Road Bike Bar Height

Bob C said:

Here I am with a new road bike. The seat is about 1/1/2 inches below the
saddle. I'm in my mid to late 60's and I think my after ride neck aches and
sometimes headaches are due to this 1 1/2 inch drop. Questions :

1 Will the discomfort get better over time. Should I persevere at the
current settings or raise the bars. (About three months at 1 1/2" below
seat so far. Sometimes the neck is OK sometimes not)

2. Are there any exercises I can do to improve my flexibility
--
Bob C

I believe that having the bars that low is a very extreme position for
someone your age.Or half your age 🙂 You could raise your bars as
much as an inch or more. It all depends on how much you are riding. If
you are new or returning to the sport it will take much time to become
comfortable in a lower position.

Bob C said:

Here I am with a new road bike. The seat is about 1/1/2 inches below the

<snip>

Quoted message said:

1 Will the discomfort get better over time. Should I persevere at the
current settings or raise the bars. (About three months at 1 1/2" below
seat so far. Sometimes the neck is OK sometimes not)

<snip>

Quoted message said:

--
Bob C

Hi Bob,

for general purpose touring/road riding, top of bars level with seat is
a good place to start. Lower bars will improve your aerodynamics a
bit, but at level all round, the bar tops are high enough to be
comfortable, the hoods a little lower for pressing on, and the drops
are still low enough to get your head down a bit for pushing into a
head wind or sprinting.

As regards the stiff neck etc., try conciously moving your grip around
on the bars every few miles. You can also try leting go of the bars
and siting up (when safe to do so!) and stretch out your shoulders and
neck. Also, make sure that your grip on the bars is not "clenched" up.
The muscles in your arms and shoulders should be relaxed.

With the bars too low, a lot of weight can be thrown onto the arms,
causing shoulder and neck strain. Likeiwse, your saddle should be
about level, or at most *very* slightly tilted forward (<5 degrees is
afigure often mentioned). If the saddle is tilted significantly
forward, again, too much weight can fall onto the arms.

It kinda depends on what type of riding you are doing. Are you racing,
training, touring? What distances are typical? What breaks are you
taking?

Rivendell have a nice article on bike setup =>
http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/rr_comfposition.html

It's fairly touring oriented, but to me that means longer distances
ridden in comfort, rather than flat out speed, so it suits the way I
like to ride.

HTH

Regards,

bookieb

Bob C said:

Here I am with a new road bike. The seat is about 1/1/2 inches below the saddle. I'm in my mid to late 60's

Quoted message said:

1 Will the discomfort get better over time.

Maybe. You say this is a new bike. What was the drop on your old bike,
and did you have neck problems? Things like a helmet with a visor, or
sliding eyeglasses can add to neck problems.

If you determine that you need the bars higher, see if spacers can be
moved from above to below your (threadless) stem, or get a stem with
more rise.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/handsup.html

1-1/2" isn't extreme, especially if you are tall (large frame). I'm in
my mid 50s and have a 2-1/2" drop to the bars (63 cm frame). But
there's no point suffering if raising the bars will make you
comfortable.

2. Are there any exercises I can do to improve my flexibility

Yes. Do a Google search on neck exercises.

Art Harris

Bob C said:

Here I am with a new road bike. The seat is about 1/1/2 inches below the
saddle. I'm in my mid to late 60's and I think my after ride neck aches and
sometimes headaches are due to this 1 1/2 inch drop. Questions :

1 Will the discomfort get better over time. Should I persevere at the
current settings or raise the bars. (About three months at 1 1/2" below
seat so far. Sometimes the neck is OK sometimes not)

2. Are there any exercises I can do to improve my flexibility

Many stems are reversible allowing them to have a rise instead of a dip.
If yours is such, you can reverse the stem (flip it) for a more
comfortable ride.

I've been told that most casual or starting riders should have their
seats / saddles about even with their bars.

If your seat is below the saddle, it's no wonder that you're
uncomfortable! (sorry, couldn't resist!)

