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Resolution for 2008 - Get a little Sprint!

Started by Colin Campbell · · Last activity · 95 posts · 1,832 views

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Road Cycling
Published
1 January 2008
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14 January 2008
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Colin Campbell
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  1. I'm tired of my buddies taking all of the city limit sign sprints, and
    I'm tired of having trouble getting back onto wheels just in front of
    me, so I plan to improve my sprinting this year.

    Does anyone have some tips for me?

    Should I just throw in maybe three fast intervals on an otherwise normal
    ride? Should I go out a day or two a week with sprinting specifically
    on my mind for that day? Should I return to riding at the Velodrome a
    couple of days a week, as I did a few years ago?

    How do _you_ train for sprinting?

  2. "Colin Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm tired of my buddies taking all of the city limit sign sprints, and I'm
    tired of having trouble getting back onto wheels just in front of me, so I
    plan to improve my sprinting this year.

    Does anyone have some tips for me?

    Should I just throw in maybe three fast intervals on an otherwise normal
    ride? Should I go out a day or two a week with sprinting specifically on
    my mind for that day? Should I return to riding at the Velodrome a couple
    of days a week, as I did a few years ago?

    How do _you_ train for sprinting?

    Generally the city limit sprints should either make you improve or
    demonstrate that you don't have the correct mixture of muscle types.
    Although you could insert interval training ONCE A WEEK other than sprinting
    there's not a lot you can do to improve that particular portion of your
    riding other than just plain racing.

  3. "Colin Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm tired of my buddies taking all of the city limit sign sprints, and I'm
    tired of having trouble getting back onto wheels just in front of me, so I
    plan to improve my sprinting this year.

    Does anyone have some tips for me?

    Should I just throw in maybe three fast intervals on an otherwise normal
    ride? Should I go out a day or two a week with sprinting specifically on
    my mind for that day? Should I return to riding at the Velodrome a couple
    of days a week, as I did a few years ago?

    How do _you_ train for sprinting?

    I asked a similar question a few years ago and John Verheul gave this
    reply...

    Subject: Re: form sprints

    From: John Verheul

    I don't pretend to speak for Friel, but here's what form sprints have

    traditionally been: Sprints which focus primarily on form (as opposed

    to sprints which focus primarily on strength, power, speed, or winning -

    all of these being valid forms of training sprints).

    To do form sprints, you start at a slow to moderate speed in a small

    gear. You then accelerate (either seated or standing, depending on the

    form you are trying to improve) for 5-10 seconds, concentrating on

    using proper form. The small gear is so that it doesn't become a

    strength/power drill, you are training your nerves to fire in a certain

    way here, not trying to make your legs tired. The other reason for the

    small gear is that it forces you to be truly balanced on top of your

    pedals, since there's not much "back pressure". When using a high gear,

    you can thrash your body all over your bike, but if you try the same

    thing in a low gear you'll crash - since you're moving around so much

    faster.

    You only go 5-10 seconds because it's not a legspeed drill, you might

    max at only 120 rpm or so in a form sprint, whereas in a legspeed drill

    you hold the highest cadence you can for at least 30 revolutions (that

    will be over 10 seconds for most people). Legspeed drills really just

    isolate your legs, form sprints focus on the entire body form as you

    sprint. Not a bad idea to do form sprints on the same day as legspeed

    drills.

    The goal of form sprints is to teach your body to sprint with proper

    form. Hips balanced over the pedals, shoulders low, hands on drops,

    head up. I see a lot of newer racers lean too far forward, or too

    upright (with hands on hoods), or not moving the bike correctly when

    they sprint - thus they are not as fast as a weaker person with correct

    form.

    Quoted message said:

    and

    Quoted message said:

    what might 2-2.5 hours of speed work look like over the course of a

    week in the

    Quoted message said:

    prep and base 1 periods?

    Form sprints are only a small part of "speed work". Some factors

    involved in speed (i.e. - making the bike go fast) are form, strength,

    legspeed, and power. Form sprints train one of these. It's important

    that form becomes second nature, because you can't be thinking about it

    when you're in a real sprint - there's too much other stuff (timing,

    line, etc) to think about then.

