Rider gradings

"Andrew Lighten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've seen mention of people being "D grade", "C grade", etc. What kind of performance criteria are
used to determine what grade someone is in, and

how

Quoted message said:

could I get a rough idea of what grade I might be in should I choose to

join

Quoted message said:

a club and start competing?

It's all voodoo. If an unknown shows up to a club race, the handicapper looks them over, and assigns
a grade. If you haven't raced before, you generally get put into D grade, which is the second
lowest. E Grade is usually reserved for the really old guys.

So then when you blow D grade apart on your first race, and finish 400m ahead of the pack, a bunch
of people will complain that you're a burglar, and you'll get stuck into C grade next week. Some
people get a bit of a reputation for sneaking around the different clubs trying to con the
handicapper into putting them into a lower grade than they really should.

If you're properly graded, and a regular, you'll find your performance will generally improve with
time, so after a while you'll stop getting dropped, then you'll start to get involved in the sprint,
and get noticed by the handicapper. If you're on the podium too many times in a row, they'll suggest
that it would be good for you to race with the next grade.

Of course if you show up to your first race with enormous bulging shaved thighs, and a well worn
expensive bike, be prepared to race your first race with the C or even B graders.

Regards,

Suzy

"Andrew Lighten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

I've got a bit of a newbie question here: how are riders graded for competition?

Varies hugely, club to club, event to event, country to country.

When you get a grading in a club, DON'T think it has any relevance in opens (Cycling Federation
events - those guys and gels are gooood!)

Some of the greatest bulls**t artists in all humanity can be heard trying to establish their
credentials with the handicapper as an "X" grader - "well I'm still recovering from the triple by
pass, its my granny's old bike, I'm a certified slow old fat [censored], hardly ever raced before,
might not be able to go the distance here..."

The burglars get punted to a higher grade pretty smartly.

You can tell when the handicapper has got it pretty right when there is a big bunch of you still
together after the final corner and its anybody's race - great fun and builds riding skills like
nothing else

And ultimately, you are only competing against yourself - its what you can do, when called on to do
it, that counts

best, Andrew

"Andrew Lighten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3f59f21a$0$95044$c30e37c6@lon-

Quoted message said:

I've seen mention of people being "D grade", "C grade", etc. What kind of performance criteria are
used to determine what grade someone is in, and

how

Quoted message said:

could I get a rough idea of what grade I might be in should I choose to

join

Quoted message said:

a club and start competing?

If you've realistically not done any racing before, put yourself in the lowest grade. Even being
super fit doesn't mean you will win, there's tactics and rules to be learnt. If you wax the field
then, sure, put yourself up a grade.

It's quite hard to tell and I had the same question when I started. I worked my way up in D grade
and in one race lapped the field. Entered into C grade after that and got a place or two, then
crashed and my next C grade race (with many more riders) I was left for dead - so, even getting the
grade right doesn't mean you will be near the front, or even be able to hang on!

It's nice to win, but it's better to fight for the win!

hippy

Suzy Jackson said:

"Andrew Lighten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've seen mention of people being "D grade", "C grade", etc. What kind of performance criteria
are used to determine what grade someone is in, and

how

Quoted message said:

could I get a rough idea of what grade I might be in should I choose to

join

Quoted message said:

a club and start competing?

It's all voodoo. If an unknown shows up to a club race, the handicapper looks them over, and
assigns a grade. If you haven't raced before, you generally get put into D grade, which is the
second lowest. E Grade is usually reserved for the really old guys.

So then when you blow D grade apart on your first race, and finish 400m ahead of the pack, a bunch
of people will complain that you're a burglar, and you'll get stuck into C grade next week. Some
people get a bit of a reputation for sneaking around the different clubs trying to con the
handicapper into putting them into a lower grade than they really should.

If you're properly graded, and a regular, you'll find your performance will generally improve with
time, so after a while you'll stop getting dropped, then you'll start to get involved in the
sprint, and get noticed by the handicapper. If you're on the podium too many times in a row,
they'll suggest that it would be good for you to race with the next grade.