Lew

Bob C said:

Here I am with a new road bike. The seat is about 1/1/2 inches below the
saddle. I'm in my mid to late 60's and I think my after ride neck aches and
sometimes headaches are due to this 1 1/2 inch drop. Questions :

1 Will the discomfort get better over time. Should I persevere at the
current settings or raise the bars. (About three months at 1 1/2" below
seat so far. Sometimes the neck is OK sometimes not)

2. Are there any exercises I can do to improve my flexibility

Spend the time (and $$) to set up the bike so it's comfortable to ride
now. Your comfort may improve over time with the current arrangement,
but it may not. There's no point in needless suffering to find out.

If the bike has drop bars, you can tell when you may be ready for lower
bars when you can ride in the drops for extended periods. If you can't
ride comfortably in the drops even briefly, I think you'd be better off
with higher bars. Just put them where you're comfortable -- ignore all
the style and efficiency arguments for the time being. A good bike shop
should be able to get whatever height you need.

People with bars too low tend to straighten their arms, a bend there is
important to absorb road vibrations, that might be a factor in your neck
problems. Also, the frames of glasses or helmet visors may cause you to
crane your neck more than necessary.

I don't know if you're new to riding or just this bike, but if the
former, sometimes a little anxiety can cause rigid bike posture, which
is a recipe for soreness. Try to shift positions, stay relaxed, and
perhaps get off the bike occasionally to stretch things out.

Bob C said:

Here I am with a new road bike. The seat is about 1/1/2 inches below the
saddle. I'm in my mid to late 60's and I think my after ride neck aches and
sometimes headaches are due to this 1 1/2 inch drop. Questions :

1 Will the discomfort get better over time. Should I persevere at the
current settings or raise the bars. (About three months at 1 1/2" below
seat so far. Sometimes the neck is OK sometimes not)

2. Are there any exercises I can do to improve my flexibility

In addition to other's advice on raising the bars, consider the reach as
well. Both horizontal reach and drop both effect the reach from the saddle.

There are exercises you can do to *strengthen* the neck muscles, which
will allow them to stand the stress better, but that's no substitute for
a good fit.

Robin Hubert

Bob C said:

Here I am with a new road bike. The seat is about 1/1/2 inches below the
saddle.

You mean the bars, but that would be too low for me, and at 54 I ought to
be more limber than you. This is a result of bike marketing nonsense
rather than good riding position.

Despite what the dealers and manufacturers want you to think, we are not
all 22-year-old elite racers. When I was a 22-year-old (not elite) racer
no one had the bars all that much lower than the saddle.

Of course, with the "new, improved" threadless headset you no doubt have,
you have no option but to find a riser stem unless you have more room to
swap spacers around. Riser stems are available, but aren't particularly
cheap. Get one, anyway, since it will make life more comfortable.

Quoted message said:

1 Will the discomfort get better over time.

Not really.

Quoted message said:

Should I persevere at the
current settings or raise the bars.

Raise the bar.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass.
_`\(,_ | What are you on?" --Lance Armstrong
(_)/ (_) |

Bob C said:

Quoted message said:

Here I am with a new road bike. The seat is about 1/1/2 inches below
the saddle. I'm in my mid to late 60's and I think my after ride neck
aches and sometimes headaches are due to this 1 1/2 inch drop.
Questions :

1 Will the discomfort get better over time. Should I persevere at the
current settings or raise the bars. (About three months at 1 1/2"
below seat so far. Sometimes the neck is OK sometimes not)

2. Are there any exercises I can do to improve my flexibility

Peter Cole wrote:

Spend the time (and $$) to set up the bike so it's comfortable to ride
now. Your comfort may improve over time with the current arrangement,
but it may not. There's no point in needless suffering to find out.

If the bike has drop bars, you can tell when you may be ready for lower
bars when you can ride in the drops for extended periods. If you can't
ride comfortably in the drops even briefly, I think you'd be better off
with higher bars. Just put them where you're comfortable -- ignore all
the style and efficiency arguments for the time being. A good bike shop
should be able to get whatever height you need.

