Running on Rest Days

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sam said:

If you run, then it is not a "rest" day. I define a rest day as no
activity that is exertional. That includes cutting the grass, hanging
dry wall, etc.

Gee, I wish I could take a real "rest" day 😉

I do some of these activities on recovery days were the run is short
and low intensity.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The risk one runs (no pun intended) is not recovering so that long term
you might suffer if you eliminate more rest days.

But that could be made up during an easy week, if it happened to be the
next week.

For me, I usually refer to them as "non-running" days or "recovery" days,
depending on what I'm actually doing. I've found things work better for me
if I maintain at least light activity (whatever that is) on most days. For
some reason, my feet swell when sitting for long hours at desk, which is
what happens if I'm doing nothing exertional. However, if I maintain at
least some activity, even if 20-30 min of walking or bike riding, the
problem doesn't seem to happen.

Fluid build up--simple gravity. Rest does not mean you cannot get up
and do something. It just means that you are not going to run.

Quoted message said:

As I noted in my other posts, I try to listen to my body as to what I can
handle, and in winter, icy conditions may force a recovery week - or at
least that's the best use of it. I'm more likely to back off in those
conditions if I've had a reasonably satisfying 2-3 wks before that. The
way I'm juggling things now seems to be working better for me than earlier
attempts at schedules. Keep in mind, I usually only run 3 days/wk, but may
have 4 or 5 days of reasonable exertion (run, cross-train, hike, ski,
bike), so there's almost always at least 2 days of negligible to light
activity in a week.

With 4 or 5 days of running a week of the OP, then there's less
flexibility. I tend to run longer if the footing's good since it may not
be tomorrow, rather than add a day. The recovery days work well for me.

Dot

--
"After 26 hours 38 minutes, we accomplished our mission, and the next day
were fortunate to read about our adventure in the sports section of the
local papers rather than the obituaries."
-Dean Karnazes recounting their running of the WS100 trail in winter.

"Sam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"didgerman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Ham String" <ham@spam-blam> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

I have scheduled runs 4-5 days a week, depending on the week, which means
I have 2 or 3 rest days, depending on the week. Often I feel up for a
run on my rest days, and so I run a shorter distance at a slower rate.
Am I risking injury, or am I getting enough rest by running slower and
shorter?

You only gain fitness on rest days, exercise in general wears you down.
Try some harder runs once or twice a week, and if you must, do some sort
of cross training on one or two rest days, swimming perhaps...

Then these are not rest days. Cumulative stress counts even if the mode
is different. Glycogen stores are reduced which might make the next
training session of poor quality.

I don't think you'd have to tax your glycogen stores to manage an easy swim.
Although, the way most runners behave in the pool you could have a
point....
Recovery workouts should take place in the fat burning/easy conversation
zone, otherwise you are not having a recovery day, that's true. But you can
go out for a walk or swim, bike even, just to help your lymphatic system.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

exertional?

Okay, so not really the appropriate word in this context.

How about this: I define as a rest day as a day with no activity that
requires anything past a moderate amount of exertion.

Hmm. No. That won't do either. The first half of the sentence, ending with
"no activity", precludes the second half. Also, the second half is rather
awkward. Can a day require anything? If so, and the Day warrants
consideration, don't allude to it's past (it hasn't got one, yet) lest you
make it cross and end up with a bad day on your hands. Moderate is
undefined. Exertion has not been given any context in terms of resting
versus running.

Carpe Diem,
Surf

"didgerman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

I don't think you'd have to tax your glycogen stores to manage an easy

swim.

Quoted message said:

Although, the way most runners behave in the pool you could have a
point....

How do runners behave in the pool?

"Surf McBrowse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"didgerman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Yg_Vd.645$A01.53@newsfe5-

Quoted message said:

I don't think you'd have to tax your glycogen stores to manage an easy

swim.

Quoted message said:

Although, the way most runners behave in the pool you could have a
point....

How do runners behave in the pool?

Usually frantic attempts to reach the other side with a stroke rate of about
40 per length. Not always I know, but I didn't used to see many runners
taking it easy in the pool...

Sam said:

"Tom Phillips" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sam said:

If you run, then it is not a "rest" day. I define a rest day as no
activity
that is exertional. That includes cutting the grass, hanging dry wall,
etc.

The exertion of running vs. mowing the lawn is
the difference between an Indy 500 race car
and poking around the golf course in a cart.
"Rest" means not running, not sitting on your
behind...

