Shimano 515 SPD Problem

Leo Lichtman said:

"Boyle M. Owl" wrote: (clip) It's possible that the magnet he's using is
sticking to the screws in his shoe.
AFAICT, they're brass. Indeed, it's not a "brass finish" because the color
is consistent all the way through the cleat. It's meant to be soft,
because you have a choice, either wear the cleat out or wear the pedal out,
or both simultaneously. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's a valid point, but I went back and tood the cleat OFF. and rechecked.
It is weakly magnetic. I tested with a file, and you are correct--it IS
softer than the SPD cleat. It's definitely not brass. I work with metals a
lot, and I can tell the difference. I think it's stainless steel. Some
stainless is slightly magnetic.

300 series stainless is nonmagnetic
400 series is magnetic.

Quoted message said:

An alloy of brass and steel has HORRIBLE
properties, and would never be used.

It could be a copper/nickel alloy. That would make it slightly magnetic
(the nickel is magnetic). A copper/nickel alloy would have a similar
color to the cleat too.

I pointed a pickup magnet at the cleat of my shoe today. I couldn't
rightly tell if the cleat itself was magnetic, or if I was really
picking up the steel plate underneath the sole where the cleat screws
into. It felt like the cleat was weakly magnetic. It's definitely not
steel, whatever it is. It's the wrong color, and believe me, I've got
enough samples of stainless, tool, galv, and generic CRS 1010/1018 steel
to compare it to...literally tons of it.

And the more I read, the more it seems like these cleats are made out of
Marinel (or another copper/nickel alloy) than anything else. The total
lack of tarnishing on the non-wearing surfaces throughout the winter of
salt and icy roads leads me to suspect that. Marinel is a Copper-Nickel
alloy that can have anywhere between 10 and 30 percent nickel with trace
amounts of iron and manganese.

At least that's what I would choose if I was designing a cleat that
needed to be softer than steel but strong enough to take the forces of a
caffeine fueled commuter late for work and would have high corrosion
resistance.

--
BMO

Phil said:

JD said:

I don't see how you guys ride around with those things.

JD

What "things" are you specifically referring to?
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

I think he's saying that his eyes malfunction at times. Eyes are
needed for seeing things.

Leo Lichtman said:

The instructions indicate that the cleats are deliberately made softer than
the pedals, so they will wear instead of the pedals. This makes sense to
me.

Yeah, but so are cones versus cups, and forged steel cranks versus crank
spindle interfaces.. none of them needs to go quite to the trouble of
going down to brass, rather than slightly milder steel.

Jasper

Jasper Janssen said:

Quoted message said:

The instructions indicate that the cleats are deliberately made
softer than the pedals, so they will wear instead of the pedals.
This makes sense to me.

Quoted message said:

Yeah, but so are cones versus cups, and forged steel cranks versus
crank spindle interfaces.. none of them needs to go quite to the
trouble of going down to brass, rather than slightly milder steel.

I doubt that this is a well graded affair. My experience with SPD
pedals is that the cleat AND latch gall when riding in the right
gritty conditions and cease to disengage with the expected release
force. This galling (welding) would probably not occur if there was a
large disparity in hardness or with different materials. I prefer it
the way it is because I can always put a drop of oil under the rear
tang of the cleat to return it to ideal service. I don't want this
interface to wear significantly in 50,000 miles or more. They have
not let me down.

[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Jasper Janssen said:

Quoted message said:

The instructions indicate that the cleats are deliberately made
softer than the pedals, so they will wear instead of the pedals.
This makes sense to me.

Quoted message said:

Yeah, but so are cones versus cups, and forged steel cranks versus
crank spindle interfaces.. none of them needs to go quite to the
trouble of going down to brass, rather than slightly milder steel.

I doubt that this is a well graded affair. My experience with SPD
pedals is that the cleat AND latch gall when riding in the right
gritty conditions and cease to disengage with the expected release
force. This galling (welding) would probably not occur if there was a
large disparity in hardness or with different materials. I prefer it
the way it is because I can always put a drop of oil under the rear
tang of the cleat to return it to ideal service. I don't want this
interface to wear significantly in 50,000 miles or more. They have
not let me down.

[email hidden]

you got 50k miles out of a 515 pedal??? either you had custom spindle
bearings made or you're "estimating" mileage again. there's no way the
515's stock bearings last that long. cones/spindles on mine were
irreparably spalled in less than 15k. they were correctly adjusted &
lubed. the bearing quality on the 515 simply isn't good enough.

"Jasper Janssen" wrote: (clip) none of them needs to go quite to the
trouble of going down to brass, (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^
They're NOT brass. I checked with a file! They're almost as hard as
Shimano cleats. In his post, Boyle M. Owl speculates that they may be made
of Marinel. I am not familiar with that alloy, but Mr. Owl seems to know
his metals, so I am willing to believe him.