Of course if you show up to your first race with enormous bulging shaved thighs, and a well worn
expensive bike, be prepared to race your first race with the C or even B graders.

Regards,

Suzy

Hmm, I have always feared racing, since I only cycle occaisionally for fun. I guess if there are
grades its a different matter though.

Andrew...

I was close!!! :-)

Give me six months, and I may be ready to join you ... although, given the last 4, you'd best make
that 12 months!!! :-)

"hippy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Andrew Lighten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3f59f21a$0$95044$c30e37c6@lon-

Quoted message said:

I've seen mention of people being "D grade", "C grade", etc. What kind

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

performance criteria are used to determine what grade someone is in, and

how

Quoted message said:

could I get a rough idea of what grade I might be in should I choose to

join

Quoted message said:

a club and start competing?

If you've realistically not done any racing before, put yourself in the lowest grade. Even being
super fit doesn't mean you will win, there's tactics and rules to be learnt. If you wax the field
then, sure, put yourself up a grade.

It's quite hard to tell and I had the same question when I started. I worked my way up in D grade
and in one race lapped the field. Entered into C grade after that and got a place or two, then
crashed and my next C grade race (with many more riders) I was left for dead - so, even getting
the grade right doesn't mean you will be near the front, or even be able to hang on!

It's nice to win, but it's better to fight for the win!

hippy

"Suzy Jackson" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

So then when you blow D grade apart on your first race, and finish 400m ahead of the pack, a bunch
of people will complain that you're a burglar, and you'll get stuck into C grade next week. Some
people get a bit of a reputation for sneaking around the different clubs trying to con the
handicapper into putting them into a lower grade than they really should.

I will never understand the theory behind this ? As far as I am concerned, the guy coming _last_ in
C grade is _better_ then the guy coming first in D Grade therefore you should be trying to progress
THROUGH the grades as soon as you can.

Maybe they should engrave the "trophy" that way ?

"First in D Grade but not as good as the last guy in C Grade" 🙂

--
Trevor S

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." -Albert Einstein

"Trevor S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some people get a bit of a reputation for sneaking around the different clubs trying to con the
handicapper into putting them into a lower grade than they really should.

I will never understand the theory behind this ? As far as I am concerned, the guy coming _last_
in C grade is _better_ then the guy coming first in

D

Quoted message said:

Grade therefore you should be trying to progress THROUGH the grades as

soon

Quoted message said:

as you can.

There's usually money involved. I got $10 for finishing 2nd in my D grade race on the weekend. Also,
only the first three ever get a mention in the results. Everyone else might as well not exist.
Having said that though, if it's not hard work, then it's not particularly enjoyable and you're not
extending yourself.

I have the most fun when I know I'm within striking distance of a placing, when I know that if I'm
having a good day, and if I ride the race using my brains rather than my legs, and if I just get a
little lucky at the end, that I'll get a place. Last weekend was particularly sweet. One of my team
mates went up the road with a kilometre to go, and I reckoned that was the winning move, so I sat up
and didn't chase him, but instead sat on the wheels of those who did. As it happened we passed him
with 100m to go, and I'd been sitting in for the start of the sprint, so went hard at (almost) the
right time. The first four placegetters were all within about 2 metres of each other.

I went up to C grade a couple of months ago voluntarily, as I figured the extra speed would do me
some good, but after a few weeks of going off the back half way through the race I dropped back to D
grade, as it's not fun to get your [censored] whipped every week.

However it looks like my stint in C grade has been good for me, as now I've got a placing in D
grade. With luck (and a hell of a lot of training) I hope that I'll get a bunch more placings,
and will then go to C grade happily, knowing that I've got a good chance of hanging on for most
of the race.

Regards,

Suzy

How long are the races typically?

