Roundabouts - turning right

Katanga-Man said:

Guys,
What is the consensus on this one? I want to turn right at an island (i.e.
third exit) and the road approaching is a dual carriage way. Am I quite
within my rights to use my arm to signal that I want to turn right and then
take the right (inside lane) at 100 metres from the roundabout? This seems
eminently reasonable to me. I am not getting in this lane half a mile from
the roundabout since this would slow the traffic down. However, to be able
to get into the right hand lane to turn right can be a difficult so cyclists
need to commence their manoeuvre some distance from the roundabout.
However, all this seems to attract is revving engines in protest from the
cars behind you.

What is everyone's stance on this matter? Am I being reasonable?

I would tend to take control of the left lane and control the lane on the
outside of the roundabout until I reached the exit. That avoids getting mixed
up with lane changing and tends to prevent cars trying to join the roundabout
as you cycle past the entry. I do this frequently on a major A-road/motorway
roundabout without any problems. YMMV

Tony

Katanga-Man said:

Guys,
What is the consensus on this one? I want to turn right at an island (i.e.
third exit) and the road approaching is a dual carriage way. Am I quite
within my rights to use my arm to signal that I want to turn right and then
take the right (inside lane) at 100 metres from the roundabout? This seems
eminently reasonable to me. I am not getting in this lane half a mile from
the roundabout since this would slow the traffic down. However, to be able
to get into the right hand lane to turn right can be a difficult so cyclists
need to commence their manoeuvre some distance from the roundabout.
However, all this seems to attract is revving engines in protest from the
cars behind you.

What is everyone's stance on this matter? Am I being reasonable?

KM (aka Steve)

Yes, I think you are reasonable.

But buy John Franklin's book, 'Cyclecraft' for advice on this and loads of
other situations..

His comment on multi-lane roundabouts:

"As you approach a roundabout on a busy road, make your presence known
early by occupying the primary riding position. In general, you should
start this as soon as you pass the advance 'Roundabout Ahead' sign, but on
highspeed roads, where signing distances are greater, wait until you are
about 100 metres from the junction, though earlier if you are turning right
........ Turning right at a multilane roundabout is more difficult .... It
needs great care, confidence and, preferably, the ability to attain a
sprint speed of about 20mph .... Approach the roundabout in the middle of
the right-hand lane .... Normally, you should not leave sufficient room on
your right for anyone to pass ... Always make the most of others for
protection at any busy roundabout ... Once on the circulatory road, ride to
the left of the centre of the righthand lane until you are opposite the
entry before your exit. Then spiral out of the roundabout in a gradual
curve ... finally adopting the primary riding position on the exit road.
It is usually best not to signal right on the roundabout, but do signal
left clearly before you begin to cycle out of it."

Cyclecraft TSO ISBN 0 11 702051 6
--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "He had delusions of adequacy." - Walter Kerr
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

Katanga-Man said:

Guys,
What is the consensus on this one? I want to turn right at an island (i.e.
third exit) and the road approaching is a dual carriage way. Am I quite
within my rights to use my arm to signal that I want to turn right and then
take the right (inside lane) at 100 metres from the roundabout? This seems
eminently reasonable to me. I am not getting in this lane half a mile from
the roundabout since this would slow the traffic down. However, to be able
to get into the right hand lane to turn right can be a difficult so cyclists
need to commence their manoeuvre some distance from the roundabout.
However, all this seems to attract is revving engines in protest from the
cars behind you.

What is everyone's stance on this matter?

I think you mean that the road approaching has two lanes marked in the
direction you're going - whether or not it's a dual carriageway (ie,
with a central barrier/reservation) is irrelevant.

How long is a piece of string?

100m may or may not be reasonable depending how fast you're cycling and
how fast the motor cars are going and how big the gaps are.

Personally, I'd say that the deciding factor for me is the gaps in the
RH approach lane motor traffic. Worst case scenario: fast, heavy
traffic. Then, if, glancing over my shoulder, I saw a big gap I could
usefully move into anything up to 200 m out or so, I'd signal and move
into it, claiming the lane, being nice and considerate by bringing up my
speed to a brisker pace, and making damn sure my arm was hung out in a
turning right signal to give the following driver the idea. Once
they've slowed up behind you and matched your speed, they're protecting
you by default, you can drop the signal and deal with the roundabout.
If you get a dimwit toot and undertake, keep the speed up and the signal
out until you get a less dimwitted driver behind you doing the protection.

Best case scenario, slow/stationary traffic or very sparse traffic; I'd
happily wait until a few yards before the give-way lines before moving
over.

Otherwise, YMMV.

