Running barefoot - will it cause injury?

....only if you are running from A Poltergeist. [See my notable post]
_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

Cathy Weeks said:

My husband is in worse shape - he hasn't exercised regularly in years.
He's also about 40 lbs overweight (at around 220 lbs). He has flat
feet, supinates (well, the outer edge of his shoes wears first) and
tends toward knee and lower back pain.

I think that if he were never to run, shoes wouldn't be that big a
deal. But he wants to run some, too. He said we evolved barefoot
(though I've read that footwear is pretty ubiquitous) and that the
human body (his included) will be fine without such cushion (literally
and figuratively).

We also "evolved" without spending our childhood and adult life walking
in shoes and getting fat, then suddenly commencing an exercise regimen.

It's quite possible that we also "evolved" with fairly high injury and
mortality rates. These specious appeals to "evolution" ignore the fact
that we don't evolve for the purpose of running as effectively as possible,
or staying uninjured under a high training workload (the only creatures
who suffer from stress fractures are us, and domestic animals -- greyhounds
and horses. Other creatures don't get them). We are actually a very lazy
species by design, and we "evolved" to avoid energy expenditure like plague
(which is why he's overweight). Appeals to nature and evolution are
fundamentally misguided, because they erroneously presume that we are
"natural" distance runners, and evolution has "designed" us for the task
of distance running.

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any advice?

Don't do that!

The most risk averse strategy is the best one.

Quoted message said:

Will he be more likely to injure without the shock absorption?

Probably. You'll also probably find out soon enough.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Abebe Bikila set a world record running a marathon BAREFOOT!! 2:15:16 It's
not bad for everybody apparently....

Cathy Weeks said:

Hi,
My husband and I just bought a treadmill, and my husband wants to
run/walk on it barefoot.

I've been a casual runner for years (not that you can tell, with my 40
extra pounds) and everything I've read suggests that shoes are the
number one running "gear" to prevent injury. I've always been big on
wearing the right footwear, regardless of where we are.

My husband is in worse shape - he hasn't exercised regularly in years.
He's also about 40 lbs overweight (at around 220 lbs). He has flat
feet, supinates (well, the outer edge of his shoes wears first) and
tends toward knee and lower back pain.

I think that if he were never to run, shoes wouldn't be that big a
deal. But he wants to run some, too. He said we evolved barefoot

We may have evolved barefoot, but *not* running on a treadmill.

I have high arches and overpronate and a tendency to have poor foot /
ankle function resulting in achilles tendonitis without certain
exercises prescribed by my physical therapist. I've also used barefoot
drills / walking / some running on grass as therapy to help improve -
grass is uneven and provides some support, which a flat surface like a
floor or treadmill does not. Additionally, we run and jump in our socks
on gymnastics floor exercise mats or trampolines in a cross training
class to strengthen foot function. But the shoes get put on for many
drills - which includes the treadmills.

But one thing I avoid for more than about 2 sec is walking on a flat,
firm surface without appropriate footwear. While a treadmill is softer
than a floor, it does not offer the support of a shoe. Where people may
need shoe support because of pronation / supination issues, I'm guessing
they should start with shoes and do foot strengthening exercises, if
they are appropriate for the issues. It may never be appropriate for
them to go without shoes, but the *proper* diagnosis and exercises could
allow them to walk / run injury free.

Quoted message said:

(though I've read that footwear is pretty ubiquitous) and that the
human body (his included) will be fine without such cushion (literally
and figuratively).

He might start out walking barefoot at a slow speed on the tm, but
preferably on grass.

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any advice? Will he be more likely to injure without
the shock absorption?

It may be the foot control that's needed more so than shock absorption.

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

We are actually a very lazy
species by design, and we "evolved" to avoid energy expenditure like

plague

Quoted message said:

(which is why he's overweight).

