Shift / break lever advice

Sean M. Cunningham said:

I was surprised to see how much shift/break levers cost. I was thinking
about posting to .marketplace and looking for a used set. I was just going
to take the cheapest 8+ speed set that came along, and then buy derailers
that would work with the shifters.

I have a Shimano 105 53/39t double crankset, and I assume that this would
work with either Campy or Shimano derailers. Is this correct?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

Also, does this sound like a good idea (to buy the cheapest shifters I can
and then base the rest of the build on what will work with them)?

Depends what they are. Beware of "bargains" in old Dura-Ace stuff,
'cause there are serious compatibility issues.
http://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace

Quoted message said:

Does
anybody have any other ideas or suggestions? And do you think 8 speeds in
the rear would be enough range with a 53/39 front?

The number of sprockets is not the same as the range. Range is
determined by the _size_ of the sprockets, not how many there are.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/gears

Even if you could find them, I wouldn't recommend buying Shimano 8-speed
shifters unless they are _very_ cheap. It makes more sense to upgrade
to 9-speed, since the expensive part of this conversion is the shifter,
and you already need a shifter!

There isn't a lot of reason for 8-speed to continue in existence, since
it has no advantages over 9-speed, and it is so easy to upgrade from 8-
to 9.

Sheldon "8? Nein!" Brown
+---------------------------------------+
| There's nothing like not being dead |
| to improve a fellow's outlook. |
| -- Michael Flynn |
+---------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Quoted message said:

I was surprised to see how much shift/break levers cost. I was thinking
about posting to .marketplace and looking for a used set. I was just going
to take the cheapest 8+ speed set that came along, and then buy derailers
that would work with the shifters.

STI levers aren't inexpensive, but they do work very nicely. You might check
your local shops and see if they have any Tiagras laying around from new
bikes where somebody wanted to upgrade to '105 or Ultegra. The Tiagras work
very nicely, but don't get the respect they deserve.

As Sheldon mentioned, there will be future compatibility issues with 8-speed
as Shimano moves more groups to 9-speeds. It's not as much of an issue as it
had been with Campagnolo, since Shimano generally retains compatibility with
lower-priced equipment (so, you might not be able to get a high-end 8-speed
cassette down the road, but you will be able to get something that works).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Sean M. Cunningham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I'm working on a new road bike. This is my first build.

I was surprised to see how much shift/break levers cost. I was thinking
about posting to .marketplace and looking for a used set. I was just going
to take the cheapest 8+ speed set that came along, and then buy derailers
that would work with the shifters.

I have a Shimano 105 53/39t double crankset, and I assume that this would
work with either Campy or Shimano derailers. Is this correct?

Also, does this sound like a good idea (to buy the cheapest shifters I can
and then base the rest of the build on what will work with them)? Does
anybody have any other ideas or suggestions? And do you think 8 speeds in
the rear would be enough range with a 53/39 front?

I'm not looking for top performance or to compete. I just want something
quick to ride around my neighborhood and maybe take some long distance
rides with when I get some more experience.

thanks!
---
Sean Cunningham
[email hidden]

Sean M. Cunningham said:

Hello,

I'm working on a new road bike. This is my first build.

I was surprised to see how much shift/break levers cost. I was thinking
about posting to .marketplace and looking for a used set. I was just going
to take the cheapest 8+ speed set that came along, and then buy derailers
that would work with the shifters.

Sora are Shimano's 8-speed shifters. Not too expensive either, but if
you're building from scratch then 8 speed is a technological aporia. On
the other hand, 9 speed is heading the same way.

Quoted message said:

I have a Shimano 105 53/39t double crankset, and I assume that this would
work with either Campy or Shimano derailers. Is this correct?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

Also, does this sound like a good idea (to buy the cheapest shifters I can
and then base the rest of the build on what will work with them)? Does
anybody have any other ideas or suggestions? And do you think 8 speeds in
the rear would be enough range with a 53/39 front?

No - I'd spend the money on the stuff that is expensive and difficult to
replace, i.e. hubs. Can you stretch to Tiagra with 105 hubs?

8 speed will give more than enough range (7 speed is perfectly adequate,
really), but 9 speed does allow a nice 12-25 cassette which is
close-range but allows a wussy gear for steep hills.

Quoted message said:

I'm not looking for top performance or to compete. I just want something
quick to ride around my neighborhood and maybe take some long distance
rides with when I get some more experience.

Zog The Undeniable said:

...
Sora are Shimano's 8-speed shifters. Not too expensive either, but if
you're building from scratch then 8 speed is a technological aporia. On
the other hand, 9 speed is heading the same way....

Even for MTB use? It would seem that the potential benefit of an extra
ratio would be outweighed by the lesser tolerance of the 10-speed
systems of dirt and misalignment that is inevitable in real off-road use.

--
Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island

Sheldon Brown said:

Sean M. Cunningham said:

I was surprised to see how much shift/break levers cost.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Does anybody have any other ideas or suggestions?

If you do not want to spend too much bar end or downtube shifters might
be worth a try.

Quoted message said:

It makes more sense to upgrade
to 9-speed, since the expensive part of this conversion is the
shifter, and you already need a shifter!

For a new road bike with 'brifters' this makes sense. But I do not agree
on the following, more general statement:

Quoted message said:

There isn't a lot of reason for 8-speed to continue in existence,
since it has no advantages over 9-speed, and it is so easy to upgrade
from 8- to 9.

There is one obvious reason: cost. On my MTB where I need more chains
and sprockets as compared to my bikes for road use I do prefer an eight
speed setup. Replacements are quite a bit cheaper than comparable nine
speed parts and I would not really profit from smaller steps or a
bigger overall range. In order to keep maintenance costs low I am also
not likely to go for ten speeds on the road bike as long as eight or
nine speed parts are available.

