Cycling Equipment · Public discussion

Sachs 8s Rear derailleurs

Kapers · 2003-10-09T10:47:03+00:00

Hey Folks. I finally broke down and bought a pair of Sachs Ergo brifters (8s) and now I have a problem. I have everything adjusted and aligned agap and the rear shifting is still off. A wee bit too much cable tension and it shifts crisply through the cogs from smallest to mid-way (it's a 8s HG50 13-25 cogset) where it starts to overshift finally jumping 2 cogs to the 25t before the last click. Too little tension and the reverse happens.... have to overshift severely to get out of the smallest cogs (with a bit of ghost shifting and noise), gradually getting better once it reaches the bigger cogs. I should mention the Rder is a 9sp 105 (RD-5500) that used to work very well with my old 8s 105 brifters (ST-1055). I understood that the Sachs Ergo Brifters were made for Sachs by Campagnolo, and that they were made to work with Shimano spaced cogsets instead of Campag spaced cogsets.... So... First, can someone shed some light on whether I can get these to work (I've allmost got them working by running the cable around the fixing bolt at an angle greater than the one provided by the cable groove) using the parts I have? Do I have to change something inside the shifter or go to an older 8sp Rder (shimano, or even Sachs)? Second, How can I tell if they are actually Sachs? The levers say Sachs, the hoods say Campagnolo, could the internals be incorrect? Third, Were there in fact 2 different sets of Sach Ergo made? One for Shimano and one for Sachs derailleurs. I'd appreciare any help. TIA Keith Pears. "The knack lies in learning to throw yourself - at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams.

Started by Kapers · 9 October 2003 · Last activity 11 October 2003 · 8 posts · 1,106 views

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Original section: Cycling Equipment
Published: 9 October 2003
Last activity: 11 October 2003
Original author: Kapers
Posts: 8
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 1,106
Views / 30 days: 0
Topics: Campagnolo Rear derailleurs Shifter cable tension

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Original post
Kapers
Archived post

9 October 2003, 10:47 UTC #1

Hey Folks. I finally broke down and bought a pair of Sachs Ergo brifters (8s) and now I have a
problem. I have everything adjusted and aligned agap and the rear shifting is still off. A wee bit
too much cable tension and it shifts crisply through the cogs from smallest to mid-way (it's a 8s
HG50 13-25 cogset) where it starts to overshift finally jumping 2 cogs to the 25t before the last
click. Too little tension and the reverse happens.... have to overshift severely to get out of the
smallest cogs (with a bit of ghost shifting and noise), gradually getting better once it reaches the
bigger cogs. I should mention the Rder is a 9sp 105 (RD-5500) that used to work very well with my
old 8s 105 brifters (ST-1055). I understood that the Sachs Ergo Brifters were made for Sachs by
Campagnolo, and that they were made to work with Shimano spaced cogsets instead of Campag spaced
cogsets.... So... First, can someone shed some light on whether I can get these to work (I've
allmost got them working by running the cable around the fixing bolt at an angle greater than the
one provided by the cable groove) using the parts I have? Do I have to change something inside the
shifter or go to an older 8sp Rder (shimano, or even Sachs)? Second, How can I tell if they are
actually Sachs? The levers say Sachs, the hoods say Campagnolo, could the internals be incorrect?
Third, Were there in fact 2 different sets of Sach Ergo made? One for Shimano and one for Sachs
derailleurs. I'd appreciare any help. TIA Keith Pears.
"The knack lies in learning to throw yourself
- at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams.

Report
Kapers
Archived post

9 October 2003, 11:14 UTC #2

If this appears twice, sorry. Keith
"kapers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:...
Quoted message said:
Hey Folks. I finally broke down and bought a pair of Sachs Ergo brifters (8s) and now

I
Quoted message said:
have a problem. I have everything adjusted and aligned agap and the rear shifting is still off. A
wee bit too much cable tension and it shifts crisply through the

cogs
Quoted message said:
from smallest to mid-way (it's a 8s HG50 13-25 cogset) where it starts to overshift finally
jumping 2 cogs to the 25t before the last click. Too little tension and the reverse happens....
have to overshift severely

to
Quoted message said:
get out of the smallest cogs (with a bit of ghost shifting and noise), gradually getting
better once it reaches the bigger cogs. I should mention the Rder is a 9sp 105 (RD-5500) that
used to work very well with my old 8s 105 brifters (ST-1055). I understood that the Sachs Ergo
Brifters were

made
Quoted message said:
for Sachs by Campagnolo, and that they were made to work with Shimano

spaced
Quoted message said:
cogsets instead of Campag spaced cogsets.... So... First, can someone shed some light on whether I
can get these to

work
Quoted message said:
(I've allmost got them working by running the cable around the fixing bolt at an angle greater
than the one provided by the cable groove) using the parts I have? Do I have to change something
inside the shifter or go to

an
Quoted message said:
older 8sp Rder (shimano, or even Sachs)? Second, How can I tell if they are actually Sachs? The
levers say Sachs,

the
Quoted message said:
hoods say Campagnolo, could the internals be incorrect? Third, Were there in fact 2 different sets
of Sach Ergo made? One for Shimano and one for Sachs derailleurs. I'd appreciare any help. TIA
Keith Pears.
"The knack lies in learning to throw yourself
- at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams.

Report
Mike S.
Archived post

9 October 2003, 16:17 UTC #3

"kapers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6R7hb.22932$Sg4.2561@edtnps84...
Quoted message said:
Hey Folks. I finally broke down and bought a pair of Sachs Ergo brifters (8s) and now

I
Quoted message said:
have a problem. I have everything adjusted and aligned agap and the rear shifting is still off. A
wee bit too much cable tension and it shifts crisply through the

cogs
Quoted message said:
from smallest to mid-way (it's a 8s HG50 13-25 cogset) where it starts to overshift finally
jumping 2 cogs to the 25t before the last click. Too little tension and the reverse happens....
have to overshift severely

to
Quoted message said:
get out of the smallest cogs (with a bit of ghost shifting and noise), gradually getting
better once it reaches the bigger cogs. I should mention the Rder is a 9sp 105 (RD-5500) that
used to work very well with my old 8s 105 brifters (ST-1055). I understood that the Sachs Ergo
Brifters were

made
Quoted message said:
for Sachs by Campagnolo, and that they were made to work with Shimano

spaced
Quoted message said:
cogsets instead of Campag spaced cogsets.... So... First, can someone shed some light on whether I
can get these to

work
Quoted message said:
(I've allmost got them working by running the cable around the fixing bolt at an angle greater
than the one provided by the cable groove) using the parts I have? Do I have to change something
inside the shifter or go to

an
Quoted message said:
older 8sp Rder (shimano, or even Sachs)? Second, How can I tell if they are actually Sachs? The
levers say Sachs,

the
Quoted message said:
hoods say Campagnolo, could the internals be incorrect? Third, Were there in fact 2 different sets
of Sach Ergo made? One for Shimano and one for Sachs derailleurs. I'd appreciare any help. TIA
Keith Pears.
"The knack lies in learning to throw yourself
- at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams.

When I was running Sachs, I always had a Sachs NS r. der. so everything shifted fine.
Have you tried running the cable to the opposite side of the mounting bolt? Evidently it changes the
cable pull just enough to make things work.
AFAIK, Sachs (Campy) only made shifters with one spacing.
Mike

Report
Dave Mayer
Archived post

10 October 2003, 05:49 UTC #4

Keith: your experience is the same as mine with Sachs Ergopower shifters. Mine came new out
of the box.
I tried everything you tried. No success. However, they worked perfectly with a Sachs New Success RD
and a Campy 8-speed cassette. Bottom line: they pull too much cable for Shimano derailleurs, and too
little for Campagnolo.
I would guess that the Sachs rear derailleurs have mechanical advantage of about 1.55:1 versus
1.67:1 for Shimano, 1.43:1 for old Campy and 1.5:1 for new Campy.
"kapers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6R7hb.22932$Sg4.2561@edtnps84...
Quoted message said:
Hey Folks. I finally broke down and bought a pair of Sachs Ergo brifters (8s) and now

I
Quoted message said:
have a problem. I have everything adjusted and aligned agap and the rear shifting is still off. A
wee bit too much cable tension and it shifts crisply through the

cogs
Quoted message said:
from smallest to mid-way (it's a 8s HG50 13-25 cogset) where it starts to overshift finally
jumping 2 cogs to the 25t before the last click. Too little tension and the reverse happens....
have to overshift severely

to
Quoted message said:
get out of the smallest cogs (with a bit of ghost shifting and noise), gradually getting
better once it reaches the bigger cogs. I should mention the Rder is a 9sp 105 (RD-5500) that
used to work very well with my old 8s 105 brifters (ST-1055). I understood that the Sachs Ergo
Brifters were

made
Quoted message said:
for Sachs by Campagnolo, and that they were made to work with Shimano

spaced
Quoted message said:
cogsets instead of Campag spaced cogsets.... So... First, can someone shed some light on whether I
can get these to

work
Quoted message said:
(I've allmost got them working by running the cable around the fixing bolt at an angle greater
than the one provided by the cable groove) using the parts I have? Do I have to change something
inside the shifter or go to

an
Quoted message said:
older 8sp Rder (shimano, or even Sachs)? Second, How can I tell if they are actually Sachs? The
levers say Sachs,

the
Quoted message said:
hoods say Campagnolo, could the internals be incorrect? Third, Were there in fact 2 different sets
of Sach Ergo made? One for Shimano and one for Sachs derailleurs. I'd appreciare any help. TIA
Keith Pears.
"The knack lies in learning to throw yourself
- at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams.

Report
Kapers
Archived post

10 October 2003, 09:32 UTC #5

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message news:5vfhb.54657$vj2.25851@fed1read06...
Quoted message said:

"kapers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6R7hb.22932$Sg4.2561@edtnps84...
Quoted message said:
Hey Folks. I finally broke down and bought a pair of Sachs Ergo brifters (8s) and

now
Quoted message said:
I
Quoted message said:
have a problem.(snip).
Quoted message said:
When I was running Sachs, I always had a Sachs NS r. der. so everything shifted fine.
Have you tried running the cable to the opposite side of the mounting

bolt?
Quoted message said:
Evidently it changes the cable pull just enough to make things work.
AFAIK, Sachs (Campy) only made shifters with one spacing.
Mike

Hey Mike. You and I had the same thought... just in reverse. I recalled that when the big "S" used
to "improve" their gruppos by adding a cog, the fix used to be to run the cable on the other side of
the bolt, increasing pull-per-click and enabling one to use an old 7sp rder with new 8sp cogs and
shifters (by making the derailleur travel further). That is why I assumed that if my 9sp rder (which
is just a 8sp with narrower pulleys after all) moved too far with the Ergo brifters (effectively,
pulling too much cable per click) that by leaving the cable on the correct side of the pinch bolt,
but angling it past the groove provided, would give me less pull per click (which is what I need).
IOW, the reverse of the old fix and the reverse of your diagnosis Mike. I'm starting to think that
the problem is not the brifters (as many of you have agreed). My guess is that I'm dealing with a
Slant Parallelogram rder when what I need is a regular paralellogram Rder. I cannot believe that a
Campag 8sp cogset was that much wider than a Shimano 8sp cogset. I'm wondering.... are there any
more helpful folks out there that can shed some light on this or should I wait until everyone is
back from Splinterbike and try again then??? Thanks again Mike. Keith Pears.

Report
Mike S.
Archived post

10 October 2003, 09:32 UTC #6

Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Hey Folks.
Quoted message said:
I finally broke down and bought a pair of Sachs Ergo brifters (8s) and

now
Quoted message said:
I
Quoted message said:
have a problem.(snip).
Quoted message said:
When I was running Sachs, I always had a Sachs NS r. der. so everything shifted fine.
Have you tried running the cable to the opposite side of the mounting

bolt?
Quoted message said:
Evidently it changes the cable pull just enough to make things work.
AFAIK, Sachs (Campy) only made shifters with one spacing.
Mike

Hey Mike. You and I had the same thought... just in reverse. I recalled that when

the
Quoted message said:
big "S" used to "improve" their gruppos by adding a cog, the fix used to

be
Quoted message said:
to run the cable on the other side of the bolt, increasing pull-per-click and enabling one to use
an old 7sp rder with new 8sp cogs and shifters (by making the derailleur travel further). That is
why I assumed that if my

9sp
Quoted message said:
rder (which is just a 8sp with narrower pulleys after all) moved too far with the Ergo brifters
(effectively, pulling too much cable per click)

that
Quoted message said:
by leaving the cable on the correct side of the pinch bolt, but angling it past the groove
provided, would give me less pull per click (which is what

I
Quoted message said:
need). IOW, the reverse of the old fix and the reverse of your diagnosis Mike. I'm starting to
think that the problem is not the brifters (as many of you have agreed). My guess is that I'm
dealing with a Slant Parallelogram rder when what I need is a regular paralellogram Rder. I cannot
believe that a Campag 8sp cogset was that much wider than a Shimano 8sp cogset. I'm wondering....
are there any more helpful folks out there that can shed some light on this or should I wait until
everyone is back from

Splinterbike
Quoted message said:
and try again then??? Thanks again Mike. Keith Pears.

If it comes down to it, I have a NS rear derailleur in good shape if you need it. I've been holding
out for a set of brifters, but haven't found too many in my price range yet...
Mike

Report
Rgriffin
Archived post

10 October 2003, 22:47 UTC #7

"kapers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<6R7hb.22932$Sg4.2561@edtnps84>...
Quoted message said:
Hey Folks. I finally broke down and bought a pair of Sachs Ergo brifters (8s) and now I have a
problem. I have everything adjusted and aligned agap and the rear shifting is still off. A wee bit
too much cable tension and it shifts crisply through the cogs from smallest to mid-way (it's a 8s
HG50 13-25 cogset) where it starts to overshift finally jumping 2 cogs to the 25t before the last
click. Too little tension and the reverse happens.... have to overshift severely to get out of the
smallest cogs (with a bit of ghost shifting and noise), gradually getting better once it reaches
the bigger cogs. I should mention the Rder is a 9sp 105 (RD-5500) that used to work very well with
my old 8s 105 brifters (ST-1055). I understood that the Sachs Ergo Brifters were made for Sachs by
Campagnolo, and that they were made to work with Shimano spaced cogsets instead of Campag spaced
cogsets.... So... First, can someone shed some light on whether I can get these to work (I've
allmost got them working by running the cable around the fixing bolt at an angle greater than the
one provided by the cable groove) using the parts I have? Do I have to change something inside the
shifter or go to an older 8sp Rder (shimano, or even Sachs)? Second, How can I tell if they are
actually Sachs? The levers say Sachs, the hoods say Campagnolo, could the internals be incorrect?
Third, Were there in fact 2 different sets of Sach Ergo made? One for Shimano and one for Sachs
derailleurs. I'd appreciare any help. TIA Keith Pears.
"The knack lies in learning to throw yourself
- at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams.
I have had success using a 7spd shimano cassette and adding an additional cog and spacer to either
end of the stack to make 8. Shifts fine with the sachs brifters and either 9spd DA or New Success
rear mech.

Report
Kapers
Archived post

11 October 2003, 07:46 UTC #8

Hey Rgriffen, Thanks for the good idea. I think that may be the way I will go if my latest plan
fails. Much appreciated Keith Pears.
"RGriffin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"kapers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<6R7hb.22932$Sg4.2561@edtnps84>...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Hey Folks. I finally broke down and bought a pair of Sachs Ergo brifters (8s) and

now I
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
have a problem.(snip).
Quoted message said:
I have had success using a 7spd shimano cassette and adding an additional cog and spacer to either
end of the stack to make 8. Shifts fine with the sachs brifters and either 9spd DA or New Success
rear mech.

Report

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