Road Bike Groupset

For me, the jump from Sora to Ultegra was a bit underwhelming, but in my mind it was worth it.

A higher end group is mostly lighter and can do some nifty things like down-shift multiple cogs in a single click from the shifters (I'm not sure if your Sora can do this, mine couldn't - it was pretty old). Unfortunately, the new Ultegra 6700 only downshifts 2 cogs at a time, something you might not like. I had an older Ultegra group for racing and it could downshift 3 cogs at a time, and I really liked the responsiveness.

Some people say that Sora is just as good as Ultegra if maintained correctly. I don't think this is true since you have to adjust Sora a lot more often than a higher group, and the parts on Sora are kind of flimsy in my opinion. For recreational riding, however, it's alright - however, for really, really, long distances, like long tours (thousands of miles), you will need something that's more durable and reliable.

The higher groupsets themselves don't make your bike that much faster, but it will be a little bit more responsive.

What makes a bike faster? I'm not exactly sure, but when I upgraded to a high-end racing bike I went much faster. It's probably a combination of the frameset and wheels. The frame was lighter, and the wheels spun faster as well. It also cornered and handled a lot better, which allows you to maintain speed while cornering and descending - two very important skills in racing. Lightness is a plus too. You know that feeling you get when you go up a hill and your bike slows down a lot? If you get a lighter bike, hard climbs won't be a piece of cake, but that feeling of heaviness will come later and you will be able to maintain a faster speed while going uphill.

I think at 35km/h you will notice some difference from a better bike, but probably not really from just a better groupset. In races where the "little" things matter - like cornering, accelerating, and responsiveness, you will notice a bigger difference with a high-end bike.I'm guessing your bike came with Sora - so the rest of the bike probably isn't too fancy either. In my experience, it's best to wait to buy a new bike if you're thinking of upgrading from Sora because in the long run it's better than buying little pieces one by one - you won't regret it.

wow thanks, really appreciate that 🙂

If you're really doing 100k+ at 35kph, that means you'd finish a 100k race in 2:51:25. At the Tour of the Battenkill (admittedly a difficult course), that'd place you near the top in Cat 3 Men. And you're "knew" to cycling equipment? Would that that I were so "knew"!

rickyp said:

Sorry if this has been covered, I've looked around but haven't found anything specific.

Basically, I wanted to know if an expensive groupset is worth the money. I'm riding on a bike with a Sora groupset right now, and it feels alright, but I've never ridden anything other than this so I wouldn't know.

I'm starting to go on rides over 100km now, and I ride around 35kmh, I was wondering if the money was worth it? I'll be looking to a new bike in the near future anyway, so it'll be good to know how much I should save, and what I should look for in a bike.

Also, if its worth answering, is there anything which makes a particular bike better (faster) than another?

These questions might seem a bit dumb, but I'm really knew to cycling equipment :p

4 things make you ride faster.

Fit-does the bike fit you?
Fitness-are you 'fit'?
Fat-lack thereof on you
Finesse-riding and racing smart.

Way to much emphasis on the bike, not enough on the rider or the ride. If the bike works, ride it, lots.

OldGoat said:

If you're really doing 100k+ at 35kph, that means you'd finish a 100k race in 2:51:25. At the Tour of the Battenkill (admittedly a difficult course), that'd place you near the top in Cat 3 Men. And you're "knew" to cycling equipment? Would that that I were so "knew"!

lol, yeah it was pretty early in the morning when I wrote that... I even checked it a few times because stupid spelling mistakes always annoy me... ah well, next time

I'm thinking of getting a midrange bike next, but getting it properly fitted. Until then, anywhere I can do that on the cheap? Somewhere I can put in my measurements and it'll tell me what adjustments I need to make? I might as well get the most out of my current equipment.

rickyp said:

Basically, I wanted to know if an expensive groupset is worth the money. I'm riding on a bike with a Sora groupset right now, and it feels alright, but I've never ridden anything other than this so I wouldn't know.

