or cartridge hubs with external shields like
the OP's Specialized hubs vs. contact + labyrinth sealed cup & cone
hubs like the better Shimano models.)

Chalo Colina

Chalo said:

Quoted message said:

Colina sez-"Note also that in my experience, cartridge bearings tend
to outlast hub
cones by a large margin."
reason why? the bearing path is constrained and not allowed to go
elliptical as with ball/cone?

Cartridge bearings almost always have better finish, tolerances, and
materials than cup & cone. Most hub cups don't even have ground
surfaces, and they are relatively thin races poorly backed by the
aluminum hub shell, often not even conformally.

Most cartridge bearings have some noteworthy amount of race stiffness
intrinsic to their structures, and this stiffness is added to by the
hub shell rather than almost wholly being provided by it.

The lubrication in cartridge bearings tend to stay a lot cleaner, a
lot longer than that of cup & cone. (This is comparing like with
like, e.g. hubs with exposed cartridge shields vs. cup & cone hubs
that have rudimentary dust shields, or cartridge hubs with external
shields like the OP's Specialized hubs vs. contact + labyrinth sealed
cup & cone hubs like the better Shimano models.)

Chalo Colina

Speaking of carts, I have a front American Classic Micro 58 hub with
absolutely no sealing methods whatsoever. The bearing is fully visible from
outside, and I was wondering if there would be any kind of seal I could add
to it... would a simple o-ring suffice, or would I need a more conformal
sealing shape?

The rear seems to look a bit better.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Quoted message said:

Chalo Colina said:

Quoted message said:

generic 6001 bearing are rated about 550-lbs *each*, SKF 1100-lbs.

Quoted message said:

Bearing ratings are a guideline based on certain assembly standards,
for example housing material, press fit interference dimension,
shaft stiffness, and axial alignment. Bicycles are less than ideal
in all these respects, so the real world capacities and lifespan of
their bearings will differ from spec.

Quoted message said:

I expect that along with SKF's higher load rating comes a more
tightly constrained installation, though there's no doubt that
premium materials and processing help a bearing tolerate higher
loads.

I think you'll find a large difference in life and load carrying
ability between the cartridges commonly used and ones with a ball size
of 5/32" for front axles and 1/4" for rear of typical cup and cone
used in such bicycle hubs.

Cartridge bearings are preferably used with axial preload for the
purpose of simulating radial preload that cannot be readily achieved
otherwise. Three effects of cartridge bearings is that make them less
than what they at first seem to be:

1. They are not full complement bearings, being eccentrically loaded.
That is, they have fewer than a full load of bearing balls as cup
and cone beraings generally do.

2. Their "seals" are air dams to prevent centrifugal air pumping so
that their lubricant does not become dirty flypaper from the air.

3. They have no radial preload and for the same radial space have smaller
bearing balls.

The seals are not designed to exclude water as is often believed.

not designed to exclude water? perhaps you'd better let the entire
automotive industry know that jobst - they're clearly working under a
gross misunderstanding. oh, wait, you're the guy that says all bmw's
arrive stateside with brinelled bearings...

Quoted message said:

Jobst Brandt

Chalo said:

Quoted message said:

Colina sez-"Note also that in my experience, cartridge bearings tend to
outlast hub
cones by a large margin."
reason why? the bearing path is constrained and not allowed to go
elliptical as with ball/cone?

Cartridge bearings almost always have better finish, tolerances, and
materials than cup & cone. Most hub cups don't even have ground
surfaces, and they are relatively thin races poorly backed by the
aluminum hub shell, often not even conformally.

Most cartridge bearings have some noteworthy amount of race stiffness
intrinsic to their structures, and this stiffness is added to by the
hub shell rather than almost wholly being provided by it.

The lubrication in cartridge bearings tend to stay a lot cleaner, a lot
longer than that of cup & cone. (This is comparing like with like,
e.g. hubs with exposed cartridge shields vs. cup & cone hubs that have
rudimentary dust shields, or cartridge hubs with external shields like
the OP's Specialized hubs vs. contact + labyrinth sealed cup & cone
hubs like the better Shimano models.)

i'm waiting to see how my mavic cosmos wheels hold up to the rigors of
winter - with their sealed bearings. the drive side bearing on my
shimano 105 rear [contact seals + labyrinth] practically disintegrated
about 3 months into the last wet season because the sealing was simply
inadequate.

Quoted message said:

Chalo Colina