You have not seen my yard! I had a fellow I was coaching who had one
rest day scheduled a week; his runs after his rest day were never good. It
finally dawned on me to ask what he was doing on this rest day:

1. Cutting his lawn (1/4 acre with a push mower)

Well duh...everyone knows you need a Sears Craftsman
lawn tractor, preferably one with an enclosed air
conditioned cab and CD player 😉

Quoted message said:

2. Gardening (a lot of bending and getting up and down)
3. Running around town doing all the errands he did during the week.
and a littany of other things that left him quite tired.

I had him move some of those things to the easier days so that he did get a
rest day. He was not sitting on his behind the entire day, but at least he
was not expending as much energy as he had been.

When I said "not running" I was referring to any
aerobic/anaerobic exercise similar to running, like
power hiking, or pushing a push mower around half the
day 🙂 Cross training might be appropriate, depending,
but generally I consider a rest day to be light activity.
Golf, which I don't consider "exercise," for instance.
Personally I find a different activity conducive to
"rest."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The risk one runs (no pun intended) is not recovering so that long term
you
might suffer if you eliminate more rest days.

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Ham String wrote:
>> I have scheduled runs 4-5 days a week, depending on the week, which
>> means
>> I have 2 or 3 rest days, depending on the week. Often I feel up for a
>> run on my rest days, and so I run a shorter distance at a slower rate.
>> Am I risking injury, or am I getting enough rest by running slower and
>> shorter?
>
> Maybe / maybe not. Only you know the answer as to whether you're
> getting
> enough recovery between runs. Listen to your body.
>
> You may feel fine the day you run on a rest day, and run fine the day
> after that, or you may feel like a slug the next day or legs may hurt,
> depending on your recovery. If it was a bad decision to run on the rest
> day, then you might want to back off on the next run - again, depending
> on
> how you feel. If it worked out well, then remember the conditions
> leading
> up to it.
>
> Your recovery rate may depend on current conditioning (related to
> volume
> /intensity and how long you've been at that volume / intensity), age,
> biomechanics, duration and intensity of your other runs, etc. Consider
> how
> running on a rest day progresses you toward your goals - or whether
> you're
> better served by increasing duration or intensity of one of your other
> runs. Some people run 7 days / wk, but some run or cross-train 5-6
> days/wk. Many, like myself, only run 3 days/wk.
>
> Dot
>
> --
> "After 26 hours 38 minutes, we accomplished our mission, and the next
> day were fortunate to read about our adventure in the sports section of
> the local papers rather than the obituaries."
> -Dean Karnazes recounting their running of the WS100 trail in winter.
>

Dot said:

Tom Phillips wrote

Quoted message said:

Only problem is many have to fit running into
a predetermined schedule, so you have to run
and rest when the time is allowed for.

Usually these extensions during the week are on the order of 10-20 min
so it's not that much of a change. I generally don't plan hard days -
some just end up that way owing to trail conditions or whatever. So I'm
not alternating easy/hard in any schedule. ANd I've had a bunch of
evening meetings most weeks since fall, so I get what I can when I can.

If your legs felt like garbage and you were scheduled for a long run,
would you go ahead and do the full long run? or would you listen to your
body and maybe juggle things around and possibly reduce injury risk? I
think the "correct" answer does depend on a person's training and goals.
A newbie is probably better off backing off since their body hasn't
adapted to stress yet. For an experienced runner, this may be the stress
they are looking for (running on tired legs) in their training. Or it
may be an intro to overtraining or injury for them also.

Since you ask a rhetorical question, not sure I need
to answer. Of course if any one is smart they pay
attention to how they feel+ hopefully know their
personal capabilities, how much they can push/back off.

Quoted message said:

Aside from being new, I've found the snow / ice conditions have a
significant impact on what I can do safely - either because of poor
footing or extra strength needed to slog through mashed potato snow.
Tired muscles are injury prone. There's no way I could run (snowshoes or
not) 2 hr in that early season snow. Even 30 min was hard work for me,
but I got my runs in, although not as long as I would have liked. Hey,
it was strength building 😉 When the footing improved, I got my longer
runs in. I don't think most training schedules are designed for people
that run on snow 6 months of the year 😉 Wasn't it Arthur Newton that
suggested that schedules shouldn't be carved in stone?

Well, I know who Issac Newton was; don't know what
schedule he used though....I haven't particulary
noticed my own tired muscles are injury prone. Usually
injury occurred when I felt energetic and overly strong.
Also, I'm usually less tired after the first 20-30 minutes.

