shifting problems...

"Penny S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Operator Error?

I have been throwing my chain to the inside a lot at time,
and not being able to shift real smooth in certain
situations. The whole

derailleur/cable

Quoted message said:

system was just rebuilt and operates perfectly on the
workstand, or on rolling trail. It could be that I'm not
throwing the shift lever far

enough

Quoted message said:

to totally engage the derailleur is the problem, but it
has also been suggested to me that my timing, and what I'm
doing with crank/pedal

torque

Quoted message said:

is what's messing me up. Typically your basic up one gear
on the trail

is

Quoted message said:

fine, or up one chain ring is fine, I'm running into
problems when in tighter situations is where I'm having
trouble.. of course. Any

constructive

Quoted message said:

tips on improving my shifting would be really appreciated.

Don't know if this'll help you, but as long as the shifter
clicks, everything should be fine at the derailluer. All I
do is slow my pedal stroke down slightly (lessen the torque)
for just an instant, until the chain engages the next gear.
Being in a tight situation, I can see how one could try and
rush it (panic shift), but that's where the trouble starts.
Try practicing fast, but smooth shifts. It may sound silly,
but could possibly help.

Penny S said:

Operator Error?

I have been throwing my chain to the inside a lot at time,
and not being able to shift real smooth in certain
situations. The whole derailleur/cable system was just
rebuilt and operates perfectly on the workstand, or on
rolling trail. It could be that I'm not throwing the shift
lever far enough to totally engage the derailleur is the
problem, but it has also been suggested to me that my
timing, and what I'm doing with crank/pedal torque is
what's messing me up. Typically your basic up one gear on
the trail is fine, or up one chain ring is fine, I'm
running into problems when in tighter situations is where
I'm having trouble.. of course. Any constructive tips on
improving my shifting would be really appreciated.

Wait a sec. Throwing your chain to the inside (I assume you
mean up front?) and the shifting technique issues you
describe are two separate problems/questions (though almost
certainly related).

Both /could/ be from simple cable stretch, although it
sounds like your front derailleur may need a set-screw
adjustment, too. The rear sure SOUNDS like a little cable
stretch; turn the barrel adjuster at the derailleur counter-
clockwise to tighten the tension a tad.

It's easy to "over push" the thumb shifter when needing to
go up a few cogs in back; try "single clicking" quickly to
get the individual shifts to happen fast, instead of
forcing it.

Bill "will shut up now and let someone who knows
something talk" S.

In "]news:[email hidden],
Penny S <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Operator Error?

I have been throwing my chain to the inside a lot at time,
and not being able to shift real smooth in certain
situations. The whole derailleur/cable system was just
rebuilt and operates perfectly on the workstand, or on
rolling trail. It could be that I'm not throwing the shift
lever far enough to totally engage the derailleur is the
problem, but it has also been suggested to me that my
timing, and what I'm doing with crank/pedal torque is
what's messing me up. Typically your basic up one gear on
the trail is fine, or up one chain ring is fine, I'm
running into problems when in tighter situations is where
I'm having trouble.. of course. Any constructive tips on
improving my shifting would be really appreciated.

penny

Sounds like your cable tension needs to be increased. Use
the barrel adjuster on your shifter by unscrewing it
about 1/2 turn at a time. If it's unscrewed too far
already you may need to loosen the cable pinch bolt at
the front derailleur and pull the cable tighter. This is
done while shifted in the small ring to release all
tension from the shifter.

More often than not a bike that will shift perfectly in the
stand will show problems on the trail. The chain needs to be
under riding load. So you get it very close in the stand and
fine tune it on a test ride.

parktool.comhowfix frontderailOpen ↗
leur.shtml

Mike

S o r n i said:

Penny S said:

Operator Error?

I have been throwing my chain to the inside a lot at time,
and not being able to shift real smooth in certain
situations. The whole derailleur/cable system was just
rebuilt and operates perfectly on the workstand, or on
rolling trail. It could be that I'm not throwing the shift
lever far enough to totally engage the derailleur is the
problem, but it has also been suggested to me that my
timing, and what I'm doing with crank/pedal torque is
what's messing me up. Typically your basic up one gear on
the trail is fine, or up one chain ring is fine, I'm
running into problems when in tighter situations is where
I'm having trouble.. of course. Any constructive tips on
improving my shifting would be really appreciated.

Wait a sec. Throwing your chain to the inside (I assume
you mean up front?) and the shifting technique issues you
describe are two separate problems/questions (though
almost certainly related).

Both /could/ be from simple cable stretch, although it
sounds like your front derailleur may need a set-screw
adjustment, too. The rear sure SOUNDS like a little cable
stretch; turn the barrel adjuster at the derailleur counter-
clockwise to tighten the tension a tad.

It's easy to "over push" the thumb shifter when needing to
go up a few cogs in back; try "single clicking" quickly to
get the individual shifts to happen fast, instead of
forcing it.

Bill "will shut up now and let someone who knows something
talk" S.

