Running Jacket

asdf said:

any recommendations on a windproof running jacket with a hood.
Most of the ones that i see dont have hoods. And others aren't windproof.
I need something in X-large size. The price I'm looking for should be
somewhere
below 100$.

Marmot Precip $99 at REI (I got one on sale for $69). Waterproof,
windproof and breathable with a hood and zippered arm vents.

--
- The Trailrunner

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The Trailrunner said:

asdf said:

any recommendations on a windproof running jacket with a hood.
Most of the ones that i see dont have hoods. And others aren't windproof.
I need something in X-large size. The price I'm looking for should be
somewhere
below 100$.

Marmot Precip $99 at REI (I got one on sale for $69). Waterproof,
windproof and breathable with a hood and zippered arm vents.

Marmot Precip is what I use for water proof.
But if it's just windy (not raining or snowing)
I generally just done a couple layers of poly
(one inner layer and a looser outer layer)
depending on the wind chill..

Tom Phillips said:

The Trailrunner said:

asdf said:

any recommendations on a windproof running jacket with a hood.
Most of the ones that i see dont have hoods. And others aren't windproof.
I need something in X-large size. The price I'm looking for should be
somewhere
below 100$.

Marmot Precip $99 at REI (I got one on sale for $69). Waterproof,
windproof and breathable with a hood and zippered arm vents.

Marmot Precip is what I use for water proof.
But if it's just windy (not raining or snowing)
I generally just done a couple layers of poly
(one inner layer and a looser outer layer)
depending on the wind chill..

And a 3rd vote for Marmot Precip for waterproof / windproof. It doesn't
breathe, but if the wind is a crosswind, the pit zips work well for
ventilation (open downwind side in heavy rain - duh).

I also have Patagonia Krushell which is windproof, NOT waterproof, NOT
breathable, and no pit zips. About the same weight as Precip, iirc (10 oz)

In the lightweight, windproof, I use Marmot Chinook (about 3 oz) - fewer
pockets than the others, not rainproof, no pitzips - but it takes less
space in pack.

If it's just breezy, I may be able to get by without shell, but always
have a shell with me in winter.

I think I've paid between $50-$100 on closeouts for any of these shells.

BTW, I have a considerable collection of windproof / breathable shells
(with /without hoods) that don't breathe one bit - except through
openings like neck and pit zips.

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

Dot said:

Tom Phillips said:

The Trailrunner said:

asdf wrote:

>any recommendations on a windproof running jacket with a hood.
>Most of the ones that i see dont have hoods. And others aren't windproof.
>I need something in X-large size. The price I'm looking for should be
>somewhere
>below 100$.

snip...

Quoted message said:

BTW, I have a considerable collection of windproof / breathable shells
(with /without hoods) that don't breathe one bit - except through
openings like neck and pit zips.

W.L. Gore ain't gonna like your opine 🙂 Course
I generally agree...

In fairness, they do breath pretty well -- as
long as you're not running or otherwise engaged
in aerobic activity where perspiration exceeds
laminate-pore efficaciousness.

i would not advise such garb. it's a safety issue, trail or roads.
beyond often feeling bulky & clunky....most are restrictive and limit
awareness of your surroundings....adjacent to you and behind you. not
just in vision but also in sound. they all claim "full visibility
hood" with "unhindered peripheral vision" (w/use of drawstrings,
etc..). they don't feel that way in my experience w/'em, human nature
is to put your guard down and most folks i see w/them rarely if ever
use those drawstrings to combat the reduced awareness. and why is is
that none of these companies, not a single one will test and or publish
the measure to which your hearing is diminished & reduced when using
their hoods?

they'll proudly declare all the great materials these jackets
incorporate..(and they do)....their work around strategy to the
diminished vision is the drawstring. Okay, it doesn't feel that way to
me but...fair enough. what about hearing? is hearing unimportant when
running? to what measure do these hoods blunt hearing? do some
research, some probing and you'll learn that is a forbidden statistic,
a topic they'ed rather not acknowledge or address. they know...but it
does not serve their interest to address this topic.

it's a legal issue, product liability. correct me but don't products
that diminish, reduce, or impair hearing usually carry a warning...a
caution of using the device when engaging in recreation? Do the MP3
devices carry this warning? as i recall some do.

if you're a lone runner, remove the hood & go w/a runner's cap. (don't
diminish your sense of awareness around you). if you must blunt your
sense of awareness...run w/another person...
happy trails...

