SamE = fat and happy?

Quoted message said:

help me be less of a raving [censored]>

You're looking for an impossible dream.

Dally said:

I started taking SamE about two weeks ago. My hope for it was to reduce
some sleep disturbances and "mood enhancement", i.e., help me be less of
a raving [censored] under pressure.

It's working. My insomnia is much better (ignore that I'm posting this
at midnight) and I've been practically jolly lately. The problem is, my
jolliness has taken the form of eating an extra cookie (be of good
cheer, have some fruit cake) and I've slacked off a bit on my workouts.
I meant to squat today but said "aw heck" and came home.

Aw heck?

Is this the SamE talking? Does it affect others this way, turning them
into declawed pussycats? It's nice to be cheerful. But I want to be
cheerful AND cut.

Anyone else have experience with this?

Yes. You need to stack it with the right stuff. Email me.

JMW said:

Dally said:

I started taking SamE about two weeks ago. My hope for it was to reduce
some sleep disturbances and "mood enhancement", i.e., help me be less of
a raving [censored] under pressure.

It's working. My insomnia is much better (ignore that I'm posting this
at midnight) and I've been practically jolly lately. The problem is, my
jolliness has taken the form of eating an extra cookie (be of good
cheer, have some fruit cake) and I've slacked off a bit on my workouts.
I meant to squat today but said "aw heck" and came home.

Aw heck?

Is this the SamE talking? Does it affect others this way, turning them
into declawed pussycats? It's nice to be cheerful. But I want to be
cheerful AND cut.

Anyone else have experience with this?

Yes. You need to stack it with the right stuff. Email me.

Dally, let me know if his response is simply a copy and paste of SAMe
info found on the Web. Or not. Meh. Here's some interesting reading,
if you're so inclined:

http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/sad_0231.shtml
http://www.ahrq.gov/clinic/epcsums/samesum.htm
http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.same.html
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/sameart.html

--
Curt
http://curtjames.com/

Curt James said:

JMW said:

Dally said:

I started taking SamE about two weeks ago. My hope for it was to reduce
some sleep disturbances and "mood enhancement", i.e., help me be less of
a raving [censored] under pressure.

It's working. My insomnia is much better (ignore that I'm posting this
at midnight) and I've been practically jolly lately. The problem is, my
jolliness has taken the form of eating an extra cookie (be of good
cheer, have some fruit cake) and I've slacked off a bit on my workouts.
I meant to squat today but said "aw heck" and came home.

Aw heck?

Is this the SamE talking? Does it affect others this way, turning them
into declawed pussycats? It's nice to be cheerful. But I want to be
cheerful AND cut.

Anyone else have experience with this?

Yes. You need to stack it with the right stuff. Email me.

Dally, let me know if his response is simply a copy and paste of SAMe
info found on the Web. Or not. Meh. Here's some interesting reading,
if you're so inclined:

http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/sad_0231.shtml
http://www.ahrq.gov/clinic/epcsums/samesum.htm
http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.same.html
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/sameart.html

Or ask Cohen if I know what I'm talking about.

JMW said:

Or ask Cohen if I know what I'm talking about.

Can you post the summary here? I know that SAMe needs to be taken with
B vitamins to protect from the increase of homocysteine. Anything
else?

JMW said:

Or ask Cohen if I know what I'm talking about.

Why? What're you holding over Cohen's head? You've got dirt on Om.
C'mon, what's Cohen gone and done? He mentioned the FBI and the DOJ.
Poor [censored].

HEY COHEN, EITHER DOJ OR FBI GOT A DEPARTMENT OF MISSING PERSONS? HOW
ABOUT A DEPARTMENT OF MISSING PERSONALITIES??? WILLIAMS NEEDS HELP!!!

--

DZ said:

JMW said:

Or ask Cohen if I know what I'm talking about.

Can you post the summary here?

I prefer not to do so. I'll email it if you're interested. I recall
you saying in the past that you weren't interested in a stack that
acted as a stimulant.