Bernd Heinrich makes the argument that we are quite good endurance
predators, and there's plenty of anthropological evidence to back that up.
Of course, we can scavenge and trap with the best of 'em, too. It may well
be that wives have evolved to keep the guys out there bringing home the
bacon, to counteract the ever-present CP-1 gene (couch potato).

For example, our upright stance gives us much less solar exposure than a
4-legged beastie, and our hairless and sweating bodies let us dissipate heat
in long runs.

Who you gonna go to to run down a gazelle? Or a deer? You've got your big
cats, your wolves, and H. Sapiens. A cheetah gives up after 100 yards.
Some nutty people on this list don't give up for 100 miles.

I don't denigrate atlatls, bows and arrows, boomerangs, but running is a key
hunting strategy in our species.

Maybe we tend to put on fat to get us through the lean times, so there's
enough left to go out with the boyz on a little 25 mile hunting jaunt.
(although sometimes amerinds let adventurous women join in).

Quoted message said:

Appeals to nature and evolution are
fundamentally misguided, because they erroneously presume that we are
"natural" distance runners, and evolution has "designed" us for the task
of distance running.

It's not only the body that makes us distance runners/predators, it's our
ability to see opportunities, plan ahead and set long-term goals.

These days, I frequent the meat and poultry department for food, and run in
order to met some intangible goal, and test my mettle.

Just thought I'd throw out some contrarian views...

-- Dan

Dan Stumpus said:

Quoted message said:

Who you gonna go to to run down a gazelle? Or a deer? You've got your big
cats, your wolves, and H. Sapiens. A cheetah gives up after 100 yards.
Some nutty people on this list don't give up for 100 miles.

The cheetah is smarter than most of the people on this list. It knows that if
it expends too much energy in the process of obtaining its food, it will
starve.

Until we started running for the hell of it, we were also miserly with energy.

Quoted message said:

I don't denigrate atlatls, bows and arrows, boomerangs, but running is a key
hunting strategy in our species.

Maybe we tend to put on fat to get us through the lean times, so there's
enough left to go out with the boyz on a little 25 mile hunting jaunt.

Maybe, but I doubt it. Why expend more energy than necessary ? If you can
find a way to catch it with only 1 mile of running, why do 25 instead ?

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Shoes are for road running. Going barefoot on a treadmill is fine.

[email hidden] (Cathy Weeks) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hi,
My husband and I just bought a treadmill, and my husband wants to
run/walk on it barefoot.

I've been a casual runner for years (not that you can tell, with my 40
extra pounds) and everything I've read suggests that shoes are the
number one running "gear" to prevent injury. I've always been big on
wearing the right footwear, regardless of where we are.

My husband is in worse shape - he hasn't exercised regularly in years.
He's also about 40 lbs overweight (at around 220 lbs). He has flat
feet, supinates (well, the outer edge of his shoes wears first) and
tends toward knee and lower back pain.

I think that if he were never to run, shoes wouldn't be that big a
deal. But he wants to run some, too. He said we evolved barefoot
(though I've read that footwear is pretty ubiquitous) and that the
human body (his included) will be fine without such cushion (literally
and figuratively).

Does anyone have any advice? Will he be more likely to injure without
the shock absorption?

Cathy Weeks

Ignore this moron. Barefoot running will cause far less injurys even
on trails outdoors. On a treadmill it is just NOT required.

Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Cathy Weeks said:

My husband is in worse shape - he hasn't exercised regularly in years.
He's also about 40 lbs overweight (at around 220 lbs). He has flat
feet, supinates (well, the outer edge of his shoes wears first) and
tends toward knee and lower back pain.

I think that if he were never to run, shoes wouldn't be that big a
deal. But he wants to run some, too. He said we evolved barefoot
(though I've read that footwear is pretty ubiquitous) and that the
human body (his included) will be fine without such cushion (literally
and figuratively).

We also "evolved" without spending our childhood and adult life walking
in shoes and getting fat, then suddenly commencing an exercise regimen.