Guenther - gerne auch mal achtfach

Sean M. Cunningham said:

I'm working on a new road bike. This is my first build.

I was surprised to see how much shift/break levers cost. I was

thinking

Quoted message said:

about posting to .marketplace and looking for a used set. I was just

going

Quoted message said:

to take the cheapest 8+ speed set that came along, and then buy

derailers

Quoted message said:

that would work with the shifters.

I have a Shimano 105 53/39t double crankset, and I assume that this

would

Quoted message said:

work with either Campy or Shimano derailers. Is this correct?

Yes. This crankset, and all others, will work with 5 through 10 cogs
in the back.

Quoted message said:

Also, does this sound like a good idea (to buy the cheapest shifters

I can

Quoted message said:

and then base the rest of the build on what will work with them)?

Does

Quoted message said:

anybody have any other ideas or suggestions? And do you think 8

speeds in

Quoted message said:

the rear would be enough range with a 53/39 front?

You need to supply more information to get a good answer. Is the
crankset the only thing you have? And everything else will be
purchased? New or used?

Shimano hubs take 8/9/10 speed cassettes. So the wheels will work the
same for 8 or 9. Campagnolo did use different hubs for 8 and 9 speeds.

Cassettes are pretty uniform in price. And in cog sizes. Nashbar has
8 or 9 cassettes from Shimano or SRAM for about the same price.
Nashbar also has 8 and 9 speed Campagnolo cassettes for about the same
price too.

Derailleurs are the same for 8, 9, and 10 speed. All interchangeable
for Shimano. And I think interchangeable for Campagnolo too.

Chains are the same price for 8, 9 speed. 9 speed chain will work on 8
speed bikes. 8 speed chain will probably work on 9 speed too. But
just get the right chain for $10.

Shifters. You're assuming the 8 speed shifters are going to be cheaper
than the 9 speed shifters. Not sure that is true. 9 speed has been
around quite awhile and you are very likely to find a cheap set since
they are so plentiful.

It won't really matter whether you end up with 8 or 9 speeds. But if
you are startigng with nothing, then go 9 speed. The closer gear
ratios are nicer. Shifting is identical. Wear rate is the same.

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Zog The Undeniable said:

...
Sora are Shimano's 8-speed shifters. Not too expensive either, but if
you're building from scratch then 8 speed is a technological aporia. On
the other hand, 9 speed is heading the same way....

Even for MTB use? It would seem that the potential benefit of an extra
ratio would be outweighed by the lesser tolerance of the 10-speed systems
of dirt and misalignment that is inevitable in real off-road use.

My big gripe is that so many manufacturers cut their last length of housing
to the rear derailleur ridiculously too short, turning the cable and housing
in a tight radius that only serves to increase friction and allow foreign
matter to freeze up the cable. I cut last leg of housing on my MTB to a
diameter that's half the diameter of the wheel.

Another gripe is the last length of brake housing before the rear V-brake
caliper. It's always too long, crunching the noodle and housing together,
and causing the flip-flop condition of so many MTB rear brakes, where the
housing and noodle can be pushed below a line drawn between the caliper and
the cable stop on the top tube. This results in sluggish braking. At least
the fix is easy.

Shifting issues would go down and rear braking quality would improve if
assemblers addressed these problems.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

On 24.01.05 22:39 Tom Sherman said:

Zog The Undeniable said:

...
Sora are Shimano's 8-speed shifters. Not too expensive either, but if
you're building from scratch then 8 speed is a technological aporia.
On the other hand, 9 speed is heading the same way....

Even for MTB use? It would seem that the potential benefit of an extra
ratio would be outweighed by the lesser tolerance of the 10-speed
systems of dirt and misalignment that is inevitable in real off-road use.

Personally, I prefer 8-speed (twisters) over 9-speed for my winter bike,
just for that reason. It's an MTB, and during snowy and slushy
conditions, I can keep on a little longer before the "slush problem"
becomes untolerable.

Of course, this is valid where I live, at 63°26' latitude, with winter
from October/November to April...

--
Størker Moe
'97 GT Avalanche, '98 Trek 800, '01 Trek Fuel 90

Email Storker(DOT)Moe(AT)chemeng(DOT)ntnu(DOT)no
WWW http://www.chemeng.ntnu.no/~stmoe/

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On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 11:49:37 -0500, "Sean M. Cunningham" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I'm working on a new road bike. This is my first build.

I was surprised to see how much shift/break levers cost. I was thinking
about posting to .marketplace and looking for a used set. I was just going
to take the cheapest 8+ speed set that came along, and then buy derailers
that would work with the shifters.

I have a Shimano 105 53/39t double crankset, and I assume that this would
work with either Campy or Shimano derailers. Is this correct?

Also, does this sound like a good idea (to buy the cheapest shifters I can
and then base the rest of the build on what will work with them)? Does
anybody have any other ideas or suggestions? And do you think 8 speeds in
the rear would be enough range with a 53/39 front?

I'm not looking for top performance or to compete. I just want something
quick to ride around my neighborhood and maybe take some long distance
rides with when I get some more experience.

You've gotten plenty of good advise. Having been on the upgrade path myself
lately, let me offer a couple of comments. If you buy new shifters you'll almost
always get a full set of cables, Housings and stops, usually of exactly the type
and quantity necessary. Don't forget those items as a cost when comparing the
price of used versus new. Those pieces and the hassle factor can add up fast.

If price is a big issue consider bar-ends.

Eight speeds is plenty. Hell, seven's enough and we used to do okay with five
and six. Sheldon's talking straight about the economy of going to 9s. If ya
gotta have the brifter go 9.

Your cranks and chainrings are fine.

Have fun.

Ron