Service Intervals

tafi said:

G'day.
I am coming to the end of my season (and so to the begginings of the next one) and I'm thinking of planning out a maintenance schedule for the coming year so that training is less likely to be interrupted by breakages.
The main critical components to consider are the chain, cassette and chainrings and they tend to wear in that order.
i have been told by a mechanic (with reference to Campagnolo 10 speed) that you can get 3000km from a chain, 3 chains to a cassette and 3 cassettes to a set of chainrings.
Does anyone know how accurate this is and if it is the same for shimano 10 speed and for nine speed systems?

Once this is planned out you know ahead of time when you will need to make changes and you can plann for them (by having the parts available).

Cheers

Chain life and miles is meaningless.Quit guessing or taking lame advice and learn how to measure one for wear. People get 8k and more miles out of DA or Record chains with good maintenance.YMMV.

boudreaux said:

Chain life and miles is meaningless.Quit guessing or taking lame advice and learn how to measure one for wear. People get 8k and more miles out of DA or Record chains with good maintenance.YMMV.

You honestly had no idea what I was talking about did you? Your "method" proposed regularly checking for stretch whilst still having no idea when the chain should be replaced. Completely the opposite to the schedule I am trying to set up. I am trying to prevent the need to perform the sort of rubbish you are proposing.
We are talking about a bike, not nuclear fusion.

You want to use a stretch guide? Fine! Do that but realise that over time dirt will wort its way under the rollers affecting the measurement you make and causing you to underestimate stretch. Not much dirt thats for sure but enough to make the measurement innacurate at best. Added to this is he fact that comercially available gauges do not measure stretch at all but rather tell you if it has stretched too far or not. It gives you no idea of when to change the cahin until it's too late.
.

The stretch of a chain that is looked after should be proportional to the amount of energy that has passed through it. This depends on the power output and the time it has been operating for. Depending on what type of rider you are you should be able to get an estimate (which is what I said it was - I never claimed it to be accurate to the mm) of riding time per component. If it has to be a conservative estimate then so be it.
I am a person who actually wants to RIDE my bike. Not sit around fiddling with it.

tafi said:

You honestly had no idea what I was talking about did you? Your "method" proposed regularly checking for stretch whilst still having no idea when the chain should be replaced. Completely the opposite to the schedule I am trying to set up. I am trying to prevent the need to perform the sort of rubbish you are proposing.
We are talking about a bike, not nuclear fusion.

You want to use a stretch guide? Fine! Do that but realise that over time dirt will wort its way under the rollers affecting the measurement you make and causing you to underestimate stretch. Not much dirt thats for sure but enough to make the measurement innacurate at best. Added to this is he fact that comercially available gauges do not measure stretch at all but rather tell you if it has stretched too far or not. It gives you no idea of when to change the cahin until it's too late.
.

The stretch of a chain that is looked after should be proportional to the amount of energy that has passed through it. This depends on the power output and the time it has been operating for. Depending on what type of rider you are you should be able to get an estimate (which is what I said it was - I never claimed it to be accurate to the mm) of riding time per component. If it has to be a conservative estimate then so be it.
I am a person who actually wants to RIDE my bike. Not sit around fiddling with it.

You are the one with the rubbish AND a full load of [censored]!. People that know what they are doing measure chain wear by elongation, and do it very well with a decent 12" ruler. The Park chainchecker isn't my idea of a good time,but it does measure in % INCREMENTS based on the 1% concept, from 0 .25 .50 .75 and 1. So put that in your crack pipe and smoke it.

boudreaux said:

You are the one with the rubbish AND a full load of [censored]!. People that know what they are doing measure chain wear by elongation, and do it very well with a decent 12" ruler. The Park chainchecker isn't my idea of a good time,but it does measure in % INCREMENTS based on the 1% concept, from 0 .25 .50 .75 and 1. So put that in your crack pipe and smoke it.

And you expect a ruler to give an accurate measure between the centre's of pins.

tafi said:

You honestly had no idea what I was talking about did you? Your "method" proposed regularly checking for stretch whilst still having no idea when the chain should be replaced. Completely the opposite to the schedule I am trying to set up. I am trying to prevent the need to perform the sort of rubbish you are proposing.
We are talking about a bike, not nuclear fusion.

You want to use a stretch guide? Fine! Do that but realise that over time dirt will wort its way under the rollers affecting the measurement you make and causing you to underestimate stretch. Not much dirt thats for sure but enough to make the measurement innacurate at best. Added to this is he fact that comercially available gauges do not measure stretch at all but rather tell you if it has stretched too far or not. It gives you no idea of when to change the cahin until it's too late.

The stretch of a chain that is looked after should be proportional to the amount of energy that has passed through it. This depends on the power output and the time it has been operating for. Depending on what type of rider you are you should be able to get an estimate (which is what I said it was - I never claimed it to be accurate to the mm) of riding time per component. If it has to be a conservative estimate then so be it.
I am a person who actually wants to RIDE my bike. Not sit around fiddling with it.

You can of course maintain your equipment as you wish. But, checking is the only sure way to know when the chain is worn; more accurate and safer than a fixed mileage interval. The aviation industry learned some years ago that fixed-time replacements were not as safe or economical as inspecting and replacing on-condition.

