Replacing a lugged top tube?

supabonbon said:

I've got a 75 Paramount track bike with a big ding in the top of the
top tube where the handlebar smacked into it. It's not pretty, but
doesn't seem to affect performance.
It's a 531 tube with Nervex lugs. I'm considering having the top tube
replaced. How much can I expect to pay, and can anyone recommend
someone in the NY/NJ area?

You could have it filled and resprayed instead.

supabonbon said:

I've got a 75 Paramount track bike with a big ding in the top of the
top tube where the handlebar smacked into it. It's not pretty, but
doesn't seem to affect performance.
It's a 531 tube with Nervex lugs. I'm considering having the top tube
replaced. How much can I expect to pay, and can anyone recommend
someone in the NY/NJ area?

The Nervex lugs can make it tricky to pull the old tube out. If you don't
have the joint fully liquid and evenly heated you risk breaking the points
of when you pull the tube. If the dent hasn't affected alignment or ride
quality, you might consider simply filling it solder and repainting
instead. It a smaller, easier and less expensive job as well.

Otherwise, just wrap some tape over the dent. This serves a dual function
-- it covers the dent and protects the tube from further denting.

--

-John ([email hidden])

(supabonbon) said:

I've got a 75 Paramount track bike with a big ding in the top of the
top tube ... I'm considering having the top tube replaced. How much
can I expect to pay, and can anyone recommend someone in the NY/NJ
area?

How will you feel if you spend $125 to get the tube replaced and then
the handlebar swings around and dents the top tube again ?? Moreover,
reynolds 531 tubes are getting rare - they are out of production - and
spending $125 for a repair that is ALWAYS done with bondo during a
repaint is using a precious resource for a frivolous purpose.

I, have a raleigh competition with a top-tube that was crumpled in two
places during a crash. I have priced the cost of getting a new top
tube installed. It is a dangerous repair because it reheats and
weakens the lug area. The top tube is typically under compression and
its one of the least structural tubes on the bike, so a small dent
does not compromise strength.

To replace this tube it costs about $125 at a low-cost frame builder
(franklin frames of ohio), and $175 at a high-cost frame builder (just
about anybody in new york city or california probably qualifies), not
counting paint and rechroming of the lugs, which should shoot the
total price up to about $500 or $600 on your bike ...

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

John Thompson said:

Otherwise, just wrap some tape over the dent. This serves a dual function
-- it covers the dent and protects the tube from further denting.

Spense Wolfe in Cupertino used to wrap some tape (over foam) around the
top tube on new bikes, to prevent exactly this dent. I followed his
example for many years, but gave up on it some time ago. Maybe you should
just follow suit, as suggested above.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and
_`\(,_ | Excellence.
(_)/ (_) |

I bet Paris Sport in Ridgewood, NJ can help. That's where Cuevas is (used to
be) located, and that name is associated with fine frames.
Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY

"supabonbon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've got a 75 Paramount track bike with a big ding in the top of the
top tube where the handlebar smacked into it. It's not pretty, but
doesn't seem to affect performance.
It's a 531 tube with Nervex lugs. I'm considering having the top tube
replaced. How much can I expect to pay, and can anyone recommend
someone in the NY/NJ area?

/s

supabonbon said:

I've got a 75 Paramount track bike with a big ding in the top of the
top tube where the handlebar smacked into it. It's not pretty, but
doesn't seem to affect performance.
It's a 531 tube with Nervex lugs. I'm considering having the top tube
replaced. How much can I expect to pay, and can anyone recommend
someone in the NY/NJ area?