People with bars too low tend to straighten their arms, a bend there is
important to absorb road vibrations, that might be a factor in your neck
problems. Also, the frames of glasses or helmet visors may cause you to
crane your neck more than necessary.

I don't know if you're new to riding or just this bike, but if the
former, sometimes a little anxiety can cause rigid bike posture, which
is a recipe for soreness. Try to shift positions, stay relaxed, and
perhaps get off the bike occasionally to stretch things out.

Dammit Peter, I wanted to reply to this thread, but you beat me to it,
and said everything I would have said, probably phrased better than I
would have.

Don't you know that engineers are supposed to be awkward at expressing
themselves verbally?

Sheldon "Beaten To The Punch" Brown
+---------------------------------------------+
| If your bike has drop handlebars, but you |
| rarely or never ride on the drops, it’s a |
| sure sign that your bike is not properly |
| fitted or is not properly adjusted! |
| See: http://sheldonbrown.com/handsup |
+---------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Bob C said:

Here I am with a new road bike. The seat is about 1/1/2 inches below
the saddle. ^^^^^

Your hammies must be /really/ strong by now!

Bill "blame that other guy who caught it but didn't quote it" S.

(PS: you might try simply rotating the handlebar /up/ a bit, so the hoods
are just a tad higher than currently. Don't use a visor, and shake your
head/neck/shoulder area now and then to stay loose. Stop and stretch.
Yada-yada-yada...)

Sheldon Brown said:

Dammit Peter, I wanted to reply to this thread, but you beat me to it,
and said everything I would have said, probably phrased better than I
would have.

Don't you know that engineers are supposed to be awkward at expressing
themselves verbally?

Sheldon "Beaten To The Punch" Brown
+---------------------------------------------+
| If your bike has drop handlebars, but you |
| rarely or never ride on the drops, it’s a |
| sure sign that your bike is not properly |
| fitted or is not properly adjusted! |
| See: http://sheldonbrown.com/handsup |
+---------------------------------------------+

Sheldon, you have always been my inspiration, both for style and content
-- but thank you anyway!

"Bob C" <patnbobattpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Here I am with a new road bike. The seat is about 1/1/2 inches below the
saddle. I'm in my mid to late 60's and I think my after ride neck aches
and sometimes headaches are due to this 1 1/2 inch drop. Questions :

1 Will the discomfort get better over time. Should I persevere at the
current settings or raise the bars. (About three months at 1 1/2" below
seat so far. Sometimes the neck is OK sometimes not)

2. Are there any exercises I can do to improve my flexibility
--
Bob C

I don't know if my reply adds anything not already said by others, but here
goes...

First, let me say I'm in my early 50's, but, I have kidney failure and I've
been on dialysis for over 3 years. So, you're probably more fit than I am by
a wide margin.

What feels comfortable about bar height depends on many factors. In the old
days (my younger days), most people who rode a 10-speed had their handlebars
about level with the saddle top, more or less (which is what most books
recommended at that time). But, you have to realize that in those days,
smaller bikes had essentially the same top tube length as taller bikes.
Frames were not built proportionally, and so, shorter people on shorter
bikes would have to have higher handlebars. On a more "modern" bike that is
proportional, you have to consider the length of the cockpit. If bars feels
way too low at 1-1/2 inches below the saddle, it could be that they are in
fact too low, or it could be that they are too far away from you, or a
combination of both. You can experiment for yourself (as long as you have
the stems to do it with), but just raising the bars may not solve the
problem, and it may create other problems. Everyone has a certain optimal
geometry (back angle, etc.) that they are comfortable pedalling with. If
you're not comfortable with your current bar height (1-1/2 inches is not
that far below saddle but maybe too low for you - mine is 3/4 of an inch
below the saddle), it doesn't necessarily follow that a higher bar will be
much more comfortable. For one thing, with a fine road bike, it may totally
unbalance your ride, putting too much of your weight on the back wheel, and
you may still feel too bent over if you don't shorten the stem length. Have
you tried a shorter stem?