Old Crow said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> The instructions indicate that the cleats are deliberately made
> softer than the pedals, so they will wear instead of the pedals.
> This makes sense to me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, but so are cones versus cups, and forged steel cranks versus
crank spindle interfaces.. none of them needs to go quite to the
trouble of going down to brass, rather than slightly milder steel.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I doubt that this is a well graded affair. My experience with SPD
pedals is that the cleat AND latch gall when riding in the right
gritty conditions and cease to disengage with the expected release
force. This galling (welding) would probably not occur if there
was a large disparity in hardness or with different materials. I
prefer it the way it is because I can always put a drop of oil
under the rear tang of the cleat to return it to ideal service. I
don't want this interface to wear significantly in 50,000 miles or
more. They have not let me down.

Quoted message said:

you got 50k miles out of a 515 pedal??? either you had custom
spindle bearings made or you're "estimating" mileage again. there's
no way the 515's stock bearings last that long. cones/spindles on
mine were irreparably spalled in less than 15k. they were correctly
adjusted & lubed. the bearing quality on the 515 simply isn't good
enough.

I see your shift key is still broken. Don't be such a cheapskate, get
it fixed. Meanwhile, I'm talking about the cleat interface that is
common to SPD pedals. My 737 and 525 pedals lasted more than five
years and I'm not counting anymore. That's more than 10,000 miles per
year. My current pedal that's been over the Alps six or more times:

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/bikes/brandt-cranks.jpg

So why are you so nit picky? We're talking about cleats and Shimano
pedals. Now you're changing venue to criticize the bearings. The
first SPD pedals I had, had soft bearing races on the shafts and
failed immediately while the replacements worked well. That was quite
a while ago. So?

[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Old Crow said:

Quoted message said:

>>The instructions indicate that the cleats are deliberately made
>>softer than the pedals, so they will wear instead of the pedals.
>>This makes sense to me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Yeah, but so are cones versus cups, and forged steel cranks versus
>crank spindle interfaces.. none of them needs to go quite to the
>trouble of going down to brass, rather than slightly milder steel.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I doubt that this is a well graded affair. My experience with SPD
pedals is that the cleat AND latch gall when riding in the right
gritty conditions and cease to disengage with the expected release
force. This galling (welding) would probably not occur if there
was a large disparity in hardness or with different materials. I
prefer it the way it is because I can always put a drop of oil
under the rear tang of the cleat to return it to ideal service. I
don't want this interface to wear significantly in 50,000 miles or
more. They have not let me down.

Quoted message said:

you got 50k miles out of a 515 pedal??? either you had custom
spindle bearings made or you're "estimating" mileage again. there's
no way the 515's stock bearings last that long. cones/spindles on
mine were irreparably spalled in less than 15k. they were correctly
adjusted & lubed. the bearing quality on the 515 simply isn't good
enough.

I see your shift key is still broken. Don't be such a cheapskate, get
it fixed. Meanwhile, I'm talking about the cleat interface that is
common to SPD pedals. My 737 and 525 pedals lasted more than five
years and I'm not counting anymore. That's more than 10,000 miles per
year. My current pedal that's been over the Alps six or more times:

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/bikes/brandt-cranks.jpg

So why are you so nit picky? We're talking about cleats and Shimano
pedals. Now you're changing venue to criticize the bearings. The
first SPD pedals I had, had soft bearing races on the shafts and
failed immediately while the replacements worked well. That was quite
a while ago. So?

[email hidden]

the "so" is that you are deliberately fudging your "data". again.

Leo Lichtman said:

They're NOT brass. I checked with a file! They're almost as hard as
Shimano cleats.

This is a curious claim, as they definitely wear something like 5 to 10
times faster than Shimano cleats. Perhaps there's something in my
pedaling technique that makes Eggbeater cleats disintegrate in no time
while SPD cleats last more than 15 thousand kilometres?

-as

Leo Lichtman said:

"Jasper Janssen" wrote: (clip) none of them needs to go quite to the
trouble of going down to brass, (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^
They're NOT brass. I checked with a file! They're almost as hard as
Shimano cleats.

Be aware, though, that there are many different kinds of brasses too.

If you actually look at the CB website, it says Brass. But "brass" is a
generic term, encompassing a variety brasses. They could even use it to
identify a copper nickel alloy to keep people from asking dumb questions.

So they just say "brass".

There is a handheld radiological mass spectrometer that I tried
convincing our company to buy to certify coils, and if I had succeeded,
I most certainly would have told you guys what's exactly in the cleats.

Quoted message said:

In his post, Boyle M. Owl speculates that they may be made
of Marinel. I am not familiar with that alloy, but Mr. Owl seems to know
his metals, so I am willing to believe him.

Google is your friend:

http://www.langleyalloys.co.uk/marinel_index.asp

Disclaimer: I am not a metallurgist. I am a toolmaker in a perforating
company, where we deal with everything from really inexpensive
hot-rolled steels to titanium, Inconel and other nickel alloys,
proprietary plastics, and just about anything other than wood. If
you're looking for the opinion of a metallurgist, I suggest MSI Inc in
Providence RI or any other lab and heat treater.

--
BMO

Leo Lichtman said:

JD wrote: I don't see how you guys ride around with those things.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Phil wrote: What "things" are you specifically referring to?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Phil, I guess you're not a Seinfeld fan, are you?

There was a slight reference to the Sein, though I was talking about
clipless pedals in general.

JD