It's quite possible that we also "evolved" with fairly high injury and
mortality rates. These specious appeals to "evolution" ignore the fact
that we don't evolve for the purpose of running as effectively as possible,
or staying uninjured under a high training workload (the only creatures
who suffer from stress fractures are us, and domestic animals -- greyhounds
and horses. Other creatures don't get them). We are actually a very lazy
species by design, and we "evolved" to avoid energy expenditure like plague
(which is why he's overweight). Appeals to nature and evolution are
fundamentally misguided, because they erroneously presume that we are
"natural" distance runners, and evolution has "designed" us for the task
of distance running.

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any advice?

Don't do that!

The most risk averse strategy is the best one.

Quoted message said:

Will he be more likely to injure without the shock absorption?

Probably. You'll also probably find out soon enough.

Cheers,

Dot <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Cathy Weeks wrote:

This woman is the biggest piece of misinfo to ever post here. She has
"issues" with her feet, so unless you have the exact same issues, or
similar problems, anything she says is tainted.

Quoted message said:

We may have evolved barefoot, but *not* running on a treadmill.

I have high arches and overpronate and a tendency to have poor foot /
ankle function resulting in achilles tendonitis without certain
exercises prescribed by my physical therapist. I've also used barefoot
drills / walking / some running on grass as therapy to help improve -
grass is uneven and provides some support, which a flat surface like a
floor or treadmill does not. Additionally, we run and jump in our socks
on gymnastics floor exercise mats or trampolines in a cross training
class to strengthen foot function. But the shoes get put on for many
drills - which includes the treadmills.

But one thing I avoid for more than about 2 sec is walking on a flat,
firm surface without appropriate footwear. While a treadmill is softer
than a floor, it does not offer the support of a shoe. Where people may
need shoe support because of pronation / supination issues, I'm guessing
they should start with shoes and do foot strengthening exercises, if
they are appropriate for the issues. It may never be appropriate for
them to go without shoes, but the *proper* diagnosis and exercises could
allow them to walk / run injury free.

Quoted message said:

(though I've read that footwear is pretty ubiquitous) and that the
human body (his included) will be fine without such cushion (literally
and figuratively).

He might start out walking barefoot at a slow speed on the tm, but
preferably on grass.

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any advice? Will he be more likely to injure without
the shock absorption?

It may be the foot control that's needed more so than shock absorption.

Dot

Pekaar Head said:

Ignore this moron. Barefoot running will cause far less injurys even
on trails outdoors. On a treadmill it is just NOT required.

Here's my trump card, bozo --

cite, please ?

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Dot said:

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any advice? Will he be more likely to injure without
the shock absorption?

It may be the foot control that's needed more so than shock absorption.

I saw stats (here? or elsewhere?) that shoes don't prevent shock
injury. There's the same incident of injury, but it's relocated
up the leg a bit. Shoes feel better, but that's about it.

As for foot control, people who grow up without shoes develop the
muscles to compensate for problems in their feet so they can walk
in their environment, but if they don't have shoes we're probably
talking about distances under a mile or two on dirt surfaces. And
it says nothing about their ability to run long distances. Get
one running our distances and he may be no better off than the guy
who's running in shoes he bought at Walmart.

A rhetorical question: do you refuse to wear glasses because
they're "unnatural"? What about sunglasses on a sunny day? If
not, what's the difference between that and wearing (corrective)
shoes when running. People who need glasses aren't blind - they
rarely have problems in their own house, etc. But only a fool
would drive with 20/100 vision or worse. Same thing with shoes if
your foot rolls - it's one thing to go barefoot or in cheap shoes
while working in your yard or strolling around the mall, it's a
very different thing to run for an hour.

Bear G said:

Dot said:

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any advice? Will he be more likely to injure without
the shock absorption?

It may be the foot control that's needed more so than shock absorption.