All I can really say is you have to try it to see for yourself what works
for you. Arm length, etc. can differ considerably. Personally, on my road
bike, I've tried it higher, but I find that I feel best with an 80mm stem
(it's a 50cm bike) set about 3/4 inch below the saddle - so the longer Nitto
stem stays in the closet in favour of the sexy, shapely little 3T quill stem
(very sadly out of production now). It always feels low when I first ride
after a layoff, but I soon get used to it after only a few blocks. I do
other things to keep my flexibility up though. It IS worth the expense and a
few stem changes to see what works best - but you do have to ride a fair
distance with the setup to really know.

By the way, the handlebars themselves have a role to play. The tops will be
in the same place, but some bars have shorter or longer reaches to the
levers, and shallower or deeper drops. Even placement of the levers makes a
difference in comfort. I have my Ergoshifters up high, and the drop tilted
down so the ramp from the tops to the levers is more level.

Pierre

Per Bob C:

Quoted message said:

1 Will the discomfort get better over time. Should I persevere at the
current settings or raise the bars. (About three months at 1 1/2" below
seat so far. Sometimes the neck is OK sometimes not)

I'm 64 and my experience is that the discomfort does not get better over time.

I keep my MTB bars at just about saddle height - both for comfort and being able
to see around/behind me.

Over the years, I've tried repeatedly get used to them lower because my height
dictates a custom steering tube (a little over six inches) to get bars at saddle
height without resorting to an excessive spacer stack. Even with a six-inch
steering tube, I still need risers to get the bars high enough.

But I've always come back to my current setting. I can go down a half inch from
where I am now and rode that way 4x/week/2 hours/ride for about a month; but
the sense of relief/comfort was immediate when I raised them back up.
--
PeteCresswell

Pierre said:

What feels comfortable about bar height depends on many factors. In the old
days (my younger days), most people who rode a 10-speed had their handlebars
about level with the saddle top, more or less (which is what most books
recommended at that time). But, you have to realize that in those days,
smaller bikes had essentially the same top tube length as taller bikes.

That is actually not true, except possibly for cheap bikes.

Quoted message said:

Frames were not built proportionally,

Of course they were.

Quoted message said:

and so, shorter people on shorter
bikes would have to have higher handlebars.

I don't get the "and so" here. Why would shorter people on shorter bikes
have to have higher bars? Shorter stems would make sense, but...

On a more
"modern" bike that is

Quoted message said:

proportional, you have to consider the length of the cockpit. If bars
feels way too low at 1-1/2 inches below the saddle, it could be that
they are in fact too low, or it could be that they are too far away from
you, or a combination of both.

This actually is true, but 1.5" is, IMNSHO, too low for someone 60+ years
old.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass.
_`\(,_ | What are you on?" --Lance Armstrong
(_)/ (_) |

David L. Johnson said:

Bob C said:

Here I am with a new road bike. The seat is about 1/1/2 inches below the saddle.

Quoted message said:

You mean the bars, but that would be too low for me, and at 54 I ought to be more limber than you.

That's a rather ageist remark. Some folks in their 60s are very
flexible. Besides, a 1-1/2" drop isn't what I'd call extreme.

Quoted message said:

This is a result of bike marketing nonsense rather than good riding position.

There are many examples of extreme positions on modern bikes, but I'm
not convinced that's the case here. I'm about your age and I've been
riding with a my bars lower than that for nearly 30 years without
discomfort (as have many active riders with no racing pretensions).

Bob may very well benefit from a "bars at the same height as the
saddle" position, but that's not necessarily the ideal position for all
non-racers.

Art Harris

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
David L. Johnson <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

This actually is true, but 1.5" is, IMNSHO, too low for someone 60+
years old.

I can't figure out what your guideline is. I was curious, as I haven't
really changed my position over many years. My bars are 8,5 cm below the
saddle level. Most of the guys (old ones like me, 57, and older, to 82, in
fact) ride the same rough configuration. After the winter break (2-4
weeks), I usually move a 5mm spacer from above to below the stem, and that
spacer goes back up in around 2 weeks

Getting into a good riding position is not like mimicking your armchair
position. So, the answers may vary widely, depending on what kind of riding
is intended, what kind of bike is being used, etc. One thing that takes a
lot of pressure off your arms and neck is pedaling. Too much weight on the
arms is alleviated by pressing harder. But that's a question of what kind
of riding you want to do.