    Legspeed drills and form sprints can typically be done with just about

    any other type of ride, since they don't really tax your body like

    strength or power work does. How you train strength and power is a bit

    more important in terms of schedule. I'm sure Friel's book deals with

    those, if not my team manager is a Friel associate and I'll be happy to

    put you in touch.

    John Verheul

    --
    JF

    "Bad will be the day for every man when he becomes absolutely contented with
    the life he is living, with the thoughts he is thinking, with the deeds he
    is doing, when there is not forever beating at the doors of his soul some
    great desire to do something larger, which he knows that he was meant and
    made to do because he is still, in spite of all, the child of God. "
    - Phillip Brooks

  4. Colin Campbell said:

    I'm tired of my buddies taking all of the city limit sign sprints, and
    I'm tired of having trouble getting back onto wheels just in front of
    me, so I plan to improve my sprinting this year.

    Does anyone have some tips for me?

    Should I just throw in maybe three fast intervals on an otherwise normal
    ride?  Should I go out a day or two a week with sprinting specifically
    on my mind for that day?  Should I return to riding at the Velodrome a
    couple of days a week, as I did a few years ago?

    How do _you_ train for sprinting?

    All the fastest sprinters I know are mesomorphs. The only people who
    can beat them who are not just as muscular are in general MUCH faster
    riders.

    So either just get much faster by gettings lots more fitness which
    will bring a sprint (relative to those who beat you now) with it, or
    do things to build muscle strength so you can mash those pedals fast.

    A sprint is all about high force on the pedals at a high cadence. It
    is not a sustainable thing, so don't worry about fitness, just
    strength. Fitness matters because not being tired is important, but
    not being tired won't matter if you don't have the strength to spin
    the big gears. There are guys I ride with who can beat me by several
    minutes in short time trials, and hours for longer rides, but have
    zero chance against me in a short sprint when I am fresh. It's all
    about force generation.

    I of course don't know what I am talking about, but I would suggest
    doing hill sprints. Find a hill longer than you can sprint up. Pick a
    biggish gear and stomp as hard and fast as you can until exhaustion.
    Repeat numerous times. Don't try to pace yourself to reach some goal
    post, or anything like that. Just go all out 100% from go. Think about
    turning the pedals faster, don't think about how hard to push. If you
    manage 50 meters up the hill, or 400m, it makes no difference. You are
    just trying to have maximum intensity efforts for as long as they
    last. Try to bend your bars and snap your pedal spindles. The trick is
    getting maximum intensity and force. If you have to stop and put your
    foot down in the middle of the hill this is good. Do that a lot and
    you will get more than a little sprint.

    Joseph

  5. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    I of course don't know what I am talking about, but I would suggest
    doing hill sprints. Find a hill longer than you can sprint up. Pick a
    biggish gear and stomp as hard and fast as you can until exhaustion.
    Repeat numerous times. Don't try to pace yourself to reach some goal
    post, or anything like that. Just go all out 100% from go. Think about
    turning the pedals faster, don't think about how hard to push. If you
    manage 50 meters up the hill, or 400m, it makes no difference. You are
    just trying to have maximum intensity efforts for as long as they
    last. Try to bend your bars and snap your pedal spindles. The trick is
    getting maximum intensity and force. If you have to stop and put your
    foot down in the middle of the hill this is good. Do that a lot and
    you will get more than a little sprint.

    Joe is correct but the problem is that you seldom have the sort of staying
    power doing hill sprints that you'd have in a crit where you can challenge
    yourself to stay with the lead guys and try so much harder because of that
    sort of motivation.

    I found that the only thing that improved my sprint was racing. I would work
    hard trying to stay with the pack for the 30 minutes and then sprint at the
    end of that. Man, it took a couple of years but it started scaring me just
    how fast I could go. I was sprinting up to 36 mph all alone on open roads
    and riding at 28 mph for miles.

    If you really want to get the best out of yourself, try finding training
    races that you can ALMOST stay in the group. Then eventually you will stay.
    Then you'll be riding in the middle. Then almost unexpectedly you'll be
    riding on the front. Of course this all assumes motivation.