Quoted message said:

Or ask Cohen if I know what I'm talking about.>

He told me you were a buttknob.

In article <[email hidden]>,

JMW said:

Dally said:

I started taking SamE about two weeks ago. My hope for it was to reduce
some sleep disturbances and "mood enhancement", i.e., help me be less of
a raving [censored] under pressure.

It's working. My insomnia is much better (ignore that I'm posting this
at midnight) and I've been practically jolly lately. The problem is, my
jolliness has taken the form of eating an extra cookie (be of good
cheer, have some fruit cake) and I've slacked off a bit on my workouts.
I meant to squat today but said "aw heck" and came home.

Aw heck?

Is this the SamE talking? Does it affect others this way, turning them
into declawed pussycats? It's nice to be cheerful. But I want to be
cheerful AND cut.

Anyone else have experience with this?

Yes. You need to stack it with the right stuff.

Cocaine?

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

In article <[email hidden]>,

DZ said:

JMW said:

Or ask Cohen if I know what I'm talking about.

Can you post the summary here? I know that SAMe needs to be taken with
B vitamins to protect from the increase of homocysteine. Anything
else?

I didn't know SAMe raised homocysteine. Is it not also a methyl
donor(?), which in theory, should lower homocysteine.

Giulidori P, Galli-Kienle M, Catto E, Stramentinoli G.
Transmethylation, transsulfuration, and aminopropylation reactions of S-
adenosyl-L-methionine in vivo. J Biol Chem 1984;259:4205-11

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

WillBrink said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

DZ said:

JMW said:

Or ask Cohen if I know what I'm talking about.

Can you post the summary here? I know that SAMe needs to be taken with
B vitamins to protect from the increase of homocysteine. Anything
else?

I didn't know SAMe raised homocysteine. Is it not also a methyl
donor(?), which in theory, should lower homocysteine.

Giulidori P, Galli-Kienle M, Catto E, Stramentinoli G.
Transmethylation, transsulfuration, and aminopropylation reactions of S-
adenosyl-L-methionine in vivo. J Biol Chem 1984;259:4205-11

No elevation of homocysteine in fifteen test subjects at 1600mg/day of
SAMe.

Goren JL, Stoll AL, Damico KE, Sarmiento IA, Cohen BM. Bioavailability
and lack of toxicity of S-adenosyl-L-methionine (SAMe) in humans.
Pharmacotherapy. 2004 Nov;24(11):1501-7.

That's way more than I recommend, but like I said, I consider the SAMe
to be part of a synergistic mix. You may not remember it, but I
discussed this a little bit when we met for dinner in Cambridge.

In article <[email hidden]>,

JMW said:

WillBrink said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

DZ said:

JMW <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Or ask Cohen if I know what I'm talking about.

Can you post the summary here? I know that SAMe needs to be taken with
B vitamins to protect from the increase of homocysteine. Anything
else?

I didn't know SAMe raised homocysteine. Is it not also a methyl
donor(?), which in theory, should lower homocysteine.

Giulidori P, Galli-Kienle M, Catto E, Stramentinoli G.
Transmethylation, transsulfuration, and aminopropylation reactions of S-
adenosyl-L-methionine in vivo. J Biol Chem 1984;259:4205-11

No elevation of homocysteine in fifteen test subjects at 1600mg/day of
SAMe.

As a methyl donor, I would have expected to see a drop in homocysteine
as you do with other methyl donors.

Quoted message said:

Goren JL, Stoll AL, Damico KE, Sarmiento IA, Cohen BM. Bioavailability
and lack of toxicity of S-adenosyl-L-methionine (SAMe) in humans.
Pharmacotherapy. 2004 Nov;24(11):1501-7.

That's way more than I recommend, but like I said, I consider the SAMe
to be part of a synergistic mix. You may not remember it, but I
discussed this a little bit when we met for dinner in Cambridge.

Hmm, I don't recall that conversation. Must have been too much wine!

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

"JMW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DZ said:

JMW said:

Or ask Cohen if I know what I'm talking about.

