seeking gearhead advice

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>... <snip>

Quoted message said:

That is correct. Shimano /do/ make a front derailleur - RD-440 IIRC - which is designed to work
with Rabidfire shifters *and* "road" size chainrings - big ring of the order of 50-54 teeth.
However, if you use a non-index front shifter - such as Gripshifts or barcons, then you're fine. I
have an Ultegra on the Baron and a 105 on the Speedmachine, both operated by SRAM twist-grips.

Shimano's part number is FD-A440, I think. There's some good info on Sheldon Brown's Harris Cyclery
pages: sheldonbrown.comderailers.htmlOpen ↗

The OP's problem was the capacity of his existing front derailleur. As others have said, you can
exceed Shimano's recommendations by quite a bit with very little degradation in shifting. My wife's
Tour Easy has 24/42/52 chainrings and a 11-34 cassette in the rear. It shifts fine, despite
exceeding several of Shimano's limits.

FWIW: if you're looking for a wider tire for your 24" wheels, Terry is now selling a 32mm wide
"Tellus TT": terrybicycles.com2400000.lassoOpen ↗ "New! Terry Tellus TT 24" x 1-1/4"
(32-520) - $40"

Jeff

Robert Stevahn said:

(John Foltz) said:

An Ultegra front derailleur should be able to handle at least 24T and more likely 26T difference,
so you could conceivably go down to a 26T inner chainring.

Will the Ultegra crankset accept a standard 74mm inner ring, or am I going to need a new crankset?

Yes you can get a 26T with a 74mm BCD that will bolt right on your current crank, in place of the
current 30T ring.
--

John Foltz --- O _ Baron --- _O _ V-Rex 24 --- _\\/\-%)
_________(_)`=()___________________(_)= (_)_____

[email hidden] (cbb) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I believe the Shaimano Road and MTB shifters and derailers are interchangeable and the derailers
also work with SRAM Rocket shifters. I currently have Shaimano 105 derailers shifted by SRAM
Rocket shifters (originally designed to work with Shaimano MTB groups). I'm not as confident about
the front derailer but an XT rear derailer should work with STI and give you a larger chain wrap.
However I don't think it is necessary as I just saw a note that Zach was using Shaimano Ultrega
derailers with a 26-39-52 and 12-26. With such an arrangement you may need to avoid the extreme
gear combinations as it will put the derailer at it limit but it should work. Craig

If you are referring to the post I wrote about the gearing on my Aero under the FSA carbon fibre
crankset thread I wrote that I have it set up with Dura-Ace derailers running a 24-39-53 chainrings
and a 12-27 cassette. However on some other bikes I'm running 105 or Ultegra front derailers with
24-42-52 cranksets and 11-34 cassettes shifted by SRAM
9. or Shimano Deore LX, Deore XT or XTR rear derailers. All shift well and all have Third Eye Chain
Watchers to prevent chain drop when downshifting fast to the 24T inner rings. I can use all but
the smallest few rear cogs when on the 24T inner ring before the chain becomes slack but the
lowest gear on the middle ring is considerably lower than the highest usable gear on the inner
ring. I always set them up so the big chainring to big rear cog combination is usable.

Zach Kaplan

Quoted message said:

An Ultegra front derailleur should be able to handle at least 24T and more likely 26T difference,
so you could conceivably go down to a 26T inner chainring. That would give you a 25 inch low - not
terribly low but enough to climb most grades.

I have a Vision R40. I have already made the changes you require, so lets just trade. As a service
to you, I mean. :-)

I have 26" a wheel in the rear. I started with a 52-42-30 in front, with a 11-32 cluster. I think my
setup is Shimano Tiagra, with rapidfires. I successfully ran a 24T granny inner chain ring with that
setup. I had no trouble shifting. But I seldom needed to as I stayed on the middle chain ring most
of the time. Being more effected by gravity than most, I changed to a 46-36-22 w/155mm cranks.
Happiness and Love abounds.

bruce <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I'm already running an 11-34 cassette, with 34-48-62 chainrings, and in the mountains (where I do
most of my riding), I regularly run out of gears at BOTH ends of the range.