I saw stats (here? or elsewhere?) that shoes don't prevent shock
injury. There's the same incident of injury, but it's relocated
up the leg a bit. Shoes feel better, but that's about it.

That's a slight misstatement -- it's more accurate to say that there's no hard
evidence that shoes prevent injury. The reason, I suspect, is that the only
way to answer the question conclusively would be to do controlled clinical
trials, and getting permission to do human subjects research which is likely
to cause injure to the subjects is difficult. It's also true, despite the
blathering of barefoot crackpots, that there's no hard evidence that running
barefoot reduces injury.

There have also been measurements to show that humans can flex their knees
etc to absorb extra shock. But that requires different muscular recruitment
patterns, so that could still result in tendonitis (though it would help
prevent stress fractures).

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Quoted message said:

Abebe Bikila set a world record running a marathon BAREFOOT!! 2:15:16 It's
not bad for everybody apparently....

And he did it his whole life, on natural surface trails.
A middle age person just starting running in paved suburbia is another situation.

I agree with those who say that running barefoot on grass, or perhaps on a
beach, is better than on a hard uniform flat surface like a treadmill. For
about a year I lived near a giant well-groomed grass field with a 1km cinder
track around it. Some days I would run on the cinder track in running
shoes, and other days I would walk or run on the grassy infield instead.
During my runs on the grass I would also do sets of 100-200 meter sprints
barefoot once my feet got accustomed to it. If you can find such a place
that you're sure won't have broken glass, etc. I highly recommend it. It's
a very powerful feeling to run top speed barefoot.

-Tony

<< The cheetah is smarter than most of the people on this list. It knows that
if
it expends too much energy in the process of obtaining its food, it will
starve.

Until we started running for the hell of it, we were also miserly with energy.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

DonVon!
That's a contradiction!
What's wrong, today,
Your diction?
Lost your canary?

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

<< Barefoot running will cause far less injurys even

Quoted message said:

on trails outdoors. On a treadmill it is just NOT required.

Here's my trump card, bozo --

cite, please ?

Cheers,
Donovan Rebbechi >>

O no.
You sound like a
3rd rock.

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

<< This woman is the biggest piece of misinfo to ever post here. She has
"issues" with her feet, so unless you have the exact same issues, or
similar problems, anything she says is tainted. >>

Who, misinfo?

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

[Bear]
<< I saw stats (here? or elsewhere?) >>

You, too, see stars?

<< people who grow up without shoes develop the
muscles to compensate for problems in their feet so they can walk
in their environment, but if they don't have shoes we're probably
talking about distances under a mile or two on dirt surfaces. And >>

Country kids,
Country urchins...

<< A rhetorical question: do you refuse to wear glasses because
they're "unnatural"? What about sunglasses on a sunny day? If
not, what's the difference between that and wearing (corrective)
shoes when running. >>

O dear,
You sound like thos AD[Hi!]D
Posters?

<< People who need glasses aren't blind - >>

Corrective sight,
Night's blind?
Try: Doogles!
"Protecting the world
One dog at a time."

www.doggles.com

<< But only a fool would >>

....keep coming back here...

<< it's one thing to go barefoot or in cheap shoes
while working in your yard or strolling around the mall, >>

The Mall!
Hey, yall!
Let's go to the Mall,
Eat a Chick-Fillet,
Lick a Zebra ice-cream cone,
Or, just generally roam...
Later, we'll come back home,
Make sloppy joes for supper.

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

[DonVon]
<< flex their knees
etc to absorb extra shock. But that requires different muscular recruitment
patterns, >>

Attende Royal Troops!
By Royal Order de Morning Wood.
I hereby demand
The truth! Vertias!
Me, have I been recruited?
If so, by whom,
For what?
Purpose, yes,
Sought I...
What hath Thee wrought
On me,
Here on your knee,
My, too,
On mind...
*bow wow*
/ * &
Bless me.

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>