Quoted message said:

The flip side is that it's hard to train for a snowshoe race with no
shoeable snow,

I'll make you feel better. Haven't had any measureable
snow here in over a month. 2nd driest Feb on record.
Course the snowpack is 111% above average statewide
so still O.K. But looking like another dry spring.
OTOH been sun and 50's every day; even on a rest day
you wanna go run.

and all our ss races so far in 2005 have been cancelled

Quoted message said:

(hopefully, this weekend will be ok) 🙁

I heard they moved an AK race (dog sled?) to 30 miles
north of Anchorage where it was colder due to southern
warm temps/lack of snow. Also heard there's a sale
on palm trees in LA, so you might want to stock up 😉

OTOH, I got a leg up on some

Quoted message said:

longer regular runs for summer buildup when we found some firm, but not
icy, snow on the Iditarod Trail (about 45 min from my house). Because my
volume had been down a little before that, I was able to do long runs on
consecutive weekends - something I've never done before, and I didn't
have any negative repercussions. I took adavantage of decent running
conditions. The next weekend it was warm and sunny = soggy snow, which
hopefully isn't specific for anything I have planned 😉 (although it
might be) The flexibility in my schedule allows me to train more
specifically - IF conditions cooperate. If they don't, I get what I call
"experience" runs 😉

I don't believe in fighting with Mother Nature. She always wins 😉

Quoted message said:

AKer's <sigh> are apparently once again the
exception.

Being different is a prerequisite to being Alaskan 🙂

I always knew I shoulda moved there...

"Surf McBrowse" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Hmm. No. That won't do either. The first half of the sentence, ending with
"no activity", precludes the second half. Also, the second half is rather
awkward. Can a day require anything? If so, and the Day warrants
consideration, don't allude to it's past (it hasn't got one, yet) lest you
make it cross and end up with a bad day on your hands. Moderate is
undefined. Exertion has not been given any context in terms of resting
versus running.

Well, today was my rest day, until I read that. Now I'm exhausted. :-)

-- Dan

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How do runners behave in the pool?

Usually frantic attempts to reach the other side with a stroke rate of

about

Quoted message said:

40 per length. Not always I know, but I didn't used to see many runners
taking it easy in the pool...

You're right. I've been swimming regularly for six weeks now. Throughout my
first few attempts I thrashed about like a crocodile being sawed in half by
a great white shark. Bad form. Now I gracefully slice through the water like
a barracuda having a nap. Swam over a kilometer last night. A month ago I
might have drowned.

Surf

"Surf McBrowse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How do runners behave in the pool?

Usually frantic attempts to reach the other side with a stroke rate of

about

Quoted message said:

40 per length. Not always I know, but I didn't used to see many runners
taking it easy in the pool...

You're right. I've been swimming regularly for six weeks now. Throughout
my
first few attempts I thrashed about like a crocodile being sawed in half
by
a great white shark. Bad form. Now I gracefully slice through the water
like
a barracuda having a nap. Swam over a kilometer last night. A month ago I
might have drowned.

Surf

Nice one.

Tom Phillips said:

Sam said:

"Tom Phillips" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sam wrote:

>If you run, then it is not a "rest" day. I define a rest day as no
>activity
>that is exertional. That includes cutting the grass, hanging dry wall,
>etc.

The exertion of running vs. mowing the lawn is
the difference between an Indy 500 race car
and poking around the golf course in a cart.
"Rest" means not running, not sitting on your
behind...

You have not seen my yard! I had a fellow I was coaching who had one
rest day scheduled a week; his runs after his rest day were never good. It
finally dawned on me to ask what he was doing on this rest day:

1. Cutting his lawn (1/4 acre with a push mower)

Well duh...everyone knows you need a Sears Craftsman
lawn tractor, preferably one with an enclosed air
conditioned cab and CD player 😉

Quoted message said:

2. Gardening (a lot of bending and getting up and down)
3. Running around town doing all the errands he did during the week.
and a littany of other things that left him quite tired.

I had him move some of those things to the easier days so that he did get a
rest day. He was not sitting on his behind the entire day, but at least he
was not expending as much energy as he had been.

When I said "not running" I was referring to any
aerobic/anaerobic exercise similar to running, like
power hiking, or pushing a push mower around half the
day 🙂 Cross training might be appropriate, depending,
but generally I consider a rest day to be light activity.
Golf, which I don't consider "exercise," for instance.
Personally I find a different activity conducive to
"rest."

If you spend 4 hours in the hot sun dehydrating, I would argue
that is pretty damaging.
cross training might be active recovery.

Light activity is fine. Walking the dog for instance, tossing a
football with the kids.

Everyone just do whatever you want to do. I am not sure why I care...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>The risk one runs (no pun intended) is not recovering so that long term
>you
>might suffer if you eliminate more rest days.
>
>"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
>news:[email hidden]...
>
>>Ham String wrote:
>>
>>>I have scheduled runs 4-5 days a week, depending on the week, which
>>>means
>>>I have 2 or 3 rest days, depending on the week. Often I feel up for a
>>>run on my rest days, and so I run a shorter distance at a slower rate.
>>>Am I risking injury, or am I getting enough rest by running slower and
>>>shorter?
>>
>>Maybe / maybe not. Only you know the answer as to whether you're
>>getting
>>enough recovery between runs. Listen to your body.
>>
>>You may feel fine the day you run on a rest day, and run fine the day
>>after that, or you may feel like a slug the next day or legs may hurt,
>>depending on your recovery. If it was a bad decision to run on the rest
>>day, then you might want to back off on the next run - again, depending
>>on
>>how you feel. If it worked out well, then remember the conditions
>>leading
>>up to it.
>>
>>Your recovery rate may depend on current conditioning (related to
>>volume
>>/intensity and how long you've been at that volume / intensity), age,
>>biomechanics, duration and intensity of your other runs, etc. Consider
>>how
>>running on a rest day progresses you toward your goals - or whether
>>you're
>>better served by increasing duration or intensity of one of your other
>>runs. Some people run 7 days / wk, but some run or cross-train 5-6
>>days/wk. Many, like myself, only run 3 days/wk.
>>
>>Dot
>>
>>--
>>"After 26 hours 38 minutes, we accomplished our mission, and the next
>>day were fortunate to read about our adventure in the sports section of
>>the local papers rather than the obituaries."
>>-Dean Karnazes recounting their running of the WS100 trail in winter.
>>

Tom Phillips said:

Are you the same Tom Phillips who runs for one the local NYC running clubs
(CPTC) ? Just curious.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Tom Phillips said:

I heard they moved an AK race (dog sled?) to 30 miles
north of Anchorage where it was colder due to southern
warm temps/lack of snow.

Yea, the Iditarod restart got moved to Willow once again. At least they
didn't have to move it to Fairbanks this year like they did 2 years ago.

Here's a link for those that want to follow
http://www.adn.com/iditarod/

And here's a link for the human powered race that started a week ago -
click on results to get to latest. I think there may only be one runner
headed to Nome this year, but a couple bikers.
http://www.alaskaultrasport.com/ITI%20home%20page.html

Also heard there's a sale

Quoted message said:

on palm trees in LA, so you might want to stock up 😉

On Friday, I passed a car lot in Anchorage that had a couple palm trees
(artificial) in it 😉

Dot

--
"After 26 hours 38 minutes, we accomplished our mission, and the next
day were fortunate to read about our adventure in the sports section of
the local papers rather than the obituaries."
-Dean Karnazes recounting their running of the WS100 trail in winter.

Dot wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Tom Phillips said:

I heard they moved an AK race (dog sled?) to 30 miles
north of Anchorage where it was colder due to southern
warm temps/lack of snow.

Yea, the Iditarod restart got moved to Willow once again. At least they
didn't have to move it to Fairbanks this year like they did 2 years ago.

Here's a link for those that want to follow
http://www.adn.com/iditarod/

And here's a link for the human powered race that started a week ago -
click on results to get to latest. I think there may only be one runner
headed to Nome this year, but a couple bikers.
http://www.alaskaultrasport.com/ITI%20home%20page.html

Thanks for the link Dot. Interesting how the Ski record is slower than the
foot record. To me this suggests that the best skiers haven't tried this
race? The skiers hold the record for the short course over runners. Of
course without snow machines to pack the trail it would be far different,
and I would guess the ski participants would have the distinct advantage
over even the bikers.

-Tony

Quoted message said:

Also heard there's a sale

Quoted message said:

on palm trees in LA, so you might want to stock up 😉

On Friday, I passed a car lot in Anchorage that had a couple palm trees
(artificial) in it 😉

Dot

--
"After 26 hours 38 minutes, we accomplished our mission, and the next
day were fortunate to read about our adventure in the sports section of
the local papers rather than the obituaries."
-Dean Karnazes recounting their running of the WS100 trail in winter.

Dot said:

Tom Phillips said:

I heard they moved an AK race (dog sled?) to 30 miles
north of Anchorage where it was colder due to southern
warm temps/lack of snow.

Yea, the Iditarod restart got moved to Willow once again. At least they
didn't have to move it to Fairbanks this year like they did 2 years ago.

Here's a link for those that want to follow
http://www.adn.com/iditarod/

And here's a link for the human powered race that started a week ago -
click on results to get to latest. I think there may only be one runner
headed to Nome this year, but a couple bikers.
http://www.alaskaultrasport.com/ITI%20home%20page.html

Also heard there's a sale

Quoted message said:

on palm trees in LA, so you might want to stock up 😉

On Friday, I passed a car lot in Anchorage that had a couple palm trees
(artificial) in it 😉

Stick a couple of pink flamingos in there and
you might as well be in Florida 😉

Didn't see any palm trees on the web pages but
iditarod trail weather looks a bit warm for
Anchorage and parts north and west. Wonder if
there's any CO entries -- quite a few mushers here,
particularly around Aspen. Course it's colder in
Aspen than in Anchorage 🙂

Tony said:

Dot wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the link Dot. Interesting how the Ski record is slower than the
foot record. To me this suggests that the best skiers haven't tried this
race?

It's all about snow conditions and who actually goes for it. Most years
since I've been following it, there may only be 1 or 2 people go for
Nome, so some divisions don't even try it. The last 2 years may have
only had 1 runner apiece go, and no bikes or skis, irrc. One year I
think there may have been at least 1 from each division. Two years ago
with the really warm year (Fairbanks start), only 1 person, a runner,
went for it and he got ahead of the snow machine because of the slush.

The Su 100 started a week earlier with warm temperatures and sunny
skies, and the bikes and runners struggled. Skiers had fast snow and
took advantage of it. #1 was a recent almost-Olympian, #2 was an
Olympian in early 80s, I think. This year's #2 was 2004's #1. I believe
all skiers finished, but this year overall 32/64 people finished. 12/25
runners and 10/27 bikers finished. The bikers died and had long push.

This year's ITI had cooler temperatures and overcast skies to start. I
think they had much better starting conditions than the Su100, but in
the course of 3-5 days to get to McGrath or several weeks to get to
Nome, they will likely see a change in conditions. Some of thess bikers
use the fat tire bikes - about 3-4 inches, iirc - designed for snow or
sand. The LBS in our town builds these bikes for the racers. He himself
has done the 350.

Quoted message said:

The skiers hold the record for the short course over runners.

This is our Olympians.

Of

Quoted message said:

course without snow machines to pack the trail it would be far different,
and I would guess the ski participants would have the distinct advantage
over even the bikers.

Right. One thing that makes this race possible is that they have snow
machines lead the leaders until McGrath, and I'm not sure about after
that. But the Iditarod starts soon after they get to McGrath, so the
Iditarod trail breakers (snow machines, not dogs 😉 "pave" the way after
that - as long as they can stay in proximity of dogs. The dogs usually
pass them by a long shot, but there's a lot of traffic on the trail.

Dot

--
"After 26 hours 38 minutes, we accomplished our mission, and the next
day were fortunate to read about our adventure in the sports section of
the local papers rather than the obituaries."
-Dean Karnazes recounting their running of the WS100 trail in winter.

Tom Phillips said:

Stick a couple of pink flamingos in there and
you might as well be in Florida 😉

Didn't see any palm trees on the web pages but
iditarod trail weather looks a bit warm for
Anchorage and parts north and west.

If the weather continues the way it is, I hope they have life jackets -
all competitors. We had a major melt event today, at least for the snow.
Hopefully the rivers that the race runs on will stay frozen. Really glad
we had the ss race the day we did since the weather's gotten warmer
since then. There's supposed to be another local event this Sat, and I'm
wondering if they'll be able to have it.

Wonder if

Quoted message said:

there's any CO entries -- quite a few mushers here,
particularly around Aspen. Course it's colder in
Aspen than in Anchorage 🙂

There's a couple
http://www.iditarod.com/mushers/mushers.php

Last year I found adn.com had better stories to follow along, but
iditarod.com is the official web page.

www.ramybrooks.com is another good one since they have their own
commentator on the trail. Roxy Wright, the commentator and his mother,
is a sprint mushing legend in her own right and descended from a long
line of mushers.

Enjoy!

Dot

--
"After 26 hours 38 minutes, we accomplished our mission, and the next
day were fortunate to read about our adventure in the sports section of
the local papers rather than the obituaries."
-Dean Karnazes recounting their running of the WS100 trail in winter.