Suzy Jackson said:

"Trevor S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some people get a bit of a reputation for sneaking around the different clubs trying to con the
handicapper into putting them into a lower grade than they really should.

I will never understand the theory behind this ? As far as I am concerned, the guy coming _last_
in C grade is _better_ then the guy coming first in

D

Quoted message said:

Grade therefore you should be trying to progress THROUGH the grades as

soon

Quoted message said:

as you can.

There's usually money involved. I got $10 for finishing 2nd in my D grade race on the weekend.
Also, only the first three ever get a mention in the results. Everyone else might as well not
exist. Having said that though, if it's not hard work, then it's not particularly enjoyable and
you're not extending yourself.

I have the most fun when I know I'm within striking distance of a placing, when I know that if I'm
having a good day, and if I ride the race using my brains rather than my legs, and if I just get a
little lucky at the end, that I'll get a place. Last weekend was particularly sweet. One of my team
mates went up the road with a kilometre to go, and I reckoned that was the winning move, so I sat
up and didn't chase him, but instead sat on the wheels of those who did. As it happened we passed
him with 100m to go, and I'd been sitting in for the start of the sprint, so went hard at (almost)
the right time. The first four placegetters were all within about 2 metres of each other.

I went up to C grade a couple of months ago voluntarily, as I figured the extra speed would do me
some good, but after a few weeks of going off the back half way through the race I dropped back to
D grade, as it's not fun to get your [censored] whipped every week.

However it looks like my stint in C grade has been good for me, as now I've got a placing in D
grade. With luck (and a hell of a lot of training) I hope that I'll get a bunch more placings,
and will then go to C grade happily, knowing that I've got a good chance of hanging on for most
of the race.

Regards,

Suzy

"Trevor S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I will never understand the theory behind this ? As far as I am concerned, the guy coming _last_
in C grade is _better_ then the guy coming first in

D

Quoted message said:

Grade therefore you should be trying to progress THROUGH the grades as

soon

Quoted message said:

as you can.

Tell that to the guy that came last in C grade. Look at the face of the person that came first in D
grade and that should explain why some people want to stay in lower grades. Moving up should be a
goal but it can't be nice getting whipped week in week out.

As for moving through grades as fast as possible - I don't think that it's such a good idea. I learn
something every time I go out and I'm still racing D after a brief stint in C grade and lots of time
not racing. There's lots to be learnt racing - speeding through grades might mean you've got fitness
but you'll get to a point where it doesn't help because you need more than fitness to win. If you
don't know how to hold a wheel, etc. when you get to the higher grades you wont get far.

Also, it's better to make mistakes in the lower grades, I think, rather than in the grades where
people are taking it quite a bit more seriously.

hippy

"Suzy Jackson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QnF6b.87701$bo1.21295@news-

Quoted message said:

There's usually money involved. I got $10 for finishing 2nd in my D grade

$10 can't seriously be the reason people would choose to stay in a lower grade? Surely it's more
than money people want from cycle racing?

Quoted message said:

race on the weekend. Also, only the first three ever get a mention in the results. Everyone else
might as well not exist. Having said that though,

Personally, having my name written in a results list doesn't mean much. I know what place I got and
that's the important part. e.g. my "concussed but not last place" result in my first ever race means
something to me but will never get listed anywhere.

Quoted message said:

I have the most fun when I know I'm within striking distance of a placing, when I know that if I'm
having a good day, and if I ride the race using my brains rather than my legs, and if I just get a
little lucky at the end,

I have to say I don't mind getting a good result (whatever that may be) using pure, brute-force,
muscle-tearing, must.... keep.... pedalling.... physical effort. Different races are good or bad for
different reasons though I think. If I race well, tactically, sweet! If I out-sprint someone, sweet!
If I bridge a gap and none follow, then get dropped and I'm left in no man's land for the rest of
the race... well ok, that's not so sweet :-P

Quoted message said:

that I'll get a place. Last weekend was particularly sweet. One of my

team

Quoted message said:

mates went up the road with a kilometre to go, and I reckoned that was the

You have team mates? In D grade? Damn.. I've gotta start hiring! :-)

Quoted message said:

However it looks like my stint in C grade has been good for me, as now

I've

Quoted message said:

got a placing in D grade. With luck (and a hell of a lot of training) I hope that I'll get a bunch
more placings, and will then go to C grade happily, knowing that I've got a good chance of hanging
on for most of the race.