About $150 for a new top tube. Plus a full paint job. Plus
decals. (And it won't ever look like a 1975 bike again)

You can have the dent repaired for less

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

About $150 for a new top tube. Plus a full paint job. Plus
decals. (And it won't ever look like a 1975 bike again)

You can have the dent repaired for less

Dunno about that, Andrew. Waterford will brepai it with original style decals
as will many others-cyclart, Ed Litton etc. I saw an Ed Litton restored
Paramount track bike-yellow and the correct shade-that couldn't be told from
new.
Phil Brown

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

About $150 for a new top tube. Plus a full paint job. Plus
decals. (And it won't ever look like a 1975 bike again)
You can have the dent repaired for less

Phil Brown said:

Dunno about that, Andrew. Waterford will brepai it with original style decals
as will many others-cyclart, Ed Litton etc. I saw an Ed Litton restored
Paramount track bike-yellow and the correct shade-that couldn't be told from
new.

OK, I agree there are exceptions. But generally a respray
looks resprayed.

And repairing the dent is the better course for him if all
else is well.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Phil Brown said:

Quoted message said:

About $150 for a new top tube. Plus a full paint job. Plus
decals. (And it won't ever look like a 1975 bike again)

You can have the dent repaired for less

Dunno about that, Andrew. Waterford will brepai it with original

style decals

Quoted message said:

as will many others-cyclart, Ed Litton etc. I saw an Ed Litton

restored

Quoted message said:

Paramount track bike-yellow and the correct shade-that couldn't be

told from

Quoted message said:

new.

Agree, Ed Litton does excellent work. Ed either does or did all
"factory repairs" for Bianchi USA. The problem is Ed's paint job alone
is gonna cost alot more than $150, try more like $250 and up. After
all, Joe Bell gets over $400 for one of his 8+ hours paint jobs, and
that doesn't include repairing/replacing the top tube. For more on Ed
Litton, see here:

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/Ed_Litton.htm

Btw, it looks like Phil Brown's work is pretty nice too:
http://www.paulstubblebine.com/philbrown/index.htm

Why not send it to Wisonsin instead? Waterford built it...

supabonbon said:

I've got a 75 Paramount track bike with a big ding in the top of the
top tube where the handlebar smacked into it. It's not pretty, but
doesn't seem to affect performance.
It's a 531 tube with Nervex lugs. I'm considering having the top tube
replaced. How much can I expect to pay, and can anyone recommend
someone in the NY/NJ area?

/s

Quoted message said:

OK, I agree there are exceptions. But generally a respray
looks resprayed.

And repairing the dent is the better course for him if all
else is well.

True, a respray sometimes looks like a respray. But even filling the dent means
a respray so why not go whole hog?
Phil Brown

Donald Gillies said:

How will you feel if you spend $125 to get the tube replaced and then
the handlebar swings around and dents the top tube again ?? Moreover,
reynolds 531 tubes are getting rare - they are out of production - and
spending $125 for a repair that is ALWAYS done with bondo during a
repaint is using a precious resource for a frivolous purpose.

In my experience, bondo tends to be less than satisfactory as it can fall
out rather easily. Filling the dent with a low-temperature lead solder is
quick and easy, and won't fall out either.

--

-John ([email hidden])

richard said:

Why not send it to Wisonsin instead? Waterford built it...

supabonbon said:

I've got a 75 Paramount track bike with a big ding in the top of the
top tube where the handlebar smacked into it. It's not pretty, but
doesn't seem to affect performance.
It's a 531 tube with Nervex lugs. I'm considering having the top tube
replaced. How much can I expect to pay, and can anyone recommend
someone in the NY/NJ area?

/s

I had a handlebar ding in an old Trek frame I'm building up. A local
frame builder saw it, grabbed a split aluminum block that had a hole in
in the same diameter as the tube. Threw some oil on it, clamped it in a
vise and rotated the tube in the block to get the ding out. The ding is
almost gone now.