Bruce,

Looks like you're already pretty well maxed-out on chainrings. I envy your 62T. For even more range,
consider adding a 3-speed hub. This will necessitate mounting a third shifter somewhere (like maybe
an old British-style finger-pull shifter) but it'll give you like 81 speeds. The middle gear is 1:1
(with little or no parasitic loss) which you can use most of the time. Then the other two gears,
combined with what you've got should provide stump-pulling power going up and Porsche-passing speed
(if you dare) on the way down ... BONZAI!!!!!!

Bill Anton 2001 Vision R-40 SWB, OSS Lubbock, TX, USA

Quoted message said:

Bruce Jamieson

cbb said:

I've seen a number of people that replaced thier inner rings with a 26 tooth ring on standard
road components. This should lower you low gear pretty nicely. Also a 12-27 cassette would
increase the low range with a slight loss in fine control. Craig

[email hidden] (Robert Stevahn) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I ride a Vision Saber with the 24" wheels.

Here's what I have now:

52-42-30 front (all Ultegra) 11-23 9 speed rear (XTR derailer)

With my 24" wheels, that gives me a range of 31-113 gear inches.

I'm very happy with the 11-23 cassette. Nice fine control.

I'm pretty happy with the 113" high gear. I don't want it any smaller if I can help it.

I'm not happy with the 31" low gear. I want something smaller for the steeper hills.

What are my best options? What are the trade-offs?

Thanks in advance,

-- Robert

"Bill Anton" skrev

Quoted message said:

BONZAI!!!!!!

Hmmm.. isn't it either bonsai or banzai? ;o)

M.

(Jeff Wills) said:

FWIW: if you're looking for a wider tire for your 24" wheels, Terry is now selling a 32mm wide
"Tellus TT": terrybicycles.com2400000.lassoOpen ↗ "New! Terry Tellus TT 24" x 1-1/4"
(32-520) - $40"

Wider? Naw, just ordered the kevlar (25-520). :-)

-- Robert

Cletus Lee said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

As long as we're on the subject of front derailers (more or less), what front derailer has the
largest capacity? I'm considering trying a quad chainring, and I'm wondering how wide a range I
can get without resorting to building my own front derailer cage.

I'm already running an 11-34 cassette, with 34-48-62 chainrings, and in the mountains (where I do
most of my riding), I regularly run out of gears at BOTH ends of the range.

AFAIK no triple derailleur is rated for more than 22T As I and others have noted, you can exceed
that 22T by about 4 more teeth. In your set-up you are probably passed the limit at
28T. Since I do not have a drive tire size, I can only guess at the gear inch range for your bike.
You should find a range of 18-120 g.i. adequate for just about anything you would

Quoted message said:

time to learn to spin faster on both ends.

OK, the details I omitted: RANS Rocket; 20" tire. I may have misremembered the chainring sizes;
maybe it was 38-??-62. The hill I'm trying to tame is Appalachian Gap between Starksboro and
Waitsfield, Vt.

I knew you would suggest spinning faster... However, I've hit 51 mph on the downhill side of
aforementioned mountain. According to Sheldon Brown's gear calculator, I'm spinning 160 rpm to hit
that speed. Just how fast do you expect me to spin ? (Ya, I know-- how fast do I expect to go? I
dunno. Faster :-)

(OK, I didn't really spin all the way to 51mph. I gave up at 45mph. The remaining 6mph was coasting)

Going up that hill, I'm pushing so hard on the steep sections, spinning faster just means I'm
mashing faster. I could solve this, sort of, by switching to 28-40-52 rings, but I can't bring
myself to give up that big 62T ring. I use it too frequently. Maybe I'll experiment with using only
the small and middle rings for a while and see if I can tolerate the loss of my tallest gears.

Bruce

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Cletus Lee said:

You should find a range of 18-120 g.i. adequate for just about anything you would

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

time to learn to spin faster on both ends.

OK, the details I omitted: RANS Rocket; 20" tire. I may have misremembered the chainring sizes;
maybe it was 38-??-62. The hill I'm trying to tame is Appalachian Gap between Starksboro and
Waitsfield, Vt.

I knew you would suggest spinning faster... However, I've hit 51 mph on the downhill side of
aforementioned mountain. According to Sheldon Brown's gear calculator, I'm spinning 160 rpm to hit
that speed. Just how fast do you expect me to spin ? (Ya, I know-- how fast do I expect to go? I
dunno. Faster :-)

(OK, I didn't really spin all the way to 51mph. I gave up at 45mph. The remaining 6mph was
coasting)

Well How fast _do_ you want to go? The pucker factor kicks in for me at about 45mph. If you
want to crank faster than 51 under power It looks like your next option is adding a Rolhoff to
what you have.

Quoted message said:

Going up that hill, I'm pushing so hard on the steep sections, spinning faster just means I'm
mashing faster. I could solve this, sort of, by switching to 28-40-52 rings, but I can't
bring myself to give up that big 62T ring. I use it too frequently. Maybe I'll experiment
with using only the small and middle rings for a while and see if I can tolerate the loss of
my tallest gears.

I don't think you should be 'mashing' anything. Bad for the knees. If you are not in your smallest
chain ring and largest cog, and spinning like mad, don't worry yet. If you are in thoses gears, the
object on steep grades is to make it to the top on two wheels not necessarily fast but to the top.
You will not fall over at 2.5 mph. Low-low on a stock Rocket is about 24 g.i. Not low enought IMO.
Again the Rolhoff might help here too. Another option might be a Quad on the front. Check the
archives on that thread a few months back.
--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.orgOpen ↗
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Cletus D. Lee said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Going up that hill, I'm pushing so hard on the steep sections, spinning faster just means I'm
mashing faster. I could solve this, sort of, by switching to 28-40-52 rings, but I can't
bring myself to give up that big 62T ring. I use it too frequently. Maybe I'll experiment
with using only the small and middle rings for a while and see if I can tolerate the loss of
my tallest gears.

I don't think you should be 'mashing' anything. Bad for the knees. If you are not in your smallest
chain ring and largest cog, and spinning like mad, don't worry yet. If you are in thoses gears,
the object on steep grades is to make it to the top on two wheels not necessarily fast but to the
top. You will not fall over at 2.5 mph. Low-low on a stock Rocket is about 24 g.i. Not low enought
IMO. Again the Rolhoff might help here too. Another option might be a Quad on the front. Check the
archives on that thread a few months back.

I agree about not mashing. I'd be happy climbing at 2.5 mph and spinning like crazy, but my low low
gear doesn't provide that. Right now, 2.5mph involves pedalling slowly.

I did a three hour ride today (not up the mountain) - trying to stay off of my 62T chainring. I
found that it seriously hampered me on the flats, and going down hills I might as well not bother
pedalling at all. Not my idea of a good set up. Giving up the 62 for a very small granny ring is
really not a great option. So I'm still trying to sort out the other options.

You suggested a Rolhoff. I checked it out - looks like a neat system. Someone else suggested the
Schlumpf mountain drive ( the speed drive would work, too, depending on what chainring it's fitted
with). Did you have a specific reason for suggesting the Rolhoff rather than the Schlumpf? Just
curious. Thanks.

Bruce

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Did you have a specific reason for suggesting the Rolhoff rather than the Schlumpf? Just curious.
Thanks.

I don't like the method of shifting the Schlumpf. It shifts with the heel and that only happens to
be in the right plase once per revolution. The times I tried this, I had to stop pedaling for an
instant to change gears. Maybe I would get petter with shifting on the fly with time but it seemed
awkward. The Rolhoff OTOH can be shifted even while stopped.

And IIRC there are more gear range with the Rolhoff.

See what it would take in a granny to get your low gear into the 18-20 GI range. You should be able
to climb anything reasonable with that kind of low gear

There are some graphic gear charts on the web. Wolfgang Ambrosch used to have a good one on the
B.I.E.R. website but it seems to have Vanished. If you can find one, play around with options to see
what you would have to do to achieve a 18-120 range on the Rocket.

--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.orgOpen ↗
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Cletus Lee said:

... My P-38 has an Ultegra triple in front and XTR rear. I run 52-42-26 on the front. I use it
with Dura-Ace Bar-End Shifters - SL-BS77. They work just fine. Of course the front Derailleur is
not indexed and this does not present a problem.

This may not be the limit depending on the front derailleur - I have seen a 54-44-24 work on a P-38
with Ultegra Bar-Con shifters. Shifting to and from the granny is not the smoothest, but is still
acceptable.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)