Tom Phillips said:

Dot said:

BTW, I have a considerable collection of windproof / breathable shells
(with /without hoods) that don't breathe one bit - except through
openings like neck and pit zips.

W.L. Gore ain't gonna like your opine 🙂 Course
I generally agree...

In fairness, they do breath pretty well -- as
long as you're not running or otherwise engaged
in aerobic activity where perspiration exceeds
laminate-pore efficaciousness.

Oh, I forgot about my gore-tex jacket (REI Switchback, iirc) - the one I
got the first winter I was running more. Waaaay too heavy for running,
and if you need to peel it, that's well over 1 lb, maybe close to 2 lb,
of dead weight to carry. OTOH, if I were stuck out in some nasty
weather, that would be my shell of choice. It's relatively rigid so
creates a small dead-air frame around me whereas the soft jackets tend
to mat against me.

I know there are some other shell materials that are supposed to breathe
better. I have some of the more "breathable" ones in hoodless shells -
again don't breathe adequately for running. I am aware of some runners
that consider some other materials breathable enough to run in, but
can't remember for sure - maybe Activent or one of its improvements.

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

Tom Phillips said:

In fairness, they do breath pretty well -- as
long as you're not running or otherwise engaged
in aerobic activity where perspiration exceeds
laminate-pore efficaciousness.

I agree, you're gonna be damp in a Precip if you sweat at all, but
that's true with any jacket. But a good base layer will keep most of the
moisture away from you body and for an all around jacket for anything
short of sub zero, if you can only have one, I still recommend the Precip.

--
- The Trailrunner

Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS*

Trails of the Diablo Valley
*Running - Hiking - Nature*
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/6016/

Tom Phillips said:

W.L. Gore ain't gonna like your opine 🙂 Course
I generally agree...

In fairness, they do breath pretty well -- as
long as you're not running or otherwise engaged
in aerobic activity where perspiration exceeds
laminate-pore efficaciousness.

Something I should have added - in all fairness to the companies - is
that they recognize the need for more breathable jackets and are doing
research and trying to develop new weather resistant materials that
breathe for runners - including posting data online. (Supplex seems
pretty good, but haven't seen it in jackets recently.)

Just a couple examples:
http://www.thenorthface.com/na/technologies/technologies-OU27.html
http://www.maldenmills.com/fabrics/weather.php

(note: I'm not a fan of softshell approaches to date, but these links
were convenient. I want my insulation and shell separate.)

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

Dot said:

Tom Phillips said:

W.L. Gore ain't gonna like your opine 🙂 Course
I generally agree...

In fairness, they do breath pretty well -- as
long as you're not running or otherwise engaged
in aerobic activity where perspiration exceeds
laminate-pore efficaciousness.

Something I should have added - in all fairness to the companies - is
that they recognize the need for more breathable jackets and are doing
research and trying to develop new weather resistant materials that
breathe for runners - including posting data online. (Supplex seems
pretty good, but haven't seen it in jackets recently.)

Just a couple examples:
http://www.thenorthface.com/na/technologies/technologies-OU27.html
http://www.maldenmills.com/fabrics/weather.php

(note: I'm not a fan of softshell approaches to date, but these links
were convenient. I want my insulation and shell separate.)

it all depends on the situation and use. I
tend to wear fairly heavy Capaline. It's
fairly windproof and so sort acts like a
soft shell. I can open the front if I need
ventilation. But that's really only for
running in windy weather when the temps are
30s F and lower.