I'm starting to go on rides over 100km now, and I ride around 35kmh, I was wondering if the money was worth it? I'll be looking to a new bike in the near future anyway, so it'll be good to know how much I should save, and what I should look for in a bike.

Also, if its worth answering, is there anything which makes a particular bike better (faster) than another?

I've said it before, for a person with a SORA groupset, the best upgrade would be to buy a set of 10-speed (non-QS) Campagnolo shifters ... replacing the SORA rear derailleur with a better 8-/9-speed Shimano rear derailleur would be a benefit, but wouldn't be necessary and/or a new 8-speed cassette (an 8-speed SRAM cassette is fine) -- your cost would be LESS THAN $200(US) if you are a wise shopper off of eBay ... $400+ if you aren't.

So, IMO, for less than $200 you'll have better shifters than you would get on a bike that costs more than $1500 ...

AFTER changing the shifters/etc. (some say 'before' would be better) you would want to consider better tyres/tubes and/or wheels.

Almost anything you buy for your current bike can be removed & installed on a future bike.

Proper MAINTENANCE & adjustment of the components can make one bike faster than another if they are otherwise the same (or, similar).

rickyp said:

I'm thinking of getting a midrange bike next, but getting it properly fitted. Until then, anywhere I can do that on the cheap? Somewhere I can put in my measurements and it'll tell me what adjustments I need to make? I might as well get the most out of my current equipment.

Almost any on-line vendor has a sizing chart -- e.g., The Colorado Cyclist :: Bicycle Parts and Accessories

The on-line information is a good starting point ... your aesthetic sensibilities OR physical condition can easily affect sizing ... for example, some people like to have a lot of 'exposed' seatpost and they will choose a smaller frame than another person might OR than some professional fitters might suggest ...

Regardless, the fore-aft measurement (which can be adjusted to some extent by the length of the stem chosen + the handlebar reach & adjustment) is more important than the vertical.

If your not racing then why bother with Ultegra or DuraAce? I actually knew guys who raced on 105 and had way less problems then those on Ultegra and DuraAce. I don't think Sora (a entry level recreational groupset) are all that great when for just a few dollars more you can get a much more durable 105 groupset (a entry level racing groupset). Recreational groupsets like the Sora are designed for limited riding, not for the rigors of race training or long distance credit card touring like the 105 is.

Beside all the stuff that Peter correctly said about: 4 things make you ride faster: Fit-does the bike fit you? Fitness-are you 'fit'? fat-lack thereof on you; Finesse-riding and racing smart. Certain bikes are naturally faster like Tri bikes such as the Cervelo P series. Otherwise components don't make you faster.

I suggest you test ride several bikes to find the one that seems the fastest to you.

Thanks for all the help guys,

I think i'm just gonna ride my current bike into the ground and build up whatever fitness level I can. During that time i'll save up for a mid range 105 bike, and get it properly fitted.

Again, appreciate all the help 🙂

Froze said:

I don't think Sora (a entry level recreational groupset) are all that great when for just a few dollars more you can get a much more durable 105 groupset (a entry level racing groupset). Recreational groupsets like the Sora are designed for limited riding, not for the rigors of race training or long distance credit card touring like the 105 is.

how does 105 is more durable than Sora? My Sora is about 15000 km and still in perfect condition. Some people insist that Sora should be more ofeten serviced than tiagra and 105. I dont know why- i dont do any servicing exept changing casetes and chains for years and it performs well.
And 105 is more on twice the prise of 105 than "few dollars more".
It is not like I am saying that Sora is my dream groupset and you dont want anythig better. I am looking for next bike with 105 (or Veloce) myself- I just dont see how the sora is designed for "limited riding" and not for training or long distance touring. For the money it comes sora is more than just fine.

catlike said:

how does 105 is more durable than Sora? My Sora is about 15000 km and still in perfect condition. Some people insist that Sora should be more ofeten serviced than tiagra and 105. I dont know why- i dont do any servicing exept changing casetes and chains for years and it performs well.
And 105 is more on twice the prise of 105 than "few dollars more".
It is not like I am saying that Sora is my dream groupset and you dont want anythig better. I am looking for next bike with 105 (or Veloce) myself- I just dont see how the sora is designed for "limited riding" and not for training or long distance touring. For the money it comes sora is more than just fine.