I use an $8 Park CC-3 chain gauge, and drop it on the chain every 200 miles or so. Takes all of 10 seconds. It's a simple no-go gauge, with both 0.75% and 1.0% sides. When the 0.75% side drops in, the chain is still useable, but showing wear. Replace the chain then and you'll be very conservative.

The tool may vary, but every competent mechanic I know measures chains for wear. Some shops will try to sell you a chain every 1500 miles, but that's just to get your money. Not unlike a car shop trying to sell you a new set of tires everytime you come in for an oil change!

Agree it's good to have the parts ready in advance. My new PC-99 is sitting near the bike, right beside the CC-3 gauge. I'm at 4000 miles now, and ready to change the chain as soon as the first wear limit is reached. It's an easy 5 minute job with no tools required since SRAM has a master link.

tafi said:

And you expect a ruler to give an accurate measure between the centre's of pins.

Absolutely,assuming you aren't on crack. I'm sure you could see the difference between the 12" in a foot of new chain and 121/16" when it's time to replace it. Assuming you aren't on crack.Plenty of others including myself have no problem.When not on crack.

tafi said:

G'day.
I am coming to the end of my season (and so to the begginings of the next one) and I'm thinking of planning out a maintenance schedule for the coming year so that training is less likely to be interrupted by breakages.
The main critical components to consider are the chain, cassette and chainrings and they tend to wear in that order.
i have been told by a mechanic (with reference to Campagnolo 10 speed) that you can get 3000km from a chain, 3 chains to a cassette and 3 cassettes to a set of chainrings.
Does anyone know how accurate this is and if it is the same for shimano 10 speed and for nine speed systems?

Once this is planned out you know ahead of time when you will need to make changes and you can plan for them (by having the parts available).

Cheers

tafi: I'm not clear about how the 1/3000km, 3/1 cassette and 3/1 chainring formula is any more or less accurate that what boudreaux or dhk are suggesting. You did inquire with the Forum about how accurate the aforementioned method was, and the response provided is, as far as my experience is concerned, an accepted, accurate method to measure the wear you are concerned about.

Second, setting up a schedule, while convenient and maybe preventative, still may not accomplish what I understand to be your objective: to avoid training interruptions as a result of breakages. For instance, if your type and style of riding along with the climatic conditions you ride in, are conducive to accelerated wear, then the above formula may in fact result in untimely maintenance and a breakage, which is what you wish to avoid.

To a point, I think I understand why you wish to set up a reasonable schedule. As an example, I change the oil in my vehicles every 3,000 miles w/o fail. I've never had an engine failure, but then again I drive 6,500/year, and the vehicle's manufacturer says 1 oil change/7,500 miles is recommended. At this rate I'll never know for sure, but..., I think I've taken a preventative approach. Conversely, my brother changes the oil in his vehicle every 30,000 miles. No engine failures either, but he drives 30,000 mile a year. So who's taken the right approach? I couldn't say with certainty. So..., all my ramblings amount to this: Do whatever you feel is best for you and don't think about it again. Returning to your question of accuracy; as in the example above - Who Knows!

Best of luck with your training in the coming season! G'day!

-Wm.

tafi said:

G'day.
I am coming to the end of my season (and so to the begginings of the next one) and I'm thinking of planning out a maintenance schedule for the coming year so that training is less likely to be interrupted by breakages.
The main critical components to consider are the chain, cassette and chainrings and they tend to wear in that order.
i have been told by a mechanic (with reference to Campagnolo 10 speed) that you can get 3000km from a chain, 3 chains to a cassette and 3 cassettes to a set of chainrings.
Does anyone know how accurate this is and if it is the same for shimano 10 speed and for nine speed systems?

Once this is planned out you know ahead of time when you will need to make changes and you can plann for them (by having the parts available).

Cheers

I have Ultegra 9 speed casette, dura ace chain and clean and very lightly lube every other ride about 75 miles.

I replace chains every 1500 miles which is about the same rate that my conti gp3's wear.

The idea is to replace before the wear even starts to avoid prematurely wearing the casette and rings.

I think the price of ($26.00 dura ace)and the feel of having a new chain is definately worth that price to me.

each to his own I guess.

mwinoski said:

I have Ultegra 9 speed casette, dura ace chain and clean and very lightly lube every other ride about 75 miles.

I replace chains every 1500 miles which is about the same rate that my conti gp3's wear.

The idea is to replace before the wear even starts to avoid prematurely wearing the casette and rings.

I think the price of ($26.00 dura ace)and the feel of having a new chain is definately worth that price to me.

each to his own I guess.

Agree we all have different values here, probably going back to how we were brought up. I have a strong desire to not throw away anything that still has useful life in it. Throwing away perfectly good chains, or GP3000s, with only 1500 miles on them just isn't something I can do, even though the cost isn't huge. I'm sure I spend a lot more on Gatorade, water and snacks at convenience stores in 1500 miles. As you said, to each his own.

But, chain wear starts immediately, so it's impossible to replace a chain before the wear even starts, as you suggest. Believe the cog and chainring wear issue is exaggerated too, mostly by LBS who like to sell us chains. Chain stretch of 0.75% (between 1/16 and 1/8 inches over a foot) is going to have a minimal adverse effect on the chainrings and cogs in my experience. And, when these finally have to be replaced, it's not a big deal either.

We all maintain our bikes differently. Suppose what really counts in the end is putting on those 1500 miles a few times every season.