But do read Cyclecraft by Franklin instead of paying attention to the
deranged ramblings of uk.rec.cycing posters. :-)

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Katanga-Man
<[email hidden]> breathed:

Quoted message said:

Guys,
What is the consensus on this one? I want to turn right at an island (i.e.
third exit) and the road approaching is a dual carriage way. Am I quite
within my rights to use my arm to signal that I want to turn right and then
take the right (inside lane) at 100 metres from the roundabout? This seems
eminently reasonable to me. I am not getting in this lane half a mile from
the roundabout since this would slow the traffic down. However, to be able
to get into the right hand lane to turn right can be a difficult so cyclists
need to commence their manoeuvre some distance from the roundabout.
However, all this seems to attract is revving engines in protest from the
cars behind you.

What is everyone's stance on this matter? Am I being reasonable?

Ok, I'm not really a proper cyclist, I don't generally go anything like
as fast as is often mentioned here and usually do stay right over in the
left hand edge of the road so other people can get past.

However, handling roundabouts, or lane-splitting junctions, IMO, depends
on the speed and volume of the other traffic. If the roundabout is
fairly quiet and/or the traffic is generally moving slowly, then take
the right hand lane, ride in the middle of it, stay in the centre of the
inside lane round the roundabout itself, approaching the exit you want
signal left clearly and swing off in a steady line that takes you into
the left lane of the exit road, all the time keeping a sharp lookout for
anyone trying to pass on the left.

On the other hand if the roundabout is a blur of vehicles all doing 40+
and the roads are busy, get off the bike and use whatever pedestrian
facilities exist to walk it past the roundabout and then get back on.

Legally and morally you have every right to use the roads in the same
way as a motor vehicle driver, but that's not a lot of consolation when
you realise the driver of the 38 ton truck coming across from the left
hasn't seen you and it's already too late to get out of her way...

--
- Pyromancer.
- http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk <-- Pagan Gothic Rock!
- http://www.littlematchgirl.co.uk <-- Electronic Metal!
- http://www.revival.stormshadow.com <-- The Gothic Revival.

Katanga-Man said:

Guys,
What is the consensus on this one? I want to turn right at an island (i.e.
third exit) and the road approaching is a dual carriage way. Am I quite
within my rights to use my arm to signal that I want to turn right and then
take the right (inside lane) at 100 metres from the roundabout? This seems
eminently reasonable to me. I am not getting in this lane half a mile from
the roundabout since this would slow the traffic down. However, to be able
to get into the right hand lane to turn right can be a difficult so cyclists
need to commence their manoeuvre some distance from the roundabout.
However, all this seems to attract is revving engines in protest from the
cars behind you.

What is everyone's stance on this matter? Am I being reasonable?

KM (aka Steve)

Absolutely correct
Iain

Following on from Katanga-Man's message. . .

Quoted message said:

Guys,
What is the consensus on this one? I want to turn right at an island (i.e.
third exit) and the road approaching is a dual carriage way. Am I quite
within my rights to use my arm to signal that I want to turn right and then

(1) Be in control of the situation. This means correct positioning to
_control others_. It also means being in the right gear, and
accelerating smartly to claim your patch of road.

(2) You can be in any lane you like. It is up to you to look after
yourself. It is up to others to share the road safely and peacefully
with you.

(3) A handy technique (as per Cyclecraft) is to use a vehicle on your
right as you enter as a shield.

(4) Think where traffic that is joining with you is going. You're
probably best off picking the entry lane that gives you direct access to
the 'middle' of the circular segment of road (eg middle lane of a 3-lane
roundabout) without cars overtaking you on your left except to
accelerate out at an exit. The more you get sucked towards the centre
of the roundabout the more lanes you have to cross back out again which
is very tricky.

In practice I tend to approach roughly in 'the middle' of the entry
regardless of lanes/width unless I'm definitely better off on the left.

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the icecream business was liquidated
[email hidden]
www.eminent.demon.co.uk/wcc.htm Witham Cycling Campaign
www.eminent.demon.co.uk/rides East Anglian Pub cycle rides

in message <[email hidden]>, Katanga-Man

(') said:

What is the consensus on this one? I want to turn right at an island
(i.e.
third exit) and the road approaching is a dual carriage way. Am I
quite within my rights to use my arm to signal that I want to turn
right and then
take the right (inside lane) at 100 metres from the roundabout?

Yes, this is not only the correct but the only safe thing to do.

Quoted message said:

However, to be
able to get into the right hand lane to turn right can be a difficult
so cyclists need to commence their manoeuvre some distance from the
roundabout. However, all this seems to attract is revving engines in
protest from the cars behind you.

Well, tough titties, frankly. You slow them down by a tiny fraction, and
in doing so substantially reduce your risk of getting killed. It would
be most unreasonable to expect you to do anything else.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

X-no-archive: No, I'm not *that* naive.

"Pyromancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Legally and morally you have every right to use the roads in the same
way as a motor vehicle driver, but that's not a lot of consolation when
you realise the driver of the 38 ton truck coming across from the left
hasn't seen you and it's already too late to get out of her way...

The 38 tonne truck may look menacing but that rep in the vauxhall is the one
you need to watch!