Can you post the summary here?

I prefer not to do so. I'll email it if you're interested. I recall
you saying in the past that you weren't interested in a stack that
acted as a stimulant.

I am interested in this information also.

Please e-mail me with the particulars.

Thank you.

Lee

WillBrink said:

JMW said:

WillBrink said:

DZ wrote:
> Can you post the summary here? I know that SAMe needs to be taken
> with B vitamins to protect from the increase of
> homocysteine. Anything else?

Quoted message said:

I didn't know SAMe raised homocysteine. Is it not also a methyl
donor(?), which in theory, should lower homocysteine.

Giulidori P, Galli-Kienle M, Catto E, Stramentinoli G.
Transmethylation, transsulfuration, and aminopropylation
reactions of S- adenosyl-L-methionine in vivo. J Biol Chem
1984;259:4205-11

No elevation of homocysteine in fifteen test subjects at 1600mg/day of
SAMe.

As a methyl donor, I would have expected to see a drop in homocysteine
as you do with other methyl donors.

The effect can be opposite if they are a part of the methionine cycle
(methionine -> SAMe -> SAH <-> homocysteine -> back to
methionine). For example, it would make sense that methionine, which
is also a methyl donor, would raise homocysteine. But those methyl
donors that speed up re-methylation of homocysteine back to methionine
can reduce its concentration.

So, I have some vague interest in SAMe but I'm undecided on pros and
cons. There is some evidence that methionine reduces lifespan.

DZ said:

JMW said:

Or ask Cohen if I know what I'm talking about.

Can you post the summary here? I know that SAMe needs to be taken
with B vitamins to protect from the increase of
homocysteine. Anything else?

If you can't post the summary here, then I would be interested in the
information that you have. The email address that I use for USENET is
valid.

Thanks,
Jason

In article <[email hidden]>,

DZ said:

WillBrink said:

JMW said:

WillBrink wrote:
> DZ wrote:
>> Can you post the summary here? I know that SAMe needs to be taken
>> with B vitamins to protect from the increase of
>> homocysteine. Anything else?

>I didn't know SAMe raised homocysteine. Is it not also a methyl
>donor(?), which in theory, should lower homocysteine.
>
> Giulidori P, Galli-Kienle M, Catto E, Stramentinoli G.
> Transmethylation, transsulfuration, and aminopropylation
> reactions of S- adenosyl-L-methionine in vivo. J Biol Chem
> 1984;259:4205-11

No elevation of homocysteine in fifteen test subjects at 1600mg/day of
SAMe.

As a methyl donor, I would have expected to see a drop in homocysteine
as you do with other methyl donors.

The effect can be opposite if they are a part of the methionine cycle
(methionine -> SAMe -> SAH <-> homocysteine -> back to
methionine). For example, it would make sense that methionine, which
is also a methyl donor, would raise homocysteine. But those methyl
donors that speed up re-methylation of homocysteine back to methionine
can reduce its concentration.

As John pointed out, it does not appear to increase homocysteine. I was
under the impression it lowered it, but perhaps it has no effects either
way. Have not looked into it much.

Quoted message said:

So, I have some vague interest in SAMe but I'm undecided on pros and
cons. There is some evidence that methionine reduces lifespan.

Are there any SAMe life span studies in animals perhaps?

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

"WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

DZ said:

WillBrink said:

JMW <[email hidden]> wrote:
> WillBrink wrote:
> > DZ wrote:
>>> Can you post the summary here? I know that SAMe needs to be taken
>>> with B vitamins to protect from the increase of
>>> homocysteine. Anything else?
>
>>I didn't know SAMe raised homocysteine. Is it not also a methyl
>>donor(?), which in theory, should lower homocysteine.
>>
>> Giulidori P, Galli-Kienle M, Catto E, Stramentinoli G.
>> Transmethylation, transsulfuration, and aminopropylation
>> reactions of S- adenosyl-L-methionine in vivo. J Biol Chem
>> 1984;259:4205-11
>
> No elevation of homocysteine in fifteen test subjects at 1600mg/day of
> SAMe.