Penny,

I'll second Bill. Check the set screw in the front. It may
be allowing your derailleur to go too far in toward the
frame. As for the rear. If you're having trouble getting
into larger cogs, that "tad" Bill refers to should be 1/4
turn at a time with a few test shifts while riding in
between turns. If the problem is hitting smaller cog shifts,
turn the barrel clockwise a "tad" at a time.

Shawn

Shawn Curry said:

S o r n i said:

Penny S said:

Operator Error?

I have been throwing my chain to the inside a lot at
time, and not being able to shift real smooth in certain
situations. The whole derailleur/cable system was just
rebuilt and operates perfectly on the workstand, or on
rolling trail. It could be that I'm not throwing the
shift lever far enough to totally engage the derailleur
is the problem, but it has also been suggested to me
that my timing, and what I'm doing with crank/pedal
torque is what's messing me up. Typically your basic up
one gear on the trail is fine, or up one chain ring is
fine, I'm running into problems when in tighter
situations is where I'm having trouble.. of course. Any
constructive tips on improving my shifting would be
really appreciated.

Wait a sec. Throwing your chain to the inside (I assume
you mean up front?) and the shifting technique issues you
describe are two separate problems/questions (though
almost certainly related).

Both /could/ be from simple cable stretch, although it
sounds like your front derailleur may need a set-screw
adjustment, too. The rear sure SOUNDS like a little cable
stretch; turn the barrel adjuster at the derailleur counter-
clockwise to tighten the tension a tad.

It's easy to "over push" the thumb shifter when needing
to go up a few cogs in back; try "single clicking"
quickly to get the individual shifts to happen fast,
instead of forcing it.

Bill "will shut up now and let someone who knows
something talk" S.

Penny,

I'll second Bill. Check the set screw in the front. It may
be allowing your derailleur to go too far in toward the
frame. As for the rear. If you're having trouble getting
into larger cogs, that "tad" Bill refers to should be 1/4
turn at a time with a few test shifts while riding in
between turns. If the problem is hitting smaller cog
shifts, turn the barrel clockwise a "tad" at a time.

Shawn

rear shifting is fine, and yes it happens under load. I take
it that it's time to do some field adjustments and don't
rely on workstand performance??

Penny S said:

rear shifting is fine, and yes it happens under load. I
take it that it's time to do some field adjustments and
don't rely on workstand performance??

Yup. Take your time. Make sure each change in adjustment
hasn't gone the wrong way. If so, undo it and go the Other
way. Also, check to make sure the cable guide near the BB is
free of crud and lightly lubed (if its bare cable-not in
housing). I've had problems there lately. Did your re-build
involve a new chain? This usually necessitates some
adjustment in my experience. Not to mention the new chain
old parts sermon I know you've heard, but that doesn't sound
like the problem. Then again there's always SS! Nah :-p

Shawn

Shawn Curry said:

Penny S said:

rear shifting is fine, and yes it happens under load. I
take it that it's time to do some field adjustments and
don't rely on workstand performance??

Yup. Take your time. Make sure each change in adjustment
hasn't gone the wrong way. If so, undo it and go the
Other way. Also, check to make sure the cable guide near
the BB is free of crud and lightly lubed (if its bare cable-
not in housing). I've had problems there lately. Did your
re-build involve a new chain? This usually necessitates
some adjustment in my experience. Not to mention the new
chain old parts sermon I know you've heard, but that
doesn't sound like the problem. Then again there's always
SS! Nah :-p

Shawn

I see I'm going to have to learn to do this myself.

The chain was not part of the strip down, new
cables/guides/clean and grease routine, probably later this
spring I'll do that.

p.

Ignore the guys saying to adjust your cable, that is only
the possible second thing you should do. There are two
screws on the top (in most cases) of your derailer the
outside screw adjusts the derailer so it can't go too far
and flip your chain off on the inside. The inside screw
limits how far your derailer can go to the outside.

Now all this is very simple but there is one aspect to this
that screws everything up. Once you get the outside limit
set and the inside limit set sometimes you have problems
shifting to and from the middle gear. So now you adjust the
cable as good as you can then you may need to tweak the
inside and outside limit settings. Sounds hard but if your
bike is out of adjustment it won't hurt to play with the
adjustments. An experienced bike mechanic can fix anything
you do in minutes.

Penny S said:

Operator Error?

I have been throwing my chain to the inside a lot at time,
and not being able to shift real smooth in certain
situations. The whole derailleur/cable system was just
rebuilt and operates perfectly on the workstand, or on
rolling trail. It could be that I'm not throwing the shift
lever far enough to totally engage the derailleur is the
problem, but it has also been suggested to me that my
timing, and what I'm doing with crank/pedal torque is
what's messing me up. Typically your basic up one gear on
the trail is fine, or up one chain ring is fine, I'm
running into problems when in tighter situations is where
I'm having trouble.. of course. Any constructive tips on
improving my shifting would be really appreciated.

penny