shifting problems...

"Penny S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Operator Error?

I have been throwing my chain to the inside a lot at time, and not being
able to shift real smooth in certain situations. The whole

derailleur/cable

Quoted message said:

system was just rebuilt and operates perfectly on the workstand, or on
rolling trail. It could be that I'm not throwing the shift lever far

enough

Quoted message said:

to totally engage the derailleur is the problem, but it has also been
suggested to me that my timing, and what I'm doing with crank/pedal

torque

Quoted message said:

is what's messing me up. Typically your basic up one gear on the trail

is

Quoted message said:

fine, or up one chain ring is fine, I'm running into problems when in
tighter situations is where I'm having trouble.. of course. Any

constructive

Quoted message said:

tips on improving my shifting would be really appreciated.

Don't know if this'll help you, but as long as the shifter clicks,
everything should be fine at the derailluer. All I do is slow my pedal
stroke down slightly (lessen the torque) for just an instant, until the
chain engages the next gear. Being in a tight situation, I can see how one
could try and rush it (panic shift), but that's where the trouble starts.
Try practicing fast, but smooth shifts. It may sound silly, but could
possibly help.

Penny S said:

Operator Error?

I have been throwing my chain to the inside a lot at time, and not
being able to shift real smooth in certain situations. The whole
derailleur/cable system was just rebuilt and operates perfectly on
the workstand, or on rolling trail. It could be that I'm not throwing
the shift lever far enough to totally engage the derailleur is the
problem, but it has also been suggested to me that my timing, and
what I'm doing with crank/pedal torque is what's messing me up.
Typically your basic up one gear on the trail is fine, or up one
chain ring is fine, I'm running into problems when in tighter
situations is where I'm having trouble.. of course. Any constructive
tips on improving my shifting would be really appreciated.

Wait a sec. Throwing your chain to the inside (I assume you mean up front?)
and the shifting technique issues you describe are two separate
problems/questions (though almost certainly related).

Both /could/ be from simple cable stretch, although it sounds like your
front derailleur may need a set-screw adjustment, too. The rear sure SOUNDS
like a little cable stretch; turn the barrel adjuster at the derailleur
counter-clockwise to tighten the tension a tad.

It's easy to "over push" the thumb shifter when needing to go up a few cogs
in back; try "single clicking" quickly to get the individual shifts to
happen fast, instead of forcing it.

Bill "will shut up now and let someone who knows something talk" S.

In news:[email hidden],
Penny S <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Operator Error?

I have been throwing my chain to the inside a lot at time, and not
being able to shift real smooth in certain situations. The whole
derailleur/cable system was just rebuilt and operates perfectly on
the workstand, or on rolling trail. It could be that I'm not throwing
the shift lever far enough to totally engage the derailleur is the
problem, but it has also been suggested to me that my timing, and
what I'm doing with crank/pedal torque is what's messing me up.
Typically your basic up one gear on the trail is fine, or up one
chain ring is fine, I'm running into problems when in tighter
situations is where I'm having trouble.. of course. Any constructive
tips on improving my shifting would be really appreciated.

penny

Sounds like your cable tension needs to be increased. Use the barrel
adjuster on your shifter by unscrewing it about 1/2 turn at a time. If it's
unscrewed too far already you may need to loosen the cable pinch bolt at the
front derailleur and pull the cable tighter. This is done while shifted in
the small ring to release all tension from the shifter.

More often than not a bike that will shift perfectly in the stand will show
problems on the trail. The chain needs to be under riding load. So you get
it very close in the stand and fine tune it on a test ride.

http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/howfix_frontderailleur.shtml

Mike

S o r n i said:

Penny S said:

Operator Error?

I have been throwing my chain to the inside a lot at time, and not
being able to shift real smooth in certain situations. The whole
derailleur/cable system was just rebuilt and operates perfectly on
the workstand, or on rolling trail. It could be that I'm not throwing
the shift lever far enough to totally engage the derailleur is the
problem, but it has also been suggested to me that my timing, and
what I'm doing with crank/pedal torque is what's messing me up.
Typically your basic up one gear on the trail is fine, or up one
chain ring is fine, I'm running into problems when in tighter
situations is where I'm having trouble.. of course. Any constructive
tips on improving my shifting would be really appreciated.

Wait a sec. Throwing your chain to the inside (I assume you mean up front?)
and the shifting technique issues you describe are two separate
problems/questions (though almost certainly related).

Both /could/ be from simple cable stretch, although it sounds like your
front derailleur may need a set-screw adjustment, too. The rear sure SOUNDS
like a little cable stretch; turn the barrel adjuster at the derailleur
counter-clockwise to tighten the tension a tad.

It's easy to "over push" the thumb shifter when needing to go up a few cogs
in back; try "single clicking" quickly to get the individual shifts to
happen fast, instead of forcing it.

Bill "will shut up now and let someone who knows something talk" S.

