RR: Afflicted by Chinese spokes

Jimbo(san) said:

It has been about two years with the Bianchi S.A.S.S. and up until a
couple of weeks ago it has been a trouble free ride.
That was until about two weeks ago. We were riding a semi epic that
would taken us from home to Bethpage, up the Greenbelt possibly a loop
on Stillwell and home… That would give us a total mileage of close to
50 miles.

On our way to Bethpage I took a bad hit going up a huge curb. I was
trying to time the traffic and the curb was deceptively higher than I
thought. I slammed my rear wheel and thought that this would be
trouble. I was right about the trouble. As we entered Bethpage I
realized the rubbing on my rear wheel was a broken spoke. I hadn’t had
a broken spoke in 7 years and it felt like I was a new rider all over
again. Since our LBS was nearby we rode in and I had the spoke
replaced. I figured that, like my experience seven years ago, I had put
a flat spot on the rim.

About a week later during a night ride I popped a spoke again. This
time I had to head to another LBS as my own shop was at Interbike. The
LBS guy threw me a new spoke and nipple and I replaced it myself. This
got me thinking... Why couldn’t I just finally attempt a rebuild on my
own. A couple of years ago I went and bought a truing stand and the
Jobst Brant book and on JD's advice Gerd Schraner's book.

I went rim shopping locally and could not find a rim at a decent price.
I finally made it back to my LBS to talk with the owner and he and I
looked at the wheel. He was very cool about helping me out on my way to
learning wheel building and suggested I re-use the rim. He seemed to
think it was just a [censored] lacing job with Chinese spokes.

I almost fell over because it was as if was channeling JD! The big
difference is he is a Kona dealer and JD is a Kona hater ;-)

Doug set me up with DT spokes of the correct length and nipples and I
clipped all the spokes and brought the mess home…
I tried using Sheldon Brown’s written instructions but his lacing was
different from the three cross I had laying around. Both Carla and I
were unsure so she suggested we try Gerd’s method… and within… oh let’s
say a reasonable time we had the rim laced up properly.

I put the wheel aside and we ended up watching over my nephew’s going
away party until 3am…. The next afternoon, a little hung over, I
started tensioning it all up. My problem is that I didn’t have the best
spoke wrench… and I did a nice job of rounding those pesky edges off of
a few nipples. The up side is I got the rim into shape and tensioned.

I took a test ride and figured I would beat the snot out of the wheel.
If the wheel tacoed at least I would be near home. To my surprise the
wheel is very rock solid. I also noticed a lot less play back there.

All in all it was a good experience and now I am planning on building a
good rear SS wheel. I will keep this wheel as my spare.

So in closing I will admit that I have experienced what a wheel full of
Chinese spokes will do to your riding.

Jimbo(san)

Thanks for the story Jim, I am interested in building up my own wheels
at some point, you have added some inspiration.

--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado

Owner/Operator of the Pekingnese Ranch.

Jimbo (san) said:

It has been about two years with the Bianchi S.A.S.S. and up until a
couple of weeks ago it has been a trouble free ride.
That was until about two weeks ago. We were riding a semi epic that
would taken us from home to Bethpage, up the Greenbelt possibly a loop
on Stillwell and home. That would give us a total mileage of close to
50 miles.

On our way to Bethpage I took a bad hit going up a huge curb. I was
trying to time the traffic and the curb was deceptively higher than I
thought. I slammed my rear wheel and thought that this would be
trouble. I was right about the trouble. As we entered Bethpage I
realized the rubbing on my rear wheel was a broken spoke. I hadn't had
a broken spoke in 7 years and it felt like I was a new rider all over
again. Since our LBS was nearby we rode in and I had the spoke
replaced. I figured that, like my experience seven years ago, I had
put a flat spot on the rim.

About a week later during a night ride I popped a spoke again. This
time I had to head to another LBS as my own shop was at Interbike. The
LBS guy threw me a new spoke and nipple and I replaced it myself. This
got me thinking... Why couldn't I just finally attempt a rebuild on my
own. A couple of years ago I went and bought a truing stand and the
Jobst Brant book and on JD's advice Gerd Schraner's book.

I went rim shopping locally and could not find a rim at a decent
price. I finally made it back to my LBS to talk with the owner and he
and I looked at the wheel. He was very cool about helping me out on
my way to learning wheel building and suggested I re-use the rim. He
seemed to think it was just a [censored] lacing job with Chinese spokes.

I almost fell over because it was as if was channeling JD! The big
difference is he is a Kona dealer and JD is a Kona hater ;-)

Doug set me up with DT spokes of the correct length and nipples and I
clipped all the spokes and brought the mess home.
I tried using Sheldon Brown's written instructions but his lacing was
different from the three cross I had laying around. Both Carla and I
were unsure so she suggested we try Gerd's method. and within. oh
let's say a reasonable time we had the rim laced up properly.

