Schlumpf technique?

joemarshall said:

...uphills on my Schlumpf (150mm cranks) seem like so much hard work,
significantly more so than on the coker (110mm cranks). Is there a
knack to it? Given the crank difference, I should have slightly more
leverage on the Schlumpf, but it just seems so so much harder work, I
even had to get off on one steep bit today.

Once you get used to riding the Schlumpf, does it start taking less
effort, it currently seems like twice as much effort, even when riding
it smoothly, without the weird wobble thing it does if you stop
spinning well.

It certainly takes less effort as you get used to it. For example, one
member of my club can ride an ultimate wheel till the cows come home,
but I'm exhausted on it after 200m. He's simply got this perfect
technique, and I don't. Similarly, you'll find the Schlumpf easier with
a bit more practice. I've ridden mine about 750 miles, but when I
finally got hub#2 back from Switzerland, it took me a few weeks to feel
comfortable on it. Now I barely notice, and sometimes I have to check
which gear I'm in.

Quoted message said:

Also, what technique do you use to change gear? I can change up okay,
but can't yet change down. Ways I can think of doing it are:
1) Take foot off, kick the changer, put foot back on.
2) Kick the changer with your ankle with your toes still on the pedal
(this is what I do to change up).
3) Sort of rub past the button with your shoe somehow.

I use #2 and #3. #1 is a bad idea.
With #3, you have to have the pedal in the just-right place or you'll
miss, wheras with #2, you have to move your foot into a slightly
different position (for me, it involves pigeon-toeing my left foot).
Then as the pedal rolls into position, your ankle rubs the button --
but you have to sort of lean into the rub with your foot. By the way,
with the #3 move, it's actually possible to swish the back of your shoe
over towards the button at the right moment rather than having to rub
the button with your shoe. I use a different technique with each
button. To upshift, I use #3, and I 'kick' the button with the back of
my shoe. I can do this at up to 7 mph. With the downshift, I always use
#2 and can do this at almost the same speed.

Quoted message said:

Do you stillstand/ride slowly to change, or do it while riding fast?
What pedal position do you shift at?

I never do it at a stillstand -- not a good idea. Slowly isn't too good
either...it often defeats the purpose.

Quoted message said:

I have a feeling it'd be easier to shift if I put short cranks on it, as
my ankle only just kicks the right place with the 150s, but that's not
really the point is it.

My cranks are 127s and are NOT the curved kind. I find shifting pretty
easy now with the updated hub.

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joemarshall said:

Also, what technique do you use to change gear? I can change up okay,
but can't yet change down. Ways I can think of doing it are:
1) Take foot off, kick the changer, put foot back on.
2) Kick the changer with your ankle with your toes still on the pedal
(this is what I do to change up).
3) Sort of rub past the button with your shoe somehow.

Do you stillstand/ride slowly to change, or do it while riding fast?
What pedal position do you shift at?

I've only ridden other peoples' Schlumpfs and not for a great deal so
bear that in mind... My experience is the same as yours in that shifting
down is harder work. I've always used the same technique for shifting up
and down - ride sufficiently slowly that I can click my ruby red heels
against the changer. I have to ride slowly because otherwise I can't get
the control to click my heel. I think the crank is out front and about
horizontal.

I did wonder about sort of rubbing the button with my foot, but was
worried that it wouldn't be sufficiently solid a change.

Cheers,

Roger

joemarshall said:

At the moment, I can ride fine on the flat, but uphills on my Schlumpf
(150mm cranks) seem like so much hard work, significantly more so than
on the coker (110mm cranks).

But a Schlumpf 29er geared to 1.5x is a virtual 43.5" wheel. Even
allowing for the slightly longer cranks, it's still a considerably
higher gear than a coker with 110s.
Anyway, I struggle up steep hills on my 26" with 150s, so stop moaning
:p

Rob

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rob.northcott said:

But a Schlumpf 29er geared to 1.5x is a virtual 43.5" wheel. Even
allowing for the slightly longer cranks, it's still a considerably
higher gear than a coker with 110s.
Anyway, I struggle up steep hills on my 26" with 150s, so stop moaning
:p

Rob

The cranks are 1.36 times the size, the wheel is 1.26 times the size.
Shouldn't I have a lower gear on the Schlumpf?

Joe

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joemarshall said:

Anyone got any tips for techniques to use when riding the Schlumpf in
high gear? At the moment, I can ride fine on the flat, but uphills on
my Schlumpf (150mm cranks) seem like so much hard work, significantly
more so than on the coker (110mm cranks). Is there a knack to it? Given
the crank difference, I should have slightly more leverage on the
Schlumpf, but it just seems so so much harder work, I even had to get
off on one steep bit today.

It is a higher gear than a Coker, so it is going to take more force to
move it. But, if you are having trouble on the uphills when geared up,
then it's time to switch to 1:1 mode.

joemarshall said:

Also, what technique do you use to change gear? I can change up okay,
but can't yet change down. Ways I can think of doing it are:
1) Take foot off, kick the changer, put foot back on.
2) Kick the changer with your ankle with your toes still on the pedal
(this is what I do to change up).
3) Sort of rub past the button with your shoe somehow.

Do you stillstand/ride slowly to change, or do it while riding fast?
What pedal position do you shift at?

To upshift, I do it at any comfortable speed. To downshift, I slow down
before shifting. Down-shifting is harder, and I think it's the result
of the modification made to the hub to fix the defect that was in it
before. The hub will not shift if there is a lot of pressure on it. You
need to essentially go from forward pressure to backward pressure
briefly to get it to disengage and shift.