As a methyl donor, I would have expected to see a drop in homocysteine
as you do with other methyl donors.

The effect can be opposite if they are a part of the methionine cycle
(methionine -> SAMe -> SAH <-> homocysteine -> back to
methionine). For example, it would make sense that methionine, which
is also a methyl donor, would raise homocysteine. But those methyl
donors that speed up re-methylation of homocysteine back to methionine
can reduce its concentration.

As John pointed out, it does not appear to increase homocysteine. I was
under the impression it lowered it, but perhaps it has no effects either
way. Have not looked into it much.

Quoted message said:

So, I have some vague interest in SAMe but I'm undecided on pros and
cons. There is some evidence that methionine reduces lifespan.

Are there any SAMe life span studies in animals perhaps?

Allow me to add my cheap Jew comment at this point: SAMe is freakin'
expensive!!

David

David Cohen said:

Allow me to add my cheap Jew comment at this point: SAMe is freakin'
expensive!!

But it does have a half-decent and enduring stimulant effect in
combination with some other natural substrates and xenobiotics, correct?

David Cohen said:

"WillBrink" wrote

Quoted message said:

DZ said:

WillBrink wrote:
> JMW <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> WillBrink wrote:
>> > DZ wrote:
>>>> Can you post the summary here? I know that SAMe needs to be taken
>>>> with B vitamins to protect from the increase of
>>>> homocysteine. Anything else?
>>
>>>I didn't know SAMe raised homocysteine. Is it not also a methyl
>>>donor(?), which in theory, should lower homocysteine.
>>
>> No elevation of homocysteine in fifteen test subjects at
>> 1600mg/day of SAMe.
>> Giulidori P, Galli-Kienle M, Catto E, Stramentinoli G.
>> Transmethylation, transsulfuration, and aminopropylation
>> reactions of S- adenosyl-L-methionine in vivo. J Biol Chem
>> 1984;259:4205-11
>
> As a methyl donor, I would have expected to see a drop in homocysteine
> as you do with other methyl donors.

The effect can be opposite if they are a part of the methionine cycle
(methionine -> SAMe -> SAH <-> homocysteine -> back to
methionine). For example, it would make sense that methionine, which
is also a methyl donor, would raise homocysteine. But those methyl
donors that speed up re-methylation of homocysteine back to methionine
can reduce its concentration.

As John pointed out, it does not appear to increase homocysteine. I was
under the impression it lowered it, but perhaps it has no effects either
way. Have not looked into it much.

There was actually some increase in that study, measured at both week
2 and week 4 during the experiment. They say that it wasn't
statistically significant (baseline: 6.93 +- 1.52; week 2: 7.58 +-
2.10; week 4: 7.29 +- 1.91).

As they report, the difference week 2 vs. baseline has the p-value of
0.05; and week 4 vs. baseline has the p-value of 0.115. They probably
thought that because of the 2 comparisons made here, the 0.05 level
needs to be 2 times more stringent or so. But this is not the case,
because they're testing the same hypothesis. If we're interested in
the overall effect, baseline vs. supplementation, we can in fact
combine p1=0.05 and p2=0.115 values. Here is a handy formula that me
and Lev derived. It's a reduction from a more general case that we
published :-)

Denote w=p1*p2. Then the overall "significance" is
p12 = w*(1-ln(w)) = 0.035.

In this case, p12 is smaller than either p1 or p2. That is, there is a
statistically significant increase in homocysteine levels. Of course,
the magnitude of the increase might be too small to be of any
practical importance.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So, I have some vague interest in SAMe but I'm undecided on pros and
cons. There is some evidence that methionine reduces lifespan.

Are there any SAMe life span studies in animals perhaps?

Allow me to add my cheap Jew comment at this point: SAMe is freakin'
expensive!!

Certainly, putting rats on calorie restriction is a lot cheaper then
giving them extra anything!