rec.sport.unicycling · Public discussion

Schlumpf vs. Livewire

Started by Brian MacKenzie · · Last activity · 11 posts · 347 views

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rec.sport.unicycling
Published
25 August 2005
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25 August 2005
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Brian MacKenzie
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  1. I would like to know all the arguments between these two different types
    of unicycles, and which, ultimately, is a better piece of equip. to
    own.

    Here are the issues I can see dealing with....

    The live wire seems more user serviceable (open gears to get at, change
    ratios, etc.. (can these gears (for size) be altered easily?

    The Schlumpf has shift on the fly...is this really anything to care
    about? can you shift on the fly (providing you were in a high gear) in
    order to negogiate something (like a hill) that 'just came up?

    Is the live wire (even though there is no shifting on the fly) better
    because it has a bigger range of gearing? can you guy one livewire and
    4 gears and put in the gear (and I presume chainlength) as you see fit?

    --
    Brian MacKenzie - Bobby Fischer is not here.

    'TRAINING WHEEL NOT REQUIRED DVD - NOW AVAILABLE!'
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    'ps. just watched TWNR, the UW36 on the stairs broke my brain' - markf

    'Unicycle Product Reviews'
    (http://londonunicyclingclub.ca/unicycleReviews.aspx)
    *122* reviews on *79* products, never make an uninformed purchase again!

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  2. Brian MacKenzie said:

    *The Schlumpf has shift on the fly...is this really anything to care
    about? can you shift on the fly (providing you were in a high gear)
    in order to negogiate something (like a hill) that 'just came up?*

    Yes, being able to shift when needed is very nice. I usually shift down
    to idle at a stop or any time I need more control.

    --
    Gilby - Unicyclist.com Webmaster
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  3. Brian MacKenzie said:

    *I would like to know all the arguments between these two different
    types of unicycles, and which, ultimately, is a better piece of equip.
    to own.

    Here are the issues I can see dealing with....

    The live wire seems more user serviceable (open gears to get at,
    change ratios, etc.. (can these gears (for size) be altered easily?

    The Schlumpf has shift on the fly...is this really anything to care
    about? can you shift on the fly (providing you were in a high gear)
    in order to negogiate something (like a hill) that 'just came up?

    Is the live wire (even though there is no shifting on the fly) better
    because it has a bigger range of gearing? can you guy one livewire
    and 4 gears and put in the gear (and I presume chainlength) as you see
    fit? *

    Hi Brian --

    The Outta Phaze isn't finished yet, though it is showing good progress
    and should be really good. Some basic design specs that we are trying
    to meet, mixed together with some obvious characteristics are:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The gearing is external, not internal. All parts will be


    serviceable, yet exposed to the elements like a normal bicycle.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    There is no shift-on-the-fly. The gearing is fixed, like a


    fixed-gear bicycle. It may be possible in the future to flip the wheel
    around to change gears, but that is not a current design goal.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Hopefully it will be possible to change gears/chains in the field.


    Ideally, it would be possible to change gears about as easily as it is
    currently possible to change square taper cranks in the field.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The drive train should be hugely lighter than the internally-geared


    unicycle drive train. I'm guessing about 50-75% lighter, although I
    don't know the exact weights of any of the units.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The Outta Phaze gear selection will be very selectable. According to


    current design, a person selects the range and then can change between 4
    different gear-inches within that range, from less than 1:1 to close to
    4:1.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The hub width will be conducive to larger unicycle wheel sizes and


    will be suitable for use with brakes.

    For longer trips, like choosing crank length, one would choose the
    gearing for the day and try to stick with it. However, there will also
    be at least 4 crank length choices, so that adds even more
    flexibility.

    For attempting to set speed or distance records, one might start at a
    lower gearing, and build up to higher gears and higher speeds. The neat
    thing about this system is that one can actually determine a target
    speed and cadence and scientifically gear the unicycle for that
    target.

    Hopefully, the final decision will be the rider's needs. In both (all)
    cases, the goal is to choose between very high quality equipment.

    --
    U-Turn - Cool water for the flame

    Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
    'LiveWire Unicycles' (http://www.livewireunicycles.com)
    'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
    (http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albup39)
    '29er Tire Study' (http://u-turn.unicyclist.com/29erTireStudy/)
    'New York Unicycle Club' (http://www.newyorkunicycle.com)
    -- Dave Stockton
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  4. I had the opportunity to test ride 3 different Schlumpf unicycles this
    month in Switzerland: 20, 24 and 29. Shifting on the fly (say as a hill
    comes up) is certainly possible. I could shift each of the unicycles
    either up or down, on the fly. On the 20" model, Beau was able to shift
    every half rotation which was pretty cool to watch.

    Compared to previous geared up unicycles I've ridden, the gear slop on
    the Schlumpf is much less - barely noticable really. Of course the Outta
    Phaze has none though. I sure would love to try one of these for a
    while. I would also really like to try a 36" Schlumpf, just to see how
    it feels riding a 54" wheel equivalent, but with an air tire.

    ---Nathan

    --
    nathan - BIG rides: Muni & Coker
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  5. U-Turn said:

    *The Outta Phaze gear selection will be very selectable. According to
    current design, a person selects the range and then can change between
    4 different gear-inches within that range, from less than 1:1 to close
    to 4:1. *

    Hi Dave,

    Could you please explain this part further, or point me to somewhere if
    it is already documented?

    Is the option available for a Schlumpf hub (and would the schlumpf
    frame be required) in a stockton build?

    --
    Brian MacKenzie - Bobby Fischer is not here.