  6. Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I of course don't know what I am talking about, but I would suggest
    doing hill sprints. Find a hill longer than you can sprint up. Pick a
    biggish gear and stomp as hard and fast as you can until exhaustion.
    Repeat numerous times. Don't try to pace yourself to reach some goal
    post, or anything like that. Just go all out 100% from go. Think about
    turning the pedals faster, don't think about how hard to push. If you
    manage 50 meters up the hill, or 400m, it makes no difference. You are
    just trying to have maximum intensity efforts for as long as they
    last. Try to bend your bars and snap your pedal spindles. The trick is
    getting maximum intensity and force. If you have to stop and put your
    foot down in the middle of the hill this is good. Do that a lot and
    you will get more than a little  sprint.

    Joe is correct but the problem is that you seldom have the sort of staying
    power doing hill sprints that you'd have in a crit where you can challenge
    yourself to stay with the lead guys and try so much harder because of that
    sort of motivation.

    I found that the only thing that improved my sprint was racing. I would work
    hard trying to stay with the pack for the 30 minutes and then sprint at the
    end of that. Man, it took a couple of years but it started scaring me just
    how fast I could go. I was sprinting up to 36 mph all alone on open roads
    and riding at 28 mph for miles.

    If you really want to get the best out of yourself, try finding training
    races that you can ALMOST stay in the group. Then eventually you will stay..
    Then you'll be riding in the middle. Then almost unexpectedly you'll be
    riding on the front. Of course this all assumes motivation.

    I agree. But in the meantime between races, do hill sprints!

    Joseph

  7. Colin Campbell said:

    I'm tired of my buddies taking all of the city limit sign sprints, and
    I'm tired of having trouble getting back onto wheels just in front of
    me, so I plan to improve my sprinting this year.

    Does anyone have some tips for me?

    Should I just throw in maybe three fast intervals on an otherwise normal
    ride?  Should I go out a day or two a week with sprinting specifically
    on my mind for that day?  Should I return to riding at the Velodrome a
    couple of days a week, as I did a few years ago?

    How do _you_ train for sprinting?

    You pick better parents.

  8. SLAVE of THE STATE said:
    Colin Campbell said:

    I'm tired of my buddies taking all of the city limit sign sprints, and
    I'm tired of having trouble getting back onto wheels just in front of
    me, so I plan to improve my sprinting this year.

    Does anyone have some tips for me?

    Should I just throw in maybe three fast intervals on an otherwise normal
    ride? Should I go out a day or two a week with sprinting specifically
    on my mind for that day? Should I return to riding at the Velodrome a
    couple of days a week, as I did a few years ago?

    How do _you_ train for sprinting?

    You pick better parents.

    That's what I always thought.
    Look, ya gotta do it in one of the areas you legitimately can.

    Happy New Year.

    Steve

    --
    Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
    http://www.dentaltwins.com
    Brooklyn, NY
    718-258-5001

  9. "Colin Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm tired of my buddies taking all of the city limit sign sprints, and I'm
    tired of having trouble getting back onto wheels just in front of me, so I
    plan to improve my sprinting this year.

    Does anyone have some tips for me?

    Should I just throw in maybe three fast intervals on an otherwise normal
    ride? Should I go out a day or two a week with sprinting specifically on
    my mind for that day? Should I return to riding at the Velodrome a couple
    of days a week, as I did a few years ago?

    How do _you_ train for sprinting?

    Most sprints are won... and lost... before they're even started. It's not
    just body strength, it's also a mindset. It's playing things out in your
    mind, knowing ahead of time that YOU are better than the other guy and YOU
    are going to win.

    Sprints are also lost because of a lack of patience. People give up way too
    soon. Spints go a lot further (or CAN go a lot further) than losers think.
    Try leading the sprint out a bit early, looking like a suicide attempt, only
    your plan is to lock onto the fastest wheel that passes you.

    You've also got to figure out whether you still have time to work on
    technique (young enough to develop a high-power high-rev spin, which is
    probably the most difficult for your adversaries to overcome) or massive
    amounts of brute force in a relatively-high gear. The problem with the high
    gear mode is that you're going to accelerate more slowly. But either way,
    most sprints are going to run 10 seconds, 15, 20, maybe even longer. There
    are a lot of opportunities that occur during that much time. Watch for them.
    Look for opportunities.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

  10. SLAVE of THE STATE said:
    Colin Campbell said:

    I'm tired of my buddies taking all of the city limit sign sprints, and
    I'm tired of having trouble getting back onto wheels just in front of
    me, so I plan to improve my sprinting this year.

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have some tips for me?

    Quoted message said:

    Should I just throw in maybe three fast intervals on an otherwise normal
    ride?  Should I go out a day or two a week with sprinting specifically
    on my mind for that day?  Should I return to riding at the Velodrome a
    couple of days a week, as I did a few years ago?

    Quoted message said:

    How do _you_ train for sprinting?

    You pick better parents.

    You're probably thinking of muscle type, but I think an overlooked
    component of sprinting is the adrenal response to the circumstance.
    I've wondered whether this is a trainable response, by learning to
    control your mental state, or if it's strictly hereditary and can't be
    modified.

    Bret

  11. Colin Campbell said:

    I'm tired of my buddies taking all of the city limit sign sprints, and
    I'm tired of having trouble getting back onto wheels just in front of
    me, so I plan to improve my sprinting this year.

    Does anyone have some tips for me?

    Should I just throw in maybe three fast intervals on an otherwise normal
    ride?  Should I go out a day or two a week with sprinting specifically
    on my mind for that day?  Should I return to riding at the Velodrome a
    couple of days a week, as I did a few years ago?

    How do _you_ train for sprinting?

    A large part of sprinting is having the ability to ride into position
    to contend for the sprint in the first place and then recover quickly
    (in seconds) for the sprint itself. This means short very intense
    intervals, spaced quickly to train recovery. I once had a training
    partner who used to swear by ten seconds on, ten seconds off, for up
    to ten repetitions. It was one of the most painful workouts I've ever
    tried. Depending on how your sign sprints develop, this may or may not
    apply.

    Bret

  12. Bret said:

    You're probably thinking of muscle type, but I think an overlooked
    component of sprinting is the adrenal response to the circumstance. I've
    wondered whether this is a trainable response, by learning to control your
    mental state, or if it's strictly hereditary and can't be modified.

    Dumbass,
    Rbr is way ahead of you. Try googling rbr adrenaline theory
    in google groups.

  13. Donald Munro said:
    Bret said:

    You're probably thinking of muscle type, but I think an overlooked
    component of sprinting is the adrenal response to the circumstance. I've
    wondered whether this is a trainable response, by learning to control your
    mental state, or if it's strictly hereditary and can't be modified.

    Dumbass,
    Rbr is way ahead of you. Try googling rbr adrenaline theory
    in google groups.

    Thanks, but I was thinking of crash-free adrenaline.

    Bret

  14. It's raining in Southern California, and my club reserved the ADT Event
    Center (North America's only indoor Velodrome) for a few hours on Sunday
    afternoon.

    I haven't been to the track for a couple of years, but I had only done a
    couple of short "dodge the raindrops" rides the two days previously, so
    I figured, why not give it another try?

    With fairly fresh legs, I had a ball! I did a couple of sprint efforts
    (although I wasn't comfortable out of the saddle on the track bike yet),
    and rode in the "slow" pace line that was set up for the beginners. The
    pace was perfect, about 36 - 38 kph, such that I could sprint at the end
    of the pace line, too.

    Maybe I should add track training back into my program. (My program now
    is: Get up, go for a ride. Some days, ride up a hill or two.)

  15. Quoted message said:

    Maybe I should add track training back into my program. (My program now
    is: Get up, go for a ride. Some days, ride up a hill or two.)

    Which is a fine plan for simply enjoying yourself on a bike. It all depends
    upon what you want to do. I do not think it's possible to excel (or get
    substantially better at something in a short period of time) without it
    hurting.

    The people I have a difficult time relating to are those who, for example,
    want to climb our local hill (Kings Mountain) faster, but aren't willing to
    suffer doing so. "How do I climb faster?" Well, for one, you're going to
    have to push yourself beyond a pace where you can comfortable yak away while
    climbing.

    Don't misunderstand me; there's nothing wrong with riding at a casual,
    recreational pace. Lots of people do it, and it represents most of my
    customer base. But the best someone can hope for, with that sort of riding,
    is to simply ride longer and longer distances without much fatigue. It will
    *not* enable them to climb or sprint better than those who really work at
    it.

    --Mike--
    Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReaction.com

    "Colin Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    It's raining in Southern California, and my club reserved the ADT Event
    Center (North America's only indoor Velodrome) for a few hours on Sunday
    afternoon.

    I haven't been to the track for a couple of years, but I had only done a
    couple of short "dodge the raindrops" rides the two days previously, so I
    figured, why not give it another try?

    With fairly fresh legs, I had a ball! I did a couple of sprint efforts
    (although I wasn't comfortable out of the saddle on the track bike yet),
    and rode in the "slow" pace line that was set up for the beginners. The
    pace was perfect, about 36 - 38 kph, such that I could sprint at the end
    of the pace line, too.

    Maybe I should add track training back into my program. (My program now
    is: Get up, go for a ride. Some days, ride up a hill or two.)

  16. "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Don't misunderstand me; there's nothing wrong with riding at a casual,
    recreational pace. Lots of people do it, and it represents most of my
    customer base. But the best someone can hope for, with that sort of
    riding, is to simply ride longer and longer distances without much
    fatigue. It will *not* enable them to climb or sprint better than those
    who really work at it.

    On the other hand, sprint training WILL improve all of your other training
    since it will allow you to ride further because your yakking pace will be a
    lot lower on your power curve and hence even easier than when you started
    your sprint training.

  17. Colin Campbell said:

    It's raining in Southern California, and my club reserved the ADT Event
    Center (North America's only indoor Velodrome) for a few hours on Sunday
    afternoon.

    Dumbass,

    There are 2 other indoor veldromes in North America. Pull your head
    out of your Colin.

  18. "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Don't misunderstand me; there's nothing wrong with riding at a casual,
    recreational pace. Lots of people do it, and it represents most of my
    customer base. But the best someone can hope for, with that sort of
    riding, is to simply ride longer and longer distances without much
    fatigue. It will *not* enable them to climb or sprint better than those
    who really work at it.

    On the other hand, sprint training WILL improve all of your other training
    since it will allow you to ride further because your yakking pace will be
    a lot lower on your power curve and hence even easier than when you
    started your sprint training.

    Wouldn't intervals be even better? Speaking only for myself, my biggest
    improvements in recent history came when I abandoned just trying to get to
    the top of Kings Mtn as quickly as possible and switched to intervals
    instead. It would add maybe a minute to my overall time, but redlining my
    heart rate for two minutes (178 at the time), then letting it drift back to
    a baseline pulse (150), then repeating the process... geez it hurt, bad, but
    it reversed a gradual decline in fitness that had gone on over the previous
    15 years.

    I really need to get back to that, or a modified, tolerable version. Don't
    know if I could take that much pain now, but maybe that's exactly the reason
    I gotta try!

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

  19. Mike Jacoubowsky said:
    Quoted message said:

    On the other hand, sprint training WILL improve all of your other training
    since it will allow you to ride further because your yakking pace will be
    a lot lower on your power curve and hence even easier than when you
    started your sprint training.

    Wouldn't intervals be even better?

    Don't question Koach K, just do it. A few sprint training sessions and
    you WILL be climbing like Pantani as long as you remember to keep
    yakking.

    Bret

  20. Quoted message said:

    Don't question Koach K, just do it. A few sprint training sessions and
    you WILL be climbing like Pantani as long as you remember to keep
    yakking.

    The irony is that the guys I ride with DO yak all the way up the hill, while
    I'm struggling with my rasping lungs just to get enough air for the next
    pedal stroke. It can be so frustrating actually hearing them before (or
    after) seeing them. Also hard for me to sneak up on anybody. I don't think
    they climb quite like Pantani, although from my perspective, it might seem
    like it.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    "Bret" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Mike Jacoubowsky said:
    Quoted message said:

    On the other hand, sprint training WILL improve all of your other
    training
    since it will allow you to ride further because your yakking pace will
    be
    a lot lower on your power curve and hence even easier than when you
    started your sprint training.

    Wouldn't intervals be even better?

    Don't question Koach K, just do it. A few sprint training sessions and
    you WILL be climbing like Pantani as long as you remember to keep
    yakking.

    Bret

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