Mmm, I wish there were more races on when I'm feeling good. Seems I go well in one race and then
there is nothing else on for a month. If I get a place in the next D grade race I think I will ask
to be put back in C grade and see how that goes. Yeah, just checked the calendar, next "race" is a
hill climb ITT up the 1 in 20 (it's listed on www.cycle2max.com) so I've got last year's time to
beat. Not much in the way of tactics, just pain. At least this year I might remember to warm up!

hippy

"Arpit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How long are the races typically?

Criteriums are:

C 45mins + 3 D 30mins + 3 Jun 20mins + 3 B 60mins + 3 A 60mins + 3

from: blackburncycling.org.auroaddetail.htmlOpen ↗

Road races are 50k up to 250k or more depending on grade.

1:20 hillclimb time trial is ~7k in 20min if you are me, or 15min if you are fast :-)

Steele's Creek ITT is 36k in 59:29 if you are me and 51:55 if you are Richard England.

hippy

"Arpit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How long are the races typically?

Short and fast, so you're on the verge of exploding the whole way. RBCC usually does the following:

E Grade: 6 laps (12km) @ 26-30km/h D Grade: 10 laps (20km) @ 32-34km/h C Grade: 14 laps (28km) @
34-36km/h B Grade: 16 laps (32km) @ 36-38km/h A Grade: 18 laps (36km) @ 38-40km/h

Crits favour sprinters.

Regards,

Suzy

"hippy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have to say I don't mind getting a good result (whatever that may be) using pure, brute-force,
muscle-tearing, must.... keep.... pedalling....

physical

Quoted message said:

effort. Different races are good or bad for different reasons though I think. If I race well,
tactically, sweet! If I out-sprint someone, sweet! If I bridge a gap and none follow, then get
dropped and I'm left in no

man's

Quoted message said:

land for the rest of the race... well ok, that's not so sweet :-P

One of the most enjoyable races I've done was a few weeks ago. We had a club champs 7.5km ITT on the
next weekend, so I figured It'd be neat to see how fast I could go for four laps (8km). I gave it
everything I had straight from the start line, and after a lap or so a couple of people bridged to
ride with me. That break lasted fully five laps, and was amazing fun. I usually have a go at some
point through the race, simply because I've never thought of myself as a very good sprinter. Of
course, it never works, but it's fun all the same, and I'm sure it takes some of the speed out of
the sprinters legs.

Saturday was the first time I didn't try to go off the front (when I was feeling good). Not that I
didn't do any work - I did my turns up front to keep the pace high. This sprinting lark is a lot of
fun, I must say.

Quoted message said:

You have team mates? In D grade? Damn.. I've gotta start hiring! :-)

Hehehe. Not so much a team as a bunch of likeable reprobates who turn up week after week, and
occasionally look out for one another, except of course when they're trying to tear your legs off.
Gotta do everything possible to keep those nasty Waratah guys out of the placings.

Regards,

Suzy

"Suzy Jackson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

fun. I usually have a go at some point through the race, simply

because

Quoted message said:

I've never thought of myself as a very good sprinter. Of course, it

never

Quoted message said:

works, but it's fun all the same, and I'm sure it takes some of the

speed

Quoted message said:

out of the sprinters legs.