    'TRAINING WHEEL NOT REQUIRED DVD - NOW AVAILABLE!'
    (HTTP://WWW.LBMMULTIMEDIA.COM)

    'ps. just watched TWNR, the UW36 on the stairs broke my brain' - markf

    'Unicycle Product Reviews'
    (http://londonunicyclingclub.ca/unicycleReviews.aspx)
    *122* reviews on *79* products, never make an uninformed purchase again!

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  6. Brian MacKenzie said:

    *Hi Dave,

    Could you please explain this part further, or point me to somewhere
    if it is already documented?

    Is the option available for a Schlumpf hub (and would the schlumpf
    frame be required) in a stockton build? *


    Hmmm... it's not yet documented anywhere, really, Brian. The concept
    is this:

    There are two sets of identical gears in the drive train. This
    constraint allows the chains to be of the same length, which greatly
    simplifies design and reliability. One set of the gears is fixed
    (welded in), while the other set is changeable (bolted in).

    Those two sets of gears have different ranges. One set, the welded set,
    ranges from about 12 teeth to about 22 teeth, in steps of one. The
    other set, the variable set, ranges from about 20 teeth to about 26
    teeth, in steps of two, for a total of 4 different sizes.

    The welded set is essentially integral to the wheel. That may change,
    but for now that is the case. So the customer/rider chooses the number
    of teeth for that set upon purchase, based upon his/her application.
    The second set is the changeable set. Probably additional gears and
    chains will be an optional kit so people don't have to buy a huge number
    of gears all at once.

    A typical set might be 20 teeth on the fixed set, and 20-26 teeth on the
    changeable set. For a 29er with a 30" wheel diameter, that choice gives
    gear-inch numbers (effective wheel diameters) of 30" (1.00),
    36.3"(1.21), 43.2"(1.44) and 50.7" (1.69). For a cadence of 100 cps,
    that results in speeds of 8.9 mph, 10.8 mph, 12.9 mph, and 15.1 mph. So
    overall, the range is 30"- 51" for that setup.

    Since the fixed set is available in steps of one from 22 teeth to 12
    teeth, one can finely tune the range from (24.8" - 41.9"😉 to (83.3" -
    140.8"😉. Every range has four steps in it, corresponding to the 4
    changeable gear sizes. We move the range up and down by selecting the
    fixed set.

    This approach makes the best possible use of commercially available
    parts and limits the need for parts that are specially-constructed for
    this unicycle.

    I have a spreadsheet that you can look at, but it is not yet ready for
    public use, especially posting on the Internet. For most people, it
    would raise more questions than it would answer (in its present
    configuration), and confuse the issues.

    The actual ranges may differ slightly from this, but the above numbers
    should be close.

    As for LiveWire using a Schlumpf hub... certainly I hope to be able to
    do that in the future. My current belief is that the hub is too narrow
    for the 36" wheel, and marginal for 29", especially for brake use. I
    understand that the company may widen the hub in the future, and I look
    forward to that change.

    --
    U-Turn - Cool water for the flame

    Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
    'LiveWire Unicycles' (http://www.livewireunicycles.com)
    'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
    (http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albup39)
    '29er Tire Study' (http://u-turn.unicyclist.com/29erTireStudy/)
    'New York Unicycle Club' (http://www.newyorkunicycle.com)
    -- Dave Stockton
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  7. U-Turn said:

    *the hub is too narrow for the 36" wheel*

    pfffffffffft. is there another size of wheel?

    Thanks for that info Dave!

    --
    Brian MacKenzie - Bobby Fischer is not here.

    'TRAINING WHEEL NOT REQUIRED DVD - NOW AVAILABLE!'
    (HTTP://WWW.LBMMULTIMEDIA.COM)

    'ps. just watched TWNR, the UW36 on the stairs broke my brain' - markf

    'Unicycle Product Reviews'
    (http://londonunicyclingclub.ca/unicycleReviews.aspx)
    *122* reviews on *79* products, never make an uninformed purchase again!

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  8. The Outta Phaze is the one to go with if you're thinking of trying to
    break the hour record or some other time trial style record. It has
    flexibility in the gear ranges so you can get it geared to suit your
    riding preferences and your goals for the ride.

    I've been able to observe and even ride the Purple Phaze. It's a good
    design. No play when built using quality components. I have confidence
    that U-Turn will do the Outta Phaze even better.

    The neat thing about the Outta Phaze style gearing is that you'll be
    able to gear it so you reach your planned cruising speed at a
    comfortable cadence of say 90 RPM rather than spinning like a hamster at
    something like 150+ RPM like you have to do with a lower gear or a
    standard uni. Pedaling at around 90 RPM is more efficient. So instead
    of being forced to spin fast to go fast you can choose the gearing so
    you can pedal at your favorite cadence at the speed you with to go.

    --
    john_childs - Guinness Mojo

    john_childs (att) hotmail (dott) com
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  9. How about a 36" Harper? I got a little present from U-Turn while you
    were in the Alps.

    nathan said:

    * I would also really like to try a 36" Schlumpf, just to see how it
    feels riding a 54" wheel equivalent, but with an air tire.

    ---Nathan *

    --
    mscalisi - Burn the man!!!

    James Potter for President 2008
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  10. Mike - spill the beans! How fast is it??!

    --
    nathan - BIG rides: Muni & Coker
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  11. Well, I must confess, I havn't put many miles on it yet, and I currently
    don't have a computer.

    ...but it's FAST, and much less skittish than it's 26" incarnation. It's
    a different experience because once you get up to speed, it gets more
    challenging to put enough pressure on the petals to accelerate further.
    It's fun cruising at 12-15mph without spinning like mad. It's also very
    heavy.

    nathan said:

    *Mike - spill the beans! How fast is it??! *

    --
    mscalisi - Burn the man!!!

    James Potter for President 2008
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