Also, being a Waterford Paramount owner, the Waterford shop didn't start
production until about 1980. Before that, it was all done in a corner
of the Chicago plant. However, I do know they restore the old stuff, so
they probably have the Jigs and such. Here's my Paramount when I
receieved it back from them. They did a nice job, it's a 1990, and I
had the rear brake cable guides removed from the top of the frame and
put at 7 o'clock like current road bikes have, also had the rear reset
to 130mm so I could build it up as 9spd.

http://www.wolfenet.org/gallery/Bikes?page=7

--
Mark Wolfe Lakeside, ca http://www.wolfenet.org
gpg fingerprint = 42B6 EFEB 5414 AA18 01B7 64AC EF46 F7E6 82F6 8C71
"Your fault: core dumped"
-- MegaHAL

Quoted message said:

Donald Gillies said:

How will you feel if you spend $125 to get the tube replaced and then
the handlebar swings around and dents the top tube again ?? Moreover,
reynolds 531 tubes are getting rare - they are out of production - and
spending $125 for a repair that is ALWAYS done with bondo during a
repaint is using a precious resource for a frivolous purpose.

John Thompson said:

In my experience, bondo tends to be less than satisfactory as it can fall
out rather easily. Filling the dent with a low-temperature lead solder is
quick and easy, and won't fall out either.

Dito. We use all-metal fillers, too. Bicycle frames are too
dynamic for polyester filler.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

supabonbon said:

I've got a 75 Paramount track bike with a big ding in the top of the
top tube where the handlebar smacked into it. It's not pretty, but
doesn't seem to affect performance.
It's a 531 tube with Nervex lugs. I'm considering having the top tube
replaced. How much can I expect to pay, and can anyone recommend
someone in the NY/NJ area?

Quoted message said:

richard said:

Why not send it to Wisonsin instead? Waterford built it...

Mark Wolfe wrote:
-snip-

Quoted message said:

Also, being a Waterford Paramount owner, the Waterford shop didn't start
production until about 1980. Before that, it was all done in a corner
of the Chicago plant. However, I do know they restore the old stuff, so
they probably have the Jigs and such.

-snip-

Isn't a 1975 bike a Kenosha-built Mainland (sp?)?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:40:04 -0700 Mark Wolfe <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Also, being a Waterford Paramount owner, the Waterford shop didn't start
production until about 1980. Before that, it was all done in a corner
of the Chicago plant.

I'm pretty sure that the very early Paramount production was all done
in the Chicago factory, but by the 70s Paramounts demand had
outstripped that production capacity. Many Paramounts of that era were
made in a machine shop in Kenosha, WI for many years.

I'm not sure of how the production numbers compared, but I have the
impression that the Kenosha shop made more Paramounts than the Chicago
shop. I no longer remember the name of the person at the Kenosha shop
who did this.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Kenosha Paramounts were chromed and
painted in Chicago, however.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney [email hidden]
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

Mark Wolfe said:

I had a handlebar ding in an old Trek frame I'm building up. A local
frame builder saw it, grabbed a split aluminum block that had a hole in
in the same diameter as the tube. Threw some oil on it, clamped it in a
vise and rotated the tube in the block to get the ding out. The ding is
almost gone now.

Yup, that can work pretty well for many dents. You can buy those split
blocks from Third Hand, if you're interested.

Quoted message said:

Also, being a Waterford Paramount owner, the Waterford shop didn't start
production until about 1980. Before that, it was all done in a corner
of the Chicago plant. However, I do know they restore the old stuff, so
they probably have the Jigs and such. Here's my Paramount when I
receieved it back from them. They did a nice job, it's a 1990, and I
had the rear brake cable guides removed from the top of the frame and
put at 7 o'clock like current road bikes have, also had the rear reset
to 130mm so I could build it up as 9spd.

http://www.wolfenet.org/gallery/Bikes?page=7

Nice bike. Looks like a Debian shirt, too... :-)

--

-John ([email hidden])

Really, where else on earth can you send a 40-year old frameset back
to the manufacturer and in a month or two get something in the mail
that looks just like it did 40 years ago ?? not many places,
waterford should be the FIRST choice when restoring a schwinn
frameset.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA