Safe to lengthen a chain?

email hidden said:

I cut a new PC59 chain one link too short. Is it safe to add that
link back on?

Thanks.

Use a second Powerlink

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary

Kinky Cowboy said:

email hidden said:

I cut a new PC59 chain one link too short. Is it safe to add that
link back on?

Thanks.

Use a second Powerlink

??? Inner and outer?

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)

Lou Holtman said:

Kinky Cowboy said:

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 10:51:11 -0700, "bw2"wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I cut a new PC59 chain one link too short. Is it safe to add that
link back on?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Thanks.

Quoted message said:

Use a second Powerlink

??? Inner and outer?

Some of my bikes have chains with three (3) Powerlinks with no ill
effects.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Quoted post said:

I cut a new PC59 chain one link too short. Is it safe to add that
link back on?

Thanks.

No but you can use another snap link.

Quoted post said:

I cut a new PC59 chain one link too short. Is it safe to add that
link back on?

Thanks.

To be absolutely safe use a snap link or powerlink. That being said, I
have reconnected odd lengths of chain together to get to the correct
length. Those bits of chain were "carefully" delinked to begin with,
meaning the connecting pin was never pushed out all the way through.
When reconnecting the chain links be very careful that the pins are
pushed back flush with the side plates. Once I did a two week tour of
northern Italy with a PC59 chain that was originally too short for my
triple setup. I used a Campy 10sp (2002) chain with 5 links that I
attached to the PC59 to get the proper length. I used that chain for
about 5000km. Never had a problem. Oh, by the way, if you decide to
try this it's a good idea to bring along those snap links or a chain
tool just in case.

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 06:19:03 -0700, Kenny <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted post said:

I cut a new PC59 chain one link too short. Is it safe to add that
link back on?

Thanks.

To be absolutely safe use a snap link or powerlink.

Retro oriented question: Why is this true with "modern" chains? Do
they peen the heads larger ?

If using SRAM chains, at what point in the line does this become an
issue - pc48? 58?

still me who? said:

Kenny who? said:

bw2 said:

I cut a new PC59 chain one link too short. Is it safe to add that
link back on?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Thanks.

Quoted message said:

To be absolutely safe use a snap link or powerlink.

Retro oriented question: Why is this true with "modern" chains? Do
they peen the heads larger ?

If using SRAM chains, at what point in the line does this become an
issue - pc48? 58?

I have thousands of miles on 7/8 speed Shimano HG chains that had the
pin pushed out just enough to break the chain, then reattached with no
problem. However, I was not able to even get a 9-speed Shimano chain
back together as an emergency repair (for someone else).

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Tom Sherman said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I cut a new PC59 chain one link too short. Is it safe to add
> that link back on?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

To be absolutely safe use a snap link or PowerLink.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Retro oriented question: Why is this true with "modern" chains? Do
they peen the heads larger?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If using SRAM chains, at what point in the line does this become an
issue - pc48? 58?

Quoted message said:

I have thousands of miles on 7/8 speed Shimano HG chains that had
the pin pushed out just enough to break the chain, then reattached
with no problem. However, I was not able to even get a 9-speed
Shimano chain back together as an emergency repair (for someone
else).

As I mentioned here once, I used a PowerLink when installing a new
pc48 chain and only noticed that the chain would skip on the 13t if I
pushed hard. That was an exciting experiment because the chain
skipped exactly when the PowerLink was one pitch from engaging the
skipping sprocket. Being clean and new, it compressed from chain
inertia and disengaged allowing the chain to fall off as well. I went
back to the spot, picked up the two halves of the link lying in the
road, and reinstalled the chain, to finish my ride to work.

This never occurred again but then it couldn't. Once a chain is
dirty, it has grit between the plates leaving insufficient space to
compress laterally and disengage. I discovered this when I tried to
take the chain off in the field, which made me decided to skip the
entire concept, the pc48 working just fine with a re-inserted pin as
Tom described.

PowerLinks take much power to disengage on a used (dirty) chain. I
found that using pliers diagonally, end-to-end of the link, compresses
it in both directions enough to open it. That is, if you need to open
the chain in the field, as one does if a stick damages the derailleur,
a CPR-9 chain tool is the way to do it. You probably cannot get a
PowerLink open without tools.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

You probably cannot get a PowerLink open without tools.

Jobst Brandt

You can, but it takes a multitude of four letter words strung together
with rage. The Connex power however, is easy to operate by fingers.

Chris

Chris Nelson said:

PowerLinks take much power to disengage on a used (dirty) chain. I
found that using pliers diagonally, end-to-end of the link,
compresses it in both directions enough to open it. That is, if you
need to open the chain in the field, as one does if a stick damages
the derailleur, a CPR-9 chain tool is the way to do it. You
probably cannot get a PowerLink open without tools.

Quoted message said:

You can, but it takes a multitude of four letter words strung
together with rage. The Connex power however, is easy to operate by
fingers.

The Connex link is no different from the PowerLink in that it must be
compressed laterally to disengage. What makes you think that a chain
in similar condition to the one that doesn't freely release a
PowerLink will do so for a Connex?

Jobst Brandt

Chris Nelson said:

Quoted message said:

PowerLinks take much power to disengage on a used (dirty) chain. I
found that using pliers diagonally, end-to-end of the link,
compresses it in both directions enough to open it. That is, if
you need to open the chain in the field, as one does if a stick
damages the derailleur, a CPR-9 chain tool is the way to do it.
You probably cannot get a PowerLink open without tools.

Quoted message said:

You can, but it takes a multitude of four letter words strung
together with rage. The Connex power however, is easy to operate by
fingers.

The Connex link is no different from the PowerLink in that it must be
compressed laterally to disengage. What makes you think that a chain
in similar condition to the one that doesn't freely release a
PowerLink will do so for a Connex?

Jobst Brandt

email hidden said:

PowerLinks take much power to disengage on a used (dirty) chain. I
found that using pliers diagonally, end-to-end of the link, compresses
it in both directions enough to open it. That is, if you need to open
the chain in the field, as one does if a stick damages the derailleur,
a CPR-9 chain tool is the way to do it. You probably cannot get a
PowerLink open without tools.

I've had the same experience with 8-speed PowerLinks. I run some kind
of SRAM 8-speed chain, probably the pc48, on my snow bike and opening
the PowerLink is a nightmare. The 9 speed PowerLinks are a different
animal though. They open very easily without tools even when the chain
is dirty. I don't know what makes the difference, but it's pretty
dramatic.

Quoted message said:

Chris Nelson said:

Quoted message said:

PowerLinks take much power to disengage on a used (dirty) chain. I
found that using pliers diagonally, end-to-end of the link,
compresses it in both directions enough to open it. That is, if
you need to open the chain in the field, as one does if a stick
damages the derailleur, a CPR-9 chain tool is the way to do it.
You probably cannot get a PowerLink open without tools.

You can, but it takes a multitude of four letter words strung
together with rage. The Connex power however, is easy to operate by
fingers.

The Connex link is no different from the PowerLink in that it must be
compressed laterally to disengage. What makes you think that a chain
in similar condition to the one that doesn't freely release a
PowerLink will do so for a Connex?

Jobst Brandt

No lateral compression required.

See: http://www.connexchain.com/

Click on Products->Connectors and one of the three Connex link links.
There is an animation on how it goes together. Removal goes in
reverse.

Chris

Steve Gravrock said:

Quoted message said:

PowerLinks take much power to disengage on a used (dirty) chain. I
found that using pliers diagonally, end-to-end of the link,
compresses it in both directions enough to open it. That is, if
you need to open the chain in the field, as one does if a stick
damages the derailleur, a CPR-9 chain tool is the way to do it.
You probably cannot get a PowerLink open without tools.

Quoted message said:

I've had the same experience with 8-speed PowerLinks. I run some
kind of SRAM 8-speed chain, probably the pc48, on my snow bike and
opening the PowerLink is a nightmare. The 9 speed PowerLinks are a
different animal though. They open very easily without tools even
when the chain is dirty. I don't know what makes the difference, but
it's pretty dramatic.

The 8sp PowerLink has a stepped recess in the 'hole' plate and to
disengage the pins, the 'hole' plate must be pressed inward the depth
of the tiny ridge that fits in the pin groove and retains the pins.
If you have a close-up view of that link similar to the one at:

http://www.speedgoat.com/product.asp?part=38807&cat=80&brand=55

or:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/chains.html

the reason for easier separation should be apparent. I Don't have one
and would need to visit the local bicycle shop to investigate.

Jobst Brandt

Chris Nelson said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> PowerLinks take much power to disengage on a used (dirty) chain.
> I found that using pliers diagonally, end-to-end of the link,
> compresses it in both directions enough to open it. That is, if
> you need to open the chain in the field, as one does if a stick
> damages the derailleur, a CPR-9 chain tool is the way to do it.
> You probably cannot get a PowerLink open without tools.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You can, but it takes a multitude of four letter words strung
together with rage. The Connex power however, is easy to operate
by fingers.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The Connex link is no different from the PowerLink in that it must
be compressed laterally to disengage. What makes you think that a
chain in similar condition to the one that doesn't freely release a
PowerLink will do so for a Connex?

Quoted message said:

No lateral compression required.

Quoted message said:

See: http://www.connexchain.com/

Quoted message said:

Click on Products->Connectors and one of the three Connex link
links. There is an animation on how it goes together. Removal goes
in reverse.

Not exactly. Lateral compression is required to slide the pin out of
engagement. The step and re-entrant profile is apparent in the
picture. What is simpler is that the two halves of the link are
identical, but the method of retention is the same as PowerLink. The
design makes use of the lateral angle that these chains require to
have a cross-over chain line. When the chain is straight, that little
clearance is enough to raise the pis out of the 'lock' slot and into
the release hole, which on the Connex is around the corner as it must
be for this design.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

Chris Nelson said:

Quoted message said:

>> PowerLinks take much power to disengage on a used (dirty) chain.
>> I found that using pliers diagonally, end-to-end of the link,
>> compresses it in both directions enough to open it. That is, if
>> you need to open the chain in the field, as one does if a stick
>> damages the derailleur, a CPR-9 chain tool is the way to do it.
>> You probably cannot get a PowerLink open without tools.
> You can, but it takes a multitude of four letter words strung
> together with rage. The Connex power however, is easy to operate
> by fingers.
The Connex link is no different from the PowerLink in that it must
be compressed laterally to disengage. What makes you think that a
chain in similar condition to the one that doesn't freely release a
PowerLink will do so for a Connex?

No lateral compression required.
See:http://www.connexchain.com/
Click on Products->Connectors and one of the three Connex link
links. There is an animation on how it goes together. Removal goes
in reverse.

Not exactly. Lateral compression is required to slide the pin out of
engagement. The step and re-entrant profile is apparent in the
picture. What is simpler is that the two halves of the link are
identical, but the method of retention is the same as PowerLink. The
design makes use of the lateral angle that these chains require to
have a cross-over chain line. When the chain is straight, that little
clearance is enough to raise the pis out of the 'lock' slot and into
the release hole, which on the Connex is around the corner as it must
be for this design.

Jobst Brandt- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Absolute nonsense. I have one in my hand right now and I can remove
without any lateral compression. Zero-nada-none. The ONLY action is to
move the pins closer together, with the constraint being the 90 degree
angle to the rest of the chain as depicted in the animation.