You have had incredible luck with your Sora group. The knock against Sora is that there is a lot more plastic used in the components to keep the cost and weight down. The higher end and more expensive groups use light weight metals in these areas. Typically Sora tends to wear more quickly which results in more frequent adjustments to compensate for the wear. It is a good group for the casual rider but would be lacking a little for the hardcore racer or serious tour rider who puts in an outrageous amount of miles and is generally very hard on components.

If your Sora is working good for you, then congratulations. Your experience though is not typical but keep doing whatever it is that you are doing because it obviously is working.

If a person knows how to shift and what gears to be in depending on the chainring used, and rides smoothly, stuff can last longer; but as a rule the lower end stuff doesn't last as long due to plastics etc that shorten components life span.

While high end stuff ALSO does not last as long because in the pursuit of light weightness they make stuff like aluminum gears, carbon fiber parts, that just don't last as long. I'm sure I started a war with those statements!

Once upon a time high end stuff meant it did last the longest, and was using lighter weight materials but not AL gears and CF parts (of course CF didn't exist once upon a time).

This is why the touring crowd and other long distance riders rely mostly on mid level components because they don't sacrifice longevity for less weight.

The price difference from Sora to 105 for the entire group set is about $350 depending on who has the best deal for which group set. Which in my mind, assuming you can afford it and want something better, paying $350 more is not that bad. Whereas going with Ultregra is about $550 more then 105 or about $850 more then Sora, that could put a dampener on a lot of people's budgets.

A very valid reason to move away from Sora is if the rider prefers the shift levers of the Tiagra/105/Ultegra/Dura Ace type shifters. My daughter has a Sora bike. The shifters work very, very well, easy to adjust, no problems at all. She likes it. I don't because I don't like the thumb shifter.

Therefore, for her, it's worth absolutely nothing to change shifters (until they wear out). If OP likes the shifters and they aren't a problem to adjust, and aren't worn out, he's in the same boat.

For me, I would immediately change to whatever other shifter I could afford because life's to short and there are too many affordable options to put up with ergonomics or design features that don't work for me. If all I could afford was Tiagra, I'd be perfectly happy, I'm sure. Since I can afford it, I'd probably go 105 or Ultegra "just because I can" sort of deal.

I just bought Cervelo R5 Sram Red $8500 custom wheels, everything top of the line. I really wanted a high end bike. I upgraded from Trek 1600 SLR 2008 ($1300 bike). I took it for 30 mile ride. my usual route. Did I notice any differences? yes, I did. Was it worth paying so much? NO. I am not a racer, just wanted to have a nice bike. I ride 4mph faster, more comfortable ride. If you ARE a racer these things matter. I think you get $2k bike, put a nice wheelset, Ultergra. it will help you to go faster.

I wonder if losing 5 pounds from the going from the Trek to the Cervelo would be result in a 4mph increase in speed. Maybe we have some math nuts who can calculate that out. There are a lot of bikes on the market today that cost around $3000 that will get the weight down to the same as the Cervelo's 15.2 pound range. Not sure why you spent so much money on a racing bred bike if you don't race when almost any $3,000 15 pound bike would have have done the trick for you and rode more comfortably on long rides. And the goofy thing about ultralight racing bikes is that they won't hold up as long for everyday riding. But obviously that wasn't a consideration for you.

I am a math nut and I can tell you that a lighter bike (5 lbs as you stated) will not increase your speed 4 MPH. You might see a slight increase in your sprint due to getting less mass moving quicker and you might see a slightly quicker time up your favorite hill but these improvements will be very very very insignificant.