Don't say "never". One of these days something will happen - you get a burst of power, weaker field,
planets aligned, etc and your break away will be ignored. Then you will time trial home for a win.
It happened to me once and I still don't know how/why it happened. I will usually have multiple
attempts at messing with the field, even though I'm primarily a sprinter. I often spend too much
time out the front, whether it be trying to prompt a break or chasing down someone else's break. In
some perverse way, I like the thought of putting the other riders under stress. I don't want to roll
around a track for half an hour and have the race decided in a sprint on the final lap (although
this is the norm). I want to split the field apart early, catch out people who are not warmed up
(usually me!), have a bit of fun with people, rather than just do a bunch ride until the 3 lap sign
comes out... Seriously, mess with the field, not only is it fun, but one day you will be ignored and
solo away for a win :-)

Quoted message said:

Saturday was the first time I didn't try to go off the front (when I

was

Quoted message said:

feeling good). Not that I didn't do any work - I did my turns up

front to

Quoted message said:

keep the pace high. This sprinting lark is a lot of fun, I must say.

If you want to have a shot at the sprint here's what I've been told and I've tried a couple of
times to varying success. Watch the front of the field and note any strong riders in top spots -
not necessarily the front. Also, anyone else who looks like a sprinter or looks like they are doing
it easy. Mark them! When 3 lap sign comes out or final lap or whatever make sure you are on their
wheel and make sure you are in 2nd, 3rd or 4th position. So, when the sprint starts and the strong
person you are hanging off the back of go's.. you follow, hopefully having saved a little bit more
energy than them, giving you the speed you need to come around them on the line. I've tried this
and it does work, but you have to pick a good wheel. This is the hardest part for me, that as well
as not reacting quick enough to the bunch attacking on the last lap/s. Both causing me to be
swamped on the line.

Quoted message said:

Hehehe. Not so much a team as a bunch of likeable reprobates who turn

up

Quoted message said:

week after week, and occasionally look out for one another, except of

course

Quoted message said:

when they're trying to tear your legs off. Gotta do everything

possible to

Quoted message said:

keep those nasty Waratah guys out of the placings.

Ahh, most of the races I do have a few Blackburn people in them and I'll help them if I can unless
it's an all Blackburn race in which case I'm going for the win! :-) I know a couple of other races
better than most so I pay special attention to them in a race and will help if I can and receive
offers of help from them depending on the nature of the race and how they are feeling.

hippy

This is a silly question, but I ask it because I have never been in a race let alone gone for a club ride. So I don't have any yardstick to measure myself against.

I commute everyday to work with a backpack which weighs 5-10 kg. The trip is over 17 km on each leg. Every afternoon I have to paddle against the head wind. I use part road and part cycle path, and have to cross traffic lights and streets. Also I get to slow down every time I have to pass inconsiderate pedestrians who take the entire bike path with their dogs. Considering all these, my monthly average speed (over about 500-600 km) is usually around 26.5 kmh. I take this as my training sessions! Now my question in regards to the race categories is: Can you tell me how would I perform if I was in a D grade race? I appreciate all that was said before about other real-time factors involved in a race. I just need a yardstick!

Thanks.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Suzy Jackson
"Arpit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How long are the races typically?

Short and fast, so you're on the verge of exploding the whole way. RBCC usually does the following:

E Grade: 6 laps (12km) @ 26-30km/h D Grade: 10 laps (20km) @ 32-34km/h C Grade: 14 laps (28km) @
34-36km/h B Grade: 16 laps (32km) @ 36-38km/h A Grade: 18 laps (36km) @ 38-40km/h

Crits favour sprinters.

Regards,

Suzy

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by amirm
This is a silly question, but I ask it because I have never been in a race let alone gone for a club ride. So I don't have any yardstick to measure myself against.

I commute everyday to work with a backpack which weighs 5-10 kg. The trip is over 17 km on each leg. Every afternoon I have to paddle against the head wind. I use part road and part cycle path, and have to cross traffic lights and streets. Also I get to slow down every time I have to pass inconsiderate pedestrians who take the entire bike path with their dogs. Considering all these, my monthly average speed (over about 500-600 km) is usually around 26.5 kmh. I take this as my training sessions! Now my question in regards to the race categories is: Can you tell me how would I perform if I was in a D grade race? I appreciate all that was said before about other real-time factors involved in a race. I just need a yardstick!