Penny,

I'll second Bill. Check the set screw in the front. It may be allowing
your derailleur to go too far in toward the frame. As for the rear. If
you're having trouble getting into larger cogs, that "tad" Bill refers
to should be 1/4 turn at a time with a few test shifts while riding in
between turns. If the problem is hitting smaller cog shifts, turn the
barrel clockwise a "tad" at a time.

Shawn

Shawn Curry said:

S o r n i said:

Penny S said:

Operator Error?

I have been throwing my chain to the inside a lot at time, and not
being able to shift real smooth in certain situations. The whole
derailleur/cable system was just rebuilt and operates perfectly on
the workstand, or on rolling trail. It could be that I'm not
throwing the shift lever far enough to totally engage the
derailleur is the problem, but it has also been suggested to me
that my timing, and what I'm doing with crank/pedal torque is
what's messing me up. Typically your basic up one gear on the trail
is fine, or up one chain ring is fine, I'm running into problems
when in tighter situations is where I'm having trouble.. of course.
Any constructive tips on improving my shifting would be really
appreciated.

Wait a sec. Throwing your chain to the inside (I assume you mean up
front?) and the shifting technique issues you describe are two
separate problems/questions (though almost certainly related).

Both /could/ be from simple cable stretch, although it sounds like
your front derailleur may need a set-screw adjustment, too. The
rear sure SOUNDS like a little cable stretch; turn the barrel
adjuster at the derailleur counter-clockwise to tighten the tension
a tad.

It's easy to "over push" the thumb shifter when needing to go up a
few cogs in back; try "single clicking" quickly to get the
individual shifts to happen fast, instead of forcing it.

Bill "will shut up now and let someone who knows something talk" S.

Penny,

I'll second Bill. Check the set screw in the front. It may be
allowing your derailleur to go too far in toward the frame. As for
the rear. If you're having trouble getting into larger cogs, that
"tad" Bill refers to should be 1/4 turn at a time with a few test
shifts while riding in between turns. If the problem is hitting
smaller cog shifts, turn the barrel clockwise a "tad" at a time.

Shawn

rear shifting is fine, and yes it happens under load. I take it that it's
time to do some
field adjustments and don't rely on workstand performance??

Penny S said:

rear shifting is fine, and yes it happens under load. I take it that it's
time to do some
field adjustments and don't rely on workstand performance??

Yup. Take your time. Make sure each change in adjustment hasn't gone
the wrong way. If so, undo it and go the Other way.
Also, check to make sure the cable guide near the BB is free of crud and
lightly lubed (if its bare cable-not in housing). I've had problems
there lately.
Did your re-build involve a new chain? This usually necessitates some
adjustment in my experience. Not to mention the new chain old parts
sermon I know you've heard, but that doesn't sound like the problem.
Then again there's always SS!
Nah :-p

Shawn

Shawn Curry said:

Penny S said:

rear shifting is fine, and yes it happens under load. I take it
that it's time to do some
field adjustments and don't rely on workstand performance??

Yup. Take your time. Make sure each change in adjustment hasn't gone
the wrong way. If so, undo it and go the Other way.
Also, check to make sure the cable guide near the BB is free of crud
and lightly lubed (if its bare cable-not in housing). I've had
problems there lately.
Did your re-build involve a new chain? This usually necessitates some
adjustment in my experience. Not to mention the new chain old parts
sermon I know you've heard, but that doesn't sound like the problem.
Then again there's always SS!
Nah :-p

Shawn

I see I'm going to have to learn to do this myself.

The chain was not part of the strip down, new cables/guides/clean and grease
routine, probably later this spring I'll do that.

p.

Ignore the guys saying to adjust your cable, that is only the possible
second thing you should do. There are two screws on the top (in most
cases) of your derailer the outside screw adjusts the derailer so it
can't go too far and flip your chain off on the inside. The inside
screw limits how far your derailer can go to the outside.

Now all this is very simple but there is one aspect to this that
screws everything up. Once you get the outside limit set and the
inside limit set sometimes you have problems shifting to and from the
middle gear. So now you adjust the cable as good as you can then you
may need to tweak the inside and outside limit settings. Sounds hard
but if your bike is out of adjustment it won't hurt to play with the
adjustments. An experienced bike mechanic can fix anything you do in
minutes.

Penny S said:

Operator Error?

I have been throwing my chain to the inside a lot at time, and not being
able to shift real smooth in certain situations. The whole derailleur/cable
system was just rebuilt and operates perfectly on the workstand, or on
rolling trail. It could be that I'm not throwing the shift lever far enough
to totally engage the derailleur is the problem, but it has also been
suggested to me that my timing, and what I'm doing with crank/pedal torque
is what's messing me up. Typically your basic up one gear on the trail is
fine, or up one chain ring is fine, I'm running into problems when in
tighter situations is where I'm having trouble.. of course. Any constructive
tips on improving my shifting would be really appreciated.

penny