For serious wet+windy+cold weather traditional
layering is going to better that any soft shell
IMO.

that's actually looks very good. thank you for the good suggestion.
However, it doesn't say that the jacket is for running or that it is even
windproof-which is a must for me.
How good is it at protecting you from a really cold wind. I understand that
it may not warm you
but does it let any of the wind through the material? I am talking about sub
20F temperatures.

"The Trailrunner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

asdf said:

any recommendations on a windproof running jacket with a hood.
Most of the ones that i see dont have hoods. And others aren't

windproof.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I need something in X-large size. The price I'm looking for should be
somewhere
below 100$.

Marmot Precip $99 at REI (I got one on sale for $69). Waterproof,
windproof and breathable with a hood and zippered arm vents.

--
- The Trailrunner

Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS*

Trails of the Diablo Valley
*Running - Hiking - Nature*
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/6016/

any idea where i can get the jacket (precip) offline in NYC.

thank you

"The Trailrunner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

asdf said:

any recommendations on a windproof running jacket with a hood.
Most of the ones that i see dont have hoods. And others aren't

windproof.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I need something in X-large size. The price I'm looking for should be
somewhere
below 100$.

Marmot Precip $99 at REI (I got one on sale for $69). Waterproof,
windproof and breathable with a hood and zippered arm vents.

--
- The Trailrunner

Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS*

Trails of the Diablo Valley
*Running - Hiking - Nature*
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/6016/

Tom Phillips said:

it all depends on the situation and use. I
tend to wear fairly heavy Capaline. It's
fairly windproof and so sort acts like a
soft shell. I can open the front if I need
ventilation. But that's really only for
running in windy weather when the temps are
30s F and lower.

I haven't tried Capilene yet although I've looked at it (and the price
tag) several times in stores. I'd always thought it was base layer
stuff, so learn something new every day. 😉 Just noticed they have web
specials on some Capilene - about half price.

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

asdf said:

that's actually looks very good. thank you for the good suggestion.
However, it doesn't say that the jacket is for running or that it is even
windproof-which is a must for me.

They may you work for the windproof information: 😉
http://www.marmot.com/technology/tech/tech_waterproof.php
Toward the bottom under Precip technology, Windproofness = 0 cfm (cu ft
/ min)
They actually have some really nice spec pages there for people who are
serious about what they're buying.

If you're buying something in a store and aren't sure about it being
windproof, just hold a single layer of fabric to your mouth and try
blowing through it. You can't blow through windproof materials. An REI
salesman taught me that trick.

No, it doesn't say that the jacket is for running, but many runners use
it. Across several groups that I'm in, it's probably the most commonly
recommended rain gear for people that are going to be out running for
awhile. It's also windproof.

Quoted message said:

How good is it at protecting you from a really cold wind. I understand that
it may not warm you
but does it let any of the wind through the material? I am talking about sub
20F temperatures.

I'm not sure if I've worn mine in 70mph winds, but I know I've worn it
in about 30mph and can vouch for it being windproof - not just the
material, but I can seal all the openings against my skin - neckline,
wrists, waist. Hood is an excellent design that allows you to seal out
nasty weather. (Many jackets "for runners" frequently have skimpy hoods
that aren't helpful when you need them, which is why I tend toward gear
for assorted outdoor activities. Since I bike, hike, snowshoe, ski, etc
as well as run, I don't get picky about whether it's designed for
runners or not.)

At temps near 20F and below - where I'm sure it's not gonna rain, I tend
to wear my Krushell since the nylon body isn't quite as noisy while
running. But the Precip would actually provide more protection, and with
a wet snow on long run, I'd probably use it.

And when the wind is howling, I can't hear the material above the wind.
The newer versions are supposed to be more breathable and quieter.

FWIW, this summer I started on a run above treeline with about 20+ mph
wind in heavy rain. (gear testing plus expecting a race under these
conditions) I had Precip on top and bottom (full zip pants) and
stayed dry from the rain. I used the downwind pitzip for some
ventilation. I was damp from sweat by the time I got over the top of the
pass and running in the sun for awhile (didn't want to stop running to
peal). But without the Precip, I would've been sopping wet and possibly
hypothermic. (actually, there's a good chance I wouldn't have gotten out
of the car without the Precip, to be completely honest) When I got to a
stopping point, I just pealed the layers, put them on my camelbak and
continued with my run.

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

asdf said:

any idea where i can get the jacket (precip) offline in NYC.

thank you

You might check at outdoor stores like REI. Not sure what NYC has along
these lines.

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that's actually looks very good. thank you for the good suggestion.
However, it doesn't say that the jacket is for running or that it is

even

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

windproof-which is a must for me.

They may you work for the windproof information: 😉
http://www.marmot.com/technology/tech/tech_waterproof.php
Toward the bottom under Precip technology, Windproofness = 0 cfm (cu ft
/ min)

I assume that means that it lets through no air at all. that's great news.

Quoted message said:

They actually have some really nice spec pages there for people who are
serious about what they're buying.

If you're buying something in a store and aren't sure about it being
windproof, just hold a single layer of fabric to your mouth and try
blowing through it. You can't blow through windproof materials. An REI
salesman taught me that trick.

No, it doesn't say that the jacket is for running, but many runners use
it. Across several groups that I'm in, it's probably the most commonly
recommended rain gear for people that are going to be out running for
awhile. It's also windproof.

Quoted message said:

How good is it at protecting you from a really cold wind. I understand

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it may not warm you
but does it let any of the wind through the material? I am talking about

sub

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

20F temperatures.

I'm not sure if I've worn mine in 70mph winds, but I know I've worn it
in about 30mph and can vouch for it being windproof - not just the
material, but I can seal all the openings against my skin - neckline,
wrists, waist. Hood is an excellent design that allows you to seal out

Really glad to hear that. I actually don't care if the body of the jacket
let's cold air
through but really want to protect my face.

Quoted message said:

nasty weather. (Many jackets "for runners" frequently have skimpy hoods
that aren't helpful when you need them, which is why I tend toward gear
for assorted outdoor activities. Since I bike, hike, snowshoe, ski, etc
as well as run, I don't get picky about whether it's designed for
runners or not.

Quoted message said:

You might check at outdoor stores like REI. Not sure what NYC has along
these lines.

paragon sporting goods doesn't have it. neither does modells or sports
authority.
wondering if some of those smaller stores would have it.

Quoted message said:

Dot

asdf said:

but really want to protect my face.

That's a lost cause.

Quoted message said:

Marmot Precip is what I use for water proof.

The Marmot PreCip looks pretty good, but probably overkill and too warm for
running in my area. I've been looking at the Cloudveil Half Moon jacket -
http://tinyurl.com/85n7x. It seems a little more breathable, but probably
less waterproof. Anyone know about the Cloudveil?

--
Phil M.

Dot said:

Tom Phillips said:

it all depends on the situation and use. I
tend to wear fairly heavy Capaline. It's
fairly windproof and so sort acts like a
soft shell. I can open the front if I need
ventilation. But that's really only for
running in windy weather when the temps are
30s F and lower.

I haven't tried Capilene yet although I've looked at it (and the price
tag) several times in stores. I'd always thought it was base layer
stuff, so learn something new every day. 😉 Just noticed they have web
specials on some Capilene - about half price.

Yeah it does cost an arm and leg. I bought it
years ago when patagonia was easier on the wallet.

Mine is actually more like a fleece lined poly
sweater meant as a base layer for more extreme
environs (winter/high altitude) as opposed to
thinner stuff. In summer/lower climes I use it
as a wool sweater substitute.

I use a range of base layer thicknesses but
have no idea what capiline offers today. It's
lasted a long time so does seem to wear well.