I put the wheel aside and we ended up watching over my nephew's going
away party until 3am.. The next afternoon, a little hung over, I
started tensioning it all up. My problem is that I didn't have the
best spoke wrench. and I did a nice job of rounding those pesky edges
off of a few nipples. The up side is I got the rim into shape and
tensioned.

I took a test ride and figured I would beat the snot out of the wheel.
If the wheel tacoed at least I would be near home. To my surprise the
wheel is very rock solid. I also noticed a lot less play back there.

All in all it was a good experience and now I am planning on building
a good rear SS wheel. I will keep this wheel as my spare.

So in closing I will admit that I have experienced what a wheel full
of Chinese spokes will do to your riding.

Jimbo(san)

Were these the stock spokes/wheel on the SASS? Is this the one with the
Bianchi-branded cassette hub with a billion points of engagement?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

I find wheel building is very satisfying, built four or five sets of
wheels and all are holding up good. I like to use the 'ping' test using
my thumbnail to check they're all roughly the same tension before final
alignment.
Steve.

spademan o---) * said:

I find wheel building is very satisfying

Isnt it just, i love sitting and fiddling with wheel builds in front of
the TV. I took some perfectly good wheels apart and laced 'snowflake
stylee' just for the hell of it. Actually they wre the longest lasting
set of wheels i ever owned and never needed truing. Had to switch back
when i went to discs though 🙁

J

<Phil, Squid-in-Training

Were these the stock spokes/wheel on the SASS? Is this the one with the
Bianchi-branded cassette hub with a billion points of engagement?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training>

No it is a Spot OEM SS hub that came with a Shimano 16 tooth freewheel.
Rims are WTB speed discs(or something like that).
The front wheel is a Bianchi branded hub on the same WTB Speed disc rims

I am looking at a nice deal on a white Industries Hub and and possibly a Mavic 317 or 517 rim

Jimbo(san)

Jimbo(san) said:

<Phil, Squid-in-Training

Were these the stock spokes/wheel on the SASS? Is this the one with
the
Bianchi-branded cassette hub with a billion points of engagement?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training>

No it is a Spot OEM SS hub that came with a Shimano 16 tooth
freewheel.
Rims are WTB speed discs(or something like that).
The front wheel is a Bianchi branded hub on the same WTB Speed disc
rims

I am looking at a nice deal on a white Industries Hub and and possibly
a Mavic 317 or 517 rim

Jimbo(san)

I'm also drawn to the White Industries freewheel. I have a Shimano on my
SS now (with 217s and Paul Word hubs) and I can envision the benefit of
all those pawls. I just got cheap when spending a bunch on other parts
when I had the wheel rebuilt and the $11 vs $90 swayed me.
Is this nice deal a one time thing or is it something we could get in on
too?

Oh wait, you said hub not freewheel. Well LMK if you have a good line on
those freewheels.

Matt (Need more coffee...)

Jimbo (san) said:

<Phil, Squid-in-Training

Were these the stock spokes/wheel on the SASS? Is this the one with
the
Bianchi-branded cassette hub with a billion points of engagement?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training>

No it is a Spot OEM SS hub that came with a Shimano 16 tooth
freewheel.
Rims are WTB speed discs(or something like that).
The front wheel is a Bianchi branded hub on the same WTB Speed disc
rims

I ask because 2005 SASSes have a Bianchi-branded hub with a cassette body
that has really nice engagement. The rims are the same. I haven't checked
what spokes come on these wheels, but I have a feeling that they're not
totally unbranded and are instead probably Taiwanese Chun Nan spokes, which
are a step up above Chinese [censored]...

I was just interested in knowing if these Chun Nan spokes are breaking,
showing poor(er) quality. It may not just be the spoke but could have been
the (machine) build.

To check if these are Chun-Nan spokes, you can look at the head stamping
here: http://www.cnspoke.com/main2002/cnHead.jpg but you probably threw them
out already.

I had this brand of spoke on my OEM Giant XTC2 wheels a while back, and I
never had any problems with them, but I'm also a 135lb lightweight.

In your case, your riding length likely exceeded the fatigue life of the
spokes, and as a result they all began to fail at the same time.