You also said "Not sure why you spent so much money on a racing bred bike if you don't race when almost any $3,000 15 pound bike would have have done the trick for you and rode more comfortably on long rides" I have to disagree I top end bike and components shifts and usually rides better than an inexpensive one. So a high dollar bike might just make those long rides more enjoyable. this "ultralight racing bikes is that they won't hold up as long for everyday riding" Is just plain old wrong. ultralight carbon will last just as long as cheap bikes unless you crash it. now there is the chance that you crash just hard enough to break carbon where say a 24 lbs steel frame might of survived but this is such a low probability that I would not worry about it.

I think you are missing the key point and that 95% of cyclist ride for enjoyment, weather it be the enjoyment of loosing weight and being healthy or the enjoyment of just being outside in a human powered machine or even the enjoyment of a 6-8 hour extreme challenge ride. The bottom line is that people ride for enjoyment and everyone has a different budget so if you budget allows for a $10,000 bike and it gives you enjoyment than buy it and ride it.

Yes I am that person I love to ride and average 3000 road miles and 1000 dirt miles a year. I don't race except on very rare conditions and I spend lots of money on high end light weight bikes. I don't buy them expecting to go 4 MPH faster I buy them so that all that time spent on a bike is done so with flawless shifting and a buttery smooth ride.

And for the records my next build will either be the Cervelo R5 or possable the Guru Photron and could cost in excess of $10,000 dollars for a sub 12lbs bike that is dependable enough to ride those miles I stated above. This will happen as soon as I can convince the wife, she doesn't get the same enjoyment out of it as me[IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]. I will do this just because my budget allows and I enjoy it. I will come across jealous people that tell me I am a fool for doing this but I will deal with that for the enjoyment I get out of riding and building bikes.

I am not trying to start an argument just giving you another view.

MMMh - you have some nerve spending your money without getting consensus from others how they think you should spend it!! What arrogance! [IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

A 2%-3% change in total man/machine weight isn't the stuff of which 4mph increases are made. For an "average" 180lb rider on a 20lb bike who drops 5lbs of bike weight, it is not likely that speed will dramatically change given the same effort, same course, etc. Aerodynamics are probably most affected by the switch listed, but still...

In fact, for me I lost time/speed at first. Changed from a converted Trek 930 MTB (1.5 slicks, high end hubs, flat bar,etc) that weighed 25lbs on the nose to a 16lb "ish" carbon fiber machine. After about a year and 3,700 miles of training on the Trek, my m-avg was 18 - 18.5mph on my default 25 mile ride with 1,500ft of vert. First day on the new bike.that same course produced a 17.5 mph m-avg. Lots of sorting and tweaking and by mid-summer I was rolling at 19.5-20.0 consistently. With aero wheels and another ~1lb drop I was able to to gain about another 0.5mph on average ... more aerodynamics than weight.

People told me I would "fly" on the new machine, but I didn't really expect to. I wanted more precise shifting and more responsive handling. I'd like to keep getting stronger as a rider, but no magic bike is going to do that for me ... genes and hard work will take care of that. Know anywhere that is for sale?? :grin:

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by MaxRap [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

I just bought Cervelo R5 Sram Red $8500 custom wheels, everything top of the line. I really wanted a high end bike. I upgraded from Trek 1600 SLR 2008 ($1300 bike). I took it for 30 mile ride. my usual route. Did I notice any differences? yes, I did. Was it worth paying so much? NO. I am not a racer, just wanted to have a nice bike. I ride 4mph faster, more comfortable ride. If you ARE a racer these things matter. I think you get $2k bike, put a nice wheelset, Ultergra. it will help you to go faster.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe you can go 4 mph faster just because you changed your bike - unless your brake pads were rubbing against your rims on the first bike that is.

Assuming you're riding at a decent speed to start with, the power requirements for another 4 mph far exceed the small aero benefit you get from a higher end bike.

Froze I just realized that this is the second page of a thread [IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/redface.gif[/IMG] and now your post makes much more sense. I agree that a high dollar bike will not make you faster and is not needed to race. Most of my ridding buddies that race actually have cheaper bikes to race with due to the fact that they don't want to crash a high dollar road bike in a crit and the race is won by the racer not the bike.

I do still believe that if your budget will allow and you want I high dollar bike than buy it but don't do it thinking you will be faster.