Road rage incident & lessons learned

andrew said:

On my usual commute there is a badly designed junction
which has no bike box. Poor really as it is brand new.

I followed my normal practice of going over the stop line
protected by an extended kerb / refuge & watching the
pedestrian crossings. As I did so I heard a toot of a horn
from behind. I guessed it was from the 38 tonner I was so
keen to avoid & waved back with an open hand.

200m down the road the same Norbert Dresangle comes
ploughing past & although he pulls out at the front cuts
back in so I am less than an arm span away at the back,
very scary.

That's nothing...an overtaking HGV actually brushed my arm
once. Mental note to self: practise those sideways jumps up
onto the pavement for emergencies such as this.

Oh...and you're right - NEVER stop.

andrew said:

On my usual commute there is a badly designed junction
which has no bike box. Poor really as it is brand new.

I followed my normal practice of going over the stop line
protected by an extended kerb / refuge & watching the
pedestrian crossings. As I did so I heard a toot of a horn
from behind. I guessed it was from the 38 tonner I was so
keen to avoid & waved back with an open hand.

200m down the road the same Norbert Dresangle comes
ploughing past & although he pulls out at the front cuts
back in so I am less than an arm span away at the back,
very scary.

<snip>

More info please. Was the lorry at the lights when you got
there or did he arrive after you?

Tim

"Tim Hall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

More info please. Was the lorry at the lights when you got
there or did he arrive after you?

I suspect that the OP probably arrived after the lorry and
squeezed past hoping for a "bike box". Unless the traffic is
jammed up immediately *after* the lights there would seem
little gain to be made by squeezing to the front of the
queue as you simply get a silly "leapfrogging" situation.
The fact that the lorry caught up with the OP after only 200
yards means the road must have been free flowing after the
lights so he would have been better off just waiting in line
with other traffic.

"Adrian Boliston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tim Hall" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

More info please. Was the lorry at the lights when you
got there or did he arrive after you?

I suspect that the OP probably arrived after the lorry and
squeezed past hoping for a "bike box".

Which is never a good idea if the lorry is at the stop
line or maybe only a vehicle behind. They have all kinds
of blind spots and should the lights change whilst a
cyclist is halfway along the trucks length the cyclist is
in a very precarious position, especially if the truck
driver has unusally forgotton to signal before making a
left turn (assuming bike squeezing down the gutter),
squelch comes to mind.

--
Regards, Pete

Peter B said:

Quoted message said:

I suspect that the OP probably arrived after the lorry
and squeezed past hoping for a "bike box".

Which is never a good idea if the lorry is at the stop
line or maybe only a vehicle behind. They have all kinds
of blind spots and should the lights change whilst a
cyclist is halfway along the trucks length the cyclist is
in a very precarious position, especially if the truck
driver has unusally forgotton to signal before making a
left turn (assuming bike squeezing down the gutter),
squelch comes to mind.

Commonest cause of cyclist deaths in London IIRC

Tony

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Andrew

Lesson one, try not to swear & gesticulate in an
offensive manner.

Lesson two, don't stop. Who knows what type of psycho he
could be? Peter Sutcliffe was a lorry driver.

Third & most important lesson. I should have got his
registration to complain to the company. He got away with it
& because I wasn't calm enough he may even think he's right.

Be safe out there.

--
Andrew

Wise words indeed.

I agree with all three of these lessons, but in particular I would pay attention to #2. You cannot know the mental state of the pillock behind the wheel. For all you know you could be about to engage in a shouting match with a martial-arts expert who is just itching to try out his latest debilitating strikes on someone - and who better than the lycra-clad cyclists who's just flipped him the bird?!

Hand gestures - tempting, but I find the best thing to do is just wave and smile. Afterall, if the idiotic motorists get het up about cyclists on the road, they are going to stress themselves into an early grave... and thereby free up road-space for cyclists 😉

With the advent of small and cheap digital cameras (the gadget shop sells some that are the same size as a box of matches for 25 quid) it's easy to nab a quick pic of the offender and then you do not have to rely on your 'little grey cells' (as Poirot calls them) for details about make/model/registration.

in message <408d7445.0@entanet>, Zog The Undeniable

(') said:

andrew said:

On my usual commute there is a badly designed junction
which has no bike box. Poor really as it is brand new.

I followed my normal practice of going over the stop line
protected by an extended kerb / refuge & watching the
pedestrian crossings. As I did so I heard a toot of a
horn from behind. I guessed it was from the 38 tonner I
was so keen to avoid & waved back with an open hand.

200m down the road the same Norbert Dresangle comes
ploughing past & although he pulls out at the front cuts
back in so I am less than an arm span away at the back,
very scary.

That's nothing...an overtaking HGV actually brushed my
arm once.

I've had that. Worse, when cycling round one of the
roundabouts over the M6, I was overtaken very close by a
very fast moving flatbed artic with no load. My memory and
perception of the event is that I was sucked under the deck
by the air wash of the tractor unit. I have a distinct
memory of the steel hooks used to tie down the load going
past over my head. It's possible that my memory is
exaggerating hugely, but in any case it was a *very*
frightening event.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

...but have you *seen* the size of the world
wide spider?

Adrian Boliston said:

I suspect that the OP probably arrived after the lorry and
squeezed past hoping for a "bike box".

I suspect the Norbert driver resented not being first at
the lights.

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!

"Adrian Boliston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I suspect that the OP probably arrived after the lorry and
squeezed past hoping for a "bike box". Unless the traffic
is jammed up immediately *after* the lights there would
seem little gain to be made by squeezing to the front of
the queue as you simply get a silly "leapfrogging"
situation.

"leapfrogging" is not silly it is a perfectly natural
result of two types of traffic that excel in different
situations. If you were to not overtake, then you wouldn't
get any where fast, and basically nullify all the
advantages of being on a bike.

--
Mike W

Tony Raven said:

Peter B said:

Which is never a good idea if the lorry is at the stop
line or maybe only a vehicle behind. They have all kinds
of blind spots and should the lights change whilst a
cyclist is halfway along the trucks length the cyclist is
in a very precarious position, especially if the truck
driver has unusally forgotton to signal before making a
left turn (assuming bike squeezing down the gutter),
squelch comes to mind.

Commonest cause of cyclist deaths in London IIRC

Doesn't totally surprise me, if true. I've decided to do
what the motorbikes do, and only (well, ok, mostly) filter
on the outside.

-dan

--
"please make sure that the person is your friend before
you confirm"

Daniel Barlow said:

Doesn't totally surprise me, if true. I've decided to do
what the motorbikes do, and only (well, ok, mostly) filter
on the outside.

This morning, I got an earful from a cager while doing just
this. He asked "Do you know the highway code?" I replied
"Yes, do you?".

Morons, some of them. Why are they put in charge of
dangerous machinery?

Regards,

-david

In article <[email hidden]>, usenet-
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

With the advent of small and cheap digital cameras (the
gadget shop sells some that are the same size as a box of
matches for 25 quid) it's easy to nab a quick pic of the
offender and then you do not have to rely on your 'little
grey cells' (as Poirot calls them) for details about
make/model/registration.

As mentioned in a previous thread, Which Online have a trial
offer which includes a free digital camera. It has pretty
low resolution but should be high enough to get a number
plate, and for the weight-conscious amongst you, it weighs a
whopping 21g.

I'm currently working on the mounting which will fit onto my
handlebars, and then I'll test it properly. Since it was
free, I have no qualms about taking the box apart, and
wiring the shutter switch to a button on the drops!

Jon

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Jon Senior
As mentioned in a previous thread, Which Online have a trial
offer which includes a free digital camera. It has pretty
low resolution but should be high enough to get a number
plate, and for the weight-conscious amongst you, it weighs a
whopping 21g.

I'm currently working on the mounting which will fit onto my
handlebars, and then I'll test it properly. Since it was
free, I have no qualms about taking the box apart, and
wiring the shutter switch to a button on the drops!

Jon

That sounds an excellent idea, although I guess you will have only the most rudimentary idea about framing. I'm sure someone mentioned a digital camera that had a separate lens assembly that was small enough to mount on the arm of your specs, whils the actual storage unit was remote and could be stored in your jersey pocket. That sounded brilliant until I saw it was about £400!

In answer to your various posts, sorry I've been so long
"andrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On my usual commute there is a badly designed junction
which has no bike box. Poor really as it is brand new.

I know there is no bike box. The Norbert was there & I
rode past him as the lights were at red. The junction is
effectively a large T junction with a dual carriage way
turning into another dual carriage way. I was turning
right and at the lights there are four lanes, two left &
two right. Given I would have to sit in lane three I do
not think it is safer (or quicker ) than avoiding the
"leap frog".

multimap.combrowse.cgiOpen ↗
&gride=429828.406162133&gridn=433981.453927169

I have come down South Accomadation Road & turn right onto
Hunslet Road. Norbert passed me just before Leathley Road
where there is another set of lights.

Quoted message said:

I followed my normal practice of going over the stop line
protected by an extended kerb / refuge & watching the
pedestrian crossings. As I did so I heard a toot of a horn
from behind. I guessed it was from the 38 tonner I was so
keen to avoid & waved back with an open hand.

I do this as I do not like starting from still with Norbet
anxious to make his delivery & the envitable wobble you get
setting off. There is too much pressure and not enough room
to wait on the line.

Quoted message said:

200m down the road the same Norbert Dresangle comes
ploughing past & although he pulls out at the front cuts
back in so I am less than an arm span away at the back,
very scary.

As it is a T junction I can't see the state of the traffic,
so another good reason to pass him.

Quoted message said:

He is out of the cab & effing & blinding. He tells me that
I should have stopped & the line & I answer back.
Somewhere along the line he call me a cnut & threatens
violence. Laughable he tells me to read the highway code

&

Quoted message said:

only later realise I could have told him to read the
sections of use of

the

Quoted message said:

horn & room for cyclists.

Given the first thing Norbert mentioned was going through
the red light (as he saw it I didn't actually) I think he
was [censored] at that & decided that he was the law. He did
not mention me shouting or gesticulating.

Quoted message said:

Third & most important lesson. I should have got his
registration to complain to the company. He got away with
it & because I wasn't calm

enough

Quoted message said:

he may even think he's right.

I have emailed Norbert & expect to here nothing.

Andrew