Quoted message said:

I am looking at a nice deal on a white Industries Hub and and possibly
a Mavic 317 or 517 rim

Make sure that you stress-relieve the spokes. This doesn't mean simply
getting rid of wind-up or that pinging noise you hear when you first ride on
a new wheel. This means breaking out the oven mittens and squeezing pairs
of parallel spokes as hard as you safely can (make sure not to put the rim
out of lateral true). This'll seat the spoke heads better in the hub holes,
relieving stress and preventing fatigue failures. [1]

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

[1] I hate saying "fatigue failure"... people say it all the time without
knowing what it means. Maybe I'll say "cyclical loading failure."

<MattB]
I'm also drawn to the White Industries freewheel. I have a Shimano on my
SS now (with 217s and Paul Word hubs) and I can envision the benefit of
all those pawls. I just got cheap when spending a bunch on other parts
when I had the wheel rebuilt and the $11 vs $90 swayed me.
Is this nice deal a one time thing or is it something we could get in on
too?

Oh wait, you said hub not freewheel. Well LMK if you have a good line on
those freewheels.

Matt (Need more coffee...)>

Carla is using a White industries freewheel as opposed to my Shimano... and there is a difference in quality and engagement...
I got her's at the LBS for something like $75... I bet you can find similar online... $90 sounds a bit high

Jimbo... drinking his coffee black...(san)

<Phil, Squid-in-Training
I ask because 2005 SASSes have a Bianchi-branded hub with a cassette body
that has really nice engagement. >

They have cassette bodies?... I am cornfused.. I have a SS specific hub (Spot) and it came with a Shimano freewheels (that died after a month of riding)... Sounds like you are describing the bike like it comes with a freehub body... I will go to their site and check... I am curious.

<To check if these are Chun-Nan spokes, you can look at the head stamping
here: http://www.cnspoke.com/main2002/cnHead.jpg but you probably threw them
out already.>

They didn't have that marking... They were stamped with a triangle... I only remember because I went back to see if the two DT replacement spokes had broken (they hadn't)

<Make sure that you stress-relieve the spokes. This doesn't mean simply
getting rid of wind-up or that pinging noise you hear when you first ride on
a new wheel. This means breaking out the oven mittens and squeezing pairs
of parallel spokes as hard as you safely can (make sure not to put the rim
out of lateral true). This'll seat the spoke heads better in the hub holes,
relieving stress and preventing fatigue failures. [1]>

Already done...

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training>

Jimbo... relieved but not stressed...(san)

"MattB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm also drawn to the White Industries freewheel. I have a Shimano on my
SS now (with 217s and Paul Word hubs) and I can envision the benefit of
all those pawls. I just got cheap when spending a bunch on other parts
when I had the wheel rebuilt and the $11 vs $90 swayed me.
Is this nice deal a one time thing or is it something we could get in on
too?

Oh wait, you said hub not freewheel. Well LMK if you have a good line on
those freewheels.

Matt (Need more coffee...)

I use the White Industries ENO freewheel on my SS. In my opinion, I will
never use anything else. It is the best quality freewheel out there, IMO.
Its a little more $$, but well worth it. I've been on mine for 1.5 + years
now, and its never skipped a beat, never had 1 single problem with it. Best
price on them that I have seen has been www.webcyclery.com (about $80) but
you will get plenty of years out of 1.

Its so great that I went out and got another one so I can put it on my new
trials bike...

- CA-G

Can-Am Girls Kick Ass!

Jimbo(san) said:

<MattB]
I'm also drawn to the White Industries freewheel. I have a Shimano on
my
SS now (with 217s and Paul Word hubs) and I can envision the benefit
of
all those pawls. I just got cheap when spending a bunch on other parts
when I had the wheel rebuilt and the $11 vs $90 swayed me.
Is this nice deal a one time thing or is it something we could get in
on
too?

Oh wait, you said hub not freewheel. Well LMK if you have a good line
on
those freewheels.

Matt (Need more coffee...)>

Carla is using a White industries freewheel as opposed to my Shimano...
and there is a difference in quality and engagement...
I got her's at the LBS for something like $75... I bet you can find
similar online... $90 sounds a bit high

Jimbo... drinking his coffee black...(san)

Yeah, I'll probably break down and get one next time I feel like tearing
it apart. And the $90 was full retail which my LBS doesn't charge me so
I bet I'd end up paying a similar amount to the price you paid. Still a
pretty remarkable difference in cost when there's no "mid-range" option
between them that I'm aware of.

Thanks,
Matt

Jimbo (san) said:

It has been about two years with the Bianchi S.A.S.S. and up until a
couple of weeks ago it has been a trouble free ride.
That was until about two weeks ago. We were riding a semi epic that
would taken us from home to Bethpage, up the Greenbelt possibly a loop
on Stillwell and home... That would give us a total mileage of close to
50 miles.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

All in all it was a good experience and now I am planning on building a
good rear SS wheel. I will keep this wheel as my spare.