I use technique 2 and 3 combined. I have grippy plastic pedals on my
schlumpf which are plenty grippy for riding, but allows my to move my
foot on the pedal to hit the button with my ankle/heal/back of foot as
I pedal. I just twist my foot inward to rub against the crank. Make
sure you wear high tops to protect your ankle as it will provide you
more area to contact the button.

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Gilby said:

...To downshift, I slow down before shifting. Down-shifting is harder,
and I think it's the result of the modification made to the hub to fix
the defect that was in it before. The hub will not shift if there is a
lot of pressure on it. You need to essentially go from forward pressure
to backward pressure briefly to get it to disengage and shift.

That seems reasonable, and I had heard about the modification, but I
have not noticed what you're talking about. I can shift w/o changing
pressure on the pedals. I did find it harder to downshift until I got
my ankle involved because trying to hit the button with my shoe was
much harder due to certain other factors mainly having to do with
timing.

Quoted message said:

... Make sure you wear high tops to protect your ankle as it will
provide you more area to contact the button.

That's a great idea. I've found that it depends on the way the button
is set up, tho. I always downshift with my ankle, and it doesn't hurt
to do so. But the one time I tried upshifting with my other ankle? It
killed.

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Gilby said:

It is a higher gear than a Coker, so it is going to take more force to
move it. But, if you are having trouble on the uphills when geared up,
then it's time to switch to 1:1 mode.

Although given the cranks I think I'm in a slightly lower gear overall?
They're easy hills to ride up on the coker, so I reckon I should be
able to ride up them no problems once I'm riding efficiently.
Presumably like David says, this being much harder work than the coker
thing will wear off as I get used to what the Schlumpf does in terms of
forces through the frame and stuff.

Cheers guys for the shifting advice, I'd noticed what Gilby says about
shifting down requiring you to let off pressure a bit, I've had a few
tries where the button has sort of pushed in a bit then popped back.

I think it isn't helped by my being able to stillstand well only in one
position, which is the position for the shift up, I guess I'm more in
control of that foot than the other.

Any tips for idling in high gear? It does my head in and seems to
require loads of effort, I can only do a sort of really big idle, the
gears seem to make the frame angle feel all wrong.

Joe

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joemarshall said:

The cranks are 1.36 times the size, the wheel is 1.26 times the size.
Shouldn't I have a lower gear on the Schlumpf?

Joe

Err... yes, I seem to have worked it out wrongly before... muppet :o
I make the wheel 1.21 x the size though (43.5/36), but that just makes
you even more right.

Perhaps the wheel size (i.e. cadence at a given speed) makes more of a
difference than actual mechanical advantage.

Rob

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joemarshall said:

Any tips for idling in high gear? It does my head in and seems to
require loads of effort, I can only do a sort of really big idle, the
gears seem to make the frame angle feel all wrong.

My best advice for idling in high gear is: Don't. What's the point?
Also, it's nigh on impossible. So downshift before you get to that big
stop and then idle in low. Or hold onto something. Those are my
techniques.

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Here's a thought based on experience riding a standard 29er v's riding a
Coker.

I find a coker is easier to keep going up hill than a 29er, I think
this is because the extra weight of the wheel helps to keep it rolling
during the dead spots in the pedal cycle (top and bottom), the lighter
weight of the 29er makes it easier to speed up and slow down, but also
means that the 29er requires more rider input keep it moving through
the dead spot whilst climbing. The coker wheel acts like a flywheel and
smooths out the riders power delivery.

The wheel of a schlumpf in high gear will have the same angular
momentum (at a given speed) as a standard 29er wheel, and and hence the
same level of flywheel effect.

For a given crank/effective wheel radius I would expect that a Coker
rider would find it more difficult to ride a high gear Schlumpf up a
hill than a Coker up the same hill because the rider will need to
deliver power over a much greater proportion of the pedal stroke than
they would on the Coker.

A Coker rider can get away with fairly rough delivery of power while
climbing, only really pushing on the pedals between about 2 and 4
o'clock and relying on the momentum of the wheel to carry the next
pedal round to 2 o'clock. This technique doesn't work on lighter
wheels, they tend to slow down too quickly to carry the pedal round far
enough, so the rider needs to improve their technique, say applying
power from 1 to 5 o'clock or even more, to keep the uni moving up the
hill.

Just my $0.02

Paul

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rob.northcott said:

But a Schlumpf 29er geared to 1.5x is a virtual 43.5" wheel.

Not to be a pest, but for those interested in the maths, I was told
that the tire is so fat that it's more like 29.5" or even bigger. Can
someone substantiate this for me? I'm tape-measure challenged. And then
there's the fact that the rotation is more like 1.55:1, adding 3% extra
'virtual' length of each rotation. So the short version is that someone
told me the rotation is more like 45" or even a bit larger. Anyway,
that wheel is pretty hard to move compared with a Coker, but in time,
it'll feel pretty normal.

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David_Stone said:

Not to be a pest, but for those interested in the maths, I was told
that the tire is so fat that it's more like 29.5" or even bigger. Can
someone substantiate this for me? I'm tape-measure challenged. And then
there's the fact that the rotation is more like 1.55:1, adding 3% extra
'virtual' length of each rotation. So the short version is that someone
told me the rotation is more like 45" or even a bit larger.

The true diameter is 29.2" on my setup. Multiplied by 17/11, that
makes the virtual diameter 45.1". So David is very right.