Chris

Chris Nelson said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>> PowerLinks take much power to disengage on a used (dirty)
>>> chain. I found that using pliers diagonally, end-to-end of the
>>> link, compresses it in both directions enough to open it. That
>>> is, if you need to open the chain in the field, as one does if
>>> a stick damages the derailleur, a CPR-9 chain tool is the way
>>> to do it. You probably cannot get a PowerLink open without
>>> tools. >>>>> You can, but it takes a multitude of four letter
>>> words strung >>>>> together with rage. The Connex power
>>> however, is easy to operate >>>>> by fingers.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> The Connex link is no different from the PowerLink in that it
> must be compressed laterally to disengage. What makes you think
> that a chain in similar condition to the one that doesn't freely
> release a PowerLink will do so for a Connex?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No lateral compression required. See:http://www.connexchain.com/
Click on Products->Connectors and one of the three Connex link
links. There is an animation on how it goes together. Removal
goes in reverse.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Not exactly. Lateral compression is required to slide the pin out
of engagement. The step and re-entrant profile is apparent in the
picture. What is simpler is that the two halves of the link are
identical, but the method of retention is the same as PowerLink.
The design makes use of the lateral angle that these chains require
to have a cross-over chain line. When the chain is straight, that
little clearance is enough to raise the pis out of the 'lock' slot
and into the release hole, which on the Connex is around the corner
as it must be for this design.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

What is missing?

Quoted message said:

Absolute nonsense. I have one in my hand right now and I can remove
without any lateral compression. Zero-nada-none. The ONLY action is
to move the pins closer together, with the constraint being the 90
degree angle to the rest of the chain as depicted in the animation.

What is not visible in the video, is that the slots in the pins have
reliefs that allow sliding out when turned sideways. I assume that is
why your assessment is correct. Not having such a link I looked at
the picture which shows that the pin is blocked similarly to the
PowerLink when straight ahead. That it is undercut on the sides is
not visible.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

Chris Nelson said:

Quoted message said:

>>>> PowerLinks take much power to disengage on a used (dirty)
>>>> chain. I found that using pliers diagonally, end-to-end of the
>>>> link, compresses it in both directions enough to open it. That
>>>> is, if you need to open the chain in the field, as one does if
>>>> a stick damages the derailleur, a CPR-9 chain tool is the way
>>>> to do it. You probably cannot get a PowerLink open without
>>>> tools. >>>>> You can, but it takes a multitude of four letter
>>>> words strung >>>>> together with rage. The Connex power
>>>> however, is easy to operate >>>>> by fingers.
>> The Connex link is no different from the PowerLink in that it
>> must be compressed laterally to disengage. What makes you think
>> that a chain in similar condition to the one that doesn't freely
>> release a PowerLink will do so for a Connex?
> No lateral compression required. See:http://www.connexchain.com/
> Click on Products->Connectors and one of the three Connex link
> links. There is an animation on how it goes together. Removal
> goes in reverse.
Not exactly. Lateral compression is required to slide the pin out
of engagement. The step and re-entrant profile is apparent in the
picture. What is simpler is that the two halves of the link are
identical, but the method of retention is the same as PowerLink.
The design makes use of the lateral angle that these chains require
to have a cross-over chain line. When the chain is straight, that
little clearance is enough to raise the pis out of the 'lock' slot
and into the release hole, which on the Connex is around the corner
as it must be for this design.
- Show quoted text -

What is missing?

Quoted message said:

Absolute nonsense. I have one in my hand right now and I can remove
without any lateral compression. Zero-nada-none. The ONLY action is
to move the pins closer together, with the constraint being the 90
degree angle to the rest of the chain as depicted in the animation.

What is not visible in the video, is that the slots in the pins have
reliefs that allow sliding out when turned sideways. I assume that is
why your assessment is correct. Not having such a link I looked at
the picture which shows that the pin is blocked similarly to the
PowerLink when straight ahead. That it is undercut on the sides is
not visible.

Jobst Brandt- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually the pins are completely round. The safety comes from
oversized links that collide with adjacent outer links when applying
removal action in a parallel alignment.

Chris

Chris Nelson said:

Actually the pins are completely round. The safety comes from
oversized links that collide with adjacent outer links when applying
removal action in a parallel alignment.

Chris

Well, that argument aside... is it safe for me to lengthen or shorten
PC48 chains the old fashioned way with a chain pin tool ?