So in closing I will admit that I have experienced what a wheel full of
Chinese spokes will do to your riding.

Jimbo(san)

Wait -- you ride a wheel trouble-free for two years, whang a curb hard
enough to suspect deforming the rim, pop a couple spokes and blame...
the spokes?

/s

"The plaster's falling off the wall
my girlfriend's crying in the shower stall
It's hot as a [censored]
I shoulda been rich
But I'm just diggin this Chinese ditch."

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Wait -- you ride a wheel trouble-free for two years, whang a curb hard
enough to suspect deforming the rim, pop a couple spokes and blame...
the spokes?

DT's don't fail like that.

- CA-G

Can-Am Girls Kick Ass!

<[email hidden]
Wait -- you ride a wheel trouble-free for two years, whang a curb hard
enough to suspect deforming the rim, pop a couple spokes and blame...
the spokes?

/s>

Not quite... I _suspected_ the rim was deformed... The LBS owner inspected it and it was ok... thus I reused it...
Rather that replace spokes as they broke... I re laced the wheel... The build was machine done with crappy spokes...
I don't have anything agianst the Chinese... I swear!!!

Jimbo(san)

Jimbo(san) said:

I don't have anything agianst the Chinese... I swear!!!

Hang on a sec. That's x1134x's (let's just call him x-box from now on)
line.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Ride-A-Lot said:

Jimbo(san) said:

I don't have anything agianst the Chinese... I swear!!!

Hang on a sec. That's x1134x's (let's just call him x-box from now on)
line.

Right. I won't believe you until I hear testimonials from your Chinese
friends!

Matt

Jimbo(san) said:

It has been about two years with the Bianchi S.A.S.S. and up until a
couple of weeks ago it has been a trouble free ride.
That was until about two weeks ago. We were riding a semi epic that
would taken us from home to Bethpage, up the Greenbelt possibly a loop
on Stillwell and home… That would give us a total mileage of close to
50 miles.

On our way to Bethpage I took a bad hit going up a huge curb. I was
trying to time the traffic and the curb was deceptively higher than I
thought. I slammed my rear wheel and thought that this would be
trouble. I was right about the trouble. As we entered Bethpage I
realized the rubbing on my rear wheel was a broken spoke. I hadn’t had
a broken spoke in 7 years and it felt like I was a new rider all over
again. Since our LBS was nearby we rode in and I had the spoke
replaced. I figured that, like my experience seven years ago, I had put
a flat spot on the rim.

About a week later during a night ride I popped a spoke again. This
time I had to head to another LBS as my own shop was at Interbike. The
LBS guy threw me a new spoke and nipple and I replaced it myself. This
got me thinking... Why couldn’t I just finally attempt a rebuild on my
own. A couple of years ago I went and bought a truing stand and the
Jobst Brant book and on JD's advice Gerd Schraner's book.

I went rim shopping locally and could not find a rim at a decent price.
I finally made it back to my LBS to talk with the owner and he and I
looked at the wheel. He was very cool about helping me out on my way to
learning wheel building and suggested I re-use the rim. He seemed to
think it was just a [censored] lacing job with Chinese spokes.

I almost fell over because it was as if was channeling JD! The big
difference is he is a Kona dealer and JD is a Kona hater ;-)

Doug set me up with DT spokes of the correct length and nipples and I
clipped all the spokes and brought the mess home…
I tried using Sheldon Brown’s written instructions but his lacing was
different from the three cross I had laying around. Both Carla and I
were unsure so she suggested we try Gerd’s method… and within… oh let’s
say a reasonable time we had the rim laced up properly.

I put the wheel aside and we ended up watching over my nephew’s going
away party until 3am…. The next afternoon, a little hung over, I
started tensioning it all up. My problem is that I didn’t have the best
spoke wrench… and I did a nice job of rounding those pesky edges off of
a few nipples. The up side is I got the rim into shape and tensioned.

I took a test ride and figured I would beat the snot out of the wheel.
If the wheel tacoed at least I would be near home. To my surprise the
wheel is very rock solid. I also noticed a lot less play back there.

All in all it was a good experience and now I am planning on building a
good rear SS wheel. I will keep this wheel as my spare.

So in closing I will admit that I have experienced what a wheel full of
Chinese spokes will do to your riding.

Jimbo(san)

Nice welcome to the world of wheel building!

I popped a couple of spokes also, but as a result of a snag on a cut,
whacked out root. That was about two years ago, haven't had any probs
since.

Peace,
Bill

The First law, Inertia: Unless acted upon by an outside force,
a body at rest tends to stay at rest,
and a body in motion tends to stay in motion.
Sir Isaac Newton