Advice on the neck stiffness : you are NOT an owl. When you turn your
head, consider adding some shoulder movement. It may be slightly
disorienting (to going straight forward), but it eases the strain on neck
muscles, I think.
--
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine
*******

La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
-- Einstein, A.

In article <[email hidden]>,

David L. Johnson said:

Pierre said:

What feels comfortable about bar height depends on many factors. In the old
days (my younger days), most people who rode a 10-speed had their handlebars
about level with the saddle top, more or less (which is what most books
recommended at that time). But, you have to realize that in those days,
smaller bikes had essentially the same top tube length as taller bikes.

That is actually not true, except possibly for cheap bikes.

Quoted message said:

Frames were not built proportionally,

Of course they were.

Quoted message said:

and so, shorter people on shorter
bikes would have to have higher handlebars.

I don't get the "and so" here. Why would shorter people on shorter bikes
have to have higher bars? Shorter stems would make sense, but...

On a more
"modern" bike that is

Quoted message said:

proportional, you have to consider the length of the cockpit. If bars
feels way too low at 1-1/2 inches below the saddle, it could be that
they are in fact too low, or it could be that they are too far away from
you, or a combination of both.

This actually is true, but 1.5" is, IMNSHO, too low for someone 60+ years
old.

Is it? Why?

--
Michael Press

Quoted message said:

Here I am with a new road bike. The seat is about 1/1/2 inches below the
saddle. I'm in my mid to late 60's and I think my after ride neck aches
and sometimes headaches are due to this 1 1/2 inch drop. Questions :

1 Will the discomfort get better over time. Should I persevere at the
current settings or raise the bars. (About three months at 1 1/2" below
seat so far. Sometimes the neck is OK sometimes not)

What's missing here is how tall you are. As people (and frames) get taller,
I find that the comfortable amont of drop (if any) increases a bit. On
50-54cm frames, people are often comfortable with the bars level with the
seat, while on 60-62cm frames, someone in the same category (age, fitness
etc) will usually find an inch or so drop is fine. Exceptions occur at
either end, of course, but the fact that you're in your mid-to-late 60's
(can't figure out which? I'll be 50 in a few months, but figure I'm actually
in my very, very, very late 30s) doesn't automatically mean that a 1.5" drop
is uncomfortable.

And what about forward reach? Is it possible the drop might be OK with a
shorter stem? I've found that a shorter stem, set a bit lower, allows you to
climb better than a longer stem that's higher up.

But this doesn't have to be a theoretical exercise. It's *so* easy to play
with stem positioning these days, with the ability to flip stems so they're
either high or low, move spacers around, or simply buy a different stem, for
not all that much money. Go to the shop that sold you the bike and ask them
to change things around a bit so you can see what it's like. Shouldn't be
that big a deal.

Quoted message said:

2. Are there any exercises I can do to improve my flexibility

I'm sure there are, but this is about your bike, not your body. Sure, the
two are inter-related, but there's nothing wrong with getting the bike to
fit you comfortably *now.* If you find ways to improve flexibility down the
road, fine, change the fit to suit you. But there's no reason to ride in
pain in the meantime.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

PeteCresswell said:

Per Art Harris:

Quoted message said:

There are many examples of extreme positions on modern bikes, but I'm
not convinced that's the case here. I'm about your age and I've been
riding with a my bars lower than that for nearly 30 years without
discomfort

I wonder if there's an arm/torso length consideration here?

I'm thinking somebody with a short torso and long arms who is not all that
aero'd out could have their hands lower, yet have the same amount of
back/neck
bend as somebody with shorter arms/longer torso.

Absolutely. There are lots of factors. That's why you have to take the
"rules of thumb" with a "grain of salt."

Art Harris