Thanks.

It's not a silly question. Most commuting isn't done on roads/routes which you'd normally ride, or at times of the day you'd choose to ride.

I race C in the crits, which average around 36-38kph. I have no issues hanging in there and am usually in the top ten in the sprints, hopefully will be going to B in the crits this year. My average speeds for riding to work with a crumpler are about 25kph, nd the fastest I ever have gone is averages around 27 with a tailwind.

Stopping/starting, carrying loads, riding on bike paths, riding through the city all make it near impossible to avergae in the 30's on a commute unless you ignore all the road rules. On the plus side, it's good for your bike skills and responsiveness.

Sounds like your fitness would be fine for D, but you'd need to do a few races to learn how to stay with the bunch and win.

Regarding the previous question of why you don;t get put up automaticaly if you win once - mathematically, there would be a lot of A graders if everyone kept getting out up and noone left in D grade. The crit season goes for about 5 months, with three or four crits per week. Hence, you nede to show dominance in the grade before you get put up.

"Shabby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

(Shabby - I replied to your post on CyclingForums but the server spat it back at me, reckons you can
only post 1 message every 60 seconds.. funny coz I've only posted one message there in 24 hours!
mumble grumble.. anyway I can track stand on it now.)

Quoted message said:

I race C in the crits, which average around 36-38kph. I have no issues

I've not looked at avg. speed for my D grade races. Must do that.

Quoted message said:

will be going to B in the crits this year. My average speeds for

riding

Quoted message said:

to work with a crumpler are about 25kph, nd the fastest I ever have

gone

Quoted message said:

is averages around 27 with a tailwind.

My avg. commute would be 26-27kph. My best is approx. 33kph.

Quoted message said:

Stopping/starting, carrying loads, riding on bike paths, riding

through

Quoted message said:

the city all make it near impossible to avergae in the 30's on a

commute

Quoted message said:

unless you ignore all the road rules. On the plus side, it's good for your bike skills and
responsiveness.

The 33kph was during school holidays with little traffic, all on road, with a backpack and a good
run with lights (i.e not many/any stops). It's also slightly downhill for the 26k (uphill on the way
home though). I don't ride through the city either and probably had a tailwind. I was on my slicked
mtb too - should try again with my nice roadie.

Quoted message said:

Sounds like your fitness would be fine for D, but you'd need to do a

few

Quoted message said:

races to learn how to stay with the bunch and win.

Don't worry about speed or fitness. If you ride a bit you can at least enter a race and find out
about it. If you come dead last you will know where you stand and can try again after some training,
or even more races. Racing makes you faster, simple as that. I was scared in my first race and I
still get butterflies (I'm still a newbie really) but it's damn good fun. :-) Give it a shot!

hippy

"Suzy Jackson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Arpit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How long are the races typically?

Short and fast, so you're on the verge of exploding the whole way. RBCC usually does the
following:

E Grade: 6 laps (12km) @ 26-30km/h D Grade: 10 laps (20km) @ 32-34km/h C Grade: 14 laps (28km)
@ 34-36km/h B Grade: 16 laps (32km) @ 36-38km/h A Grade: 18 laps (36km) @ 38-40km/h

Just out of curiosity, does the circuit have a climb in it or is it very exposed and technical ?

rickster said:

Just out of curiosity, does the (RBCC) circuit have a climb in it or is it very exposed and
technical ?

Please see here for a map and description:

randwickbotanycc.comLocation%20Map.htmOpen ↗

They're not wrong about it being windy most days! When the southerly is in, the final straight is
like riding through sand.

And the map forgets to mention a third "pimple type riser" at the NW corner of the circuit. Nothing
serious, but it does get you out of the saddle for one more time per lap.

&roo