Shimano chain question

Neal said:

I just got a used very low mileage bike with a Shimano Ultegra 10 drive
train. I noticed the chain is connected opposite of what Shimano
recommends. The connecting pin is on the trailing part of the link
instead of the forward position. Is this anything to be concerned
about?

if you believe shimano's own literature, yes! download their tech
manual on the chain and it'll tell you the joint strength difference iirc.

Quoted message said:

I have a Wipperman connecting link from my Campagnolo 10 setup
(not the ultra narrow chain). Can this be used with Shimano? This is
my first experience with Shimano after riding Campy equiped bikes since
1974.

Neal said:

I just got a used very low mileage bike with a Shimano Ultegra 10 drive
train. I noticed the chain is connected opposite of what Shimano
recommends. The connecting pin is on the trailing part of the link instead
of the forward position. Is this anything to be concerned about? I have a
Wipperman connecting link from my Campagnolo 10 setup (not the ultra narrow
chain). Can this be used with Shimano? This is my first experience with
Shimano after riding Campy equiped bikes since 1974.

I just looked at one of my bikes and it is setup as yours is. I never
noticed. It has survived my 230lbs stomping up hills no problems. I
wouldn't worry about it. I believe the Wipperman links are of
marginally different widths for Campy or Shimano 10-speed. I'd ratehr
have the un-approved Shimano pin than a wrong sized Wipperman. I've
used the Wipperman on my Ultegra (6600) bike and it seems to me like
it made a lot of noise and caught the front derailleur a bit, so I
dropped it.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I just got a used very low mileage bike with a Shimano Ultegra 10

drive

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

train. I noticed the chain is connected opposite of what Shimano
recommends. The connecting pin is on the trailing part of the link instead
of the forward position. Is this anything to be concerned about?

Speaking as someone who has snapped an Ultegra 10 chain, I would
proceed with caution (regardless of how it is put together). The
chain I snapped only had about 1000 miles on it, but I can't verify if
it had anything to do with how the chain was attached (it came with
the bike and I knew nothing about 10-speed drivetrains or orientation
of pins at the time). Suspiciously, the offending link was adjacent
to the original connecting pin but the pin was not the point of
failure. The fact that I was gearing up going up a hill was likely a
contributing factor, even though I do make a conscious effort to
reduce the load when up-shifting.

Quoted message said:

I just looked at one of my bikes and it is setup as yours is. I never
noticed. It has survived my 230lbs stomping up hills no problems. I
wouldn't worry about it. I believe the Wipperman links are of
marginally different widths for Campy or Shimano 10-speed. I'd ratehr
have the un-approved Shimano pin than a wrong sized Wipperman. I've
used the Wipperman on my Ultegra (6600) bike and it seems to me like
it made a lot of noise and caught the front derailleur a bit, so I
dropped it.

Uggh. Not what I want to hear...I just bought a couple of these links
and was really hoping that they would solve some of my (very dirty)
drivetrain issues. Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to install
one yet...a couple of same-day blowouts have forced me onto my 8-speed
steed. I've had great success with 8/9 speed PowerLinks. Cleaning up
my MTBs is a snap with these things (well, more like a twist, but I
digress...)

Cheers,
Dave

David Bonnell said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I just got a used very low mileage bike with a Shimano Ultegra 10

drive

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

train. I noticed the chain is connected opposite of what Shimano
recommends. The connecting pin is on the trailing part of the link instead
of the forward position. Is this anything to be concerned about?

Speaking as someone who has snapped an Ultegra 10 chain, I would
proceed with caution (regardless of how it is put together). The
chain I snapped only had about 1000 miles on it, but I can't verify if
it had anything to do with how the chain was attached (it came with
the bike and I knew nothing about 10-speed drivetrains or orientation
of pins at the time). Suspiciously, the offending link was adjacent
to the original connecting pin but the pin was not the point of
failure. The fact that I was gearing up going up a hill was likely a
contributing factor, even though I do make a conscious effort to
reduce the load when up-shifting.

Quoted message said:

I just looked at one of my bikes and it is setup as yours is. I never
noticed. It has survived my 230lbs stomping up hills no problems. I
wouldn't worry about it. I believe the Wipperman links are of
marginally different widths for Campy or Shimano 10-speed. I'd ratehr
have the un-approved Shimano pin than a wrong sized Wipperman. I've
used the Wipperman on my Ultegra (6600) bike and it seems to me like
it made a lot of noise and caught the front derailleur a bit, so I
dropped it.

Uggh. Not what I want to hear...I just bought a couple of these links
and was really hoping that they would solve some of my (very dirty)
drivetrain issues. Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to install
one yet...a couple of same-day blowouts have forced me onto my 8-speed
steed. I've had great success with 8/9 speed PowerLinks. Cleaning up
my MTBs is a snap with these things (well, more like a twist, but I
digress...)

Cheers,
Dave

Cleaning the chain was a messy enough job that I did it infrequently
anyway even with the added ease of the Wipperman. So the noise was
enough to get me to go back. The catching the der, and the sometimes
hugely loud CLONK when shifting in the rear was the deal breaker.
YMMV.

Joseph

Neal said:

I just got a used very low mileage bike with a Shimano Ultegra 10 drive
train. I noticed the chain is connected opposite of what Shimano
recommends. The connecting pin is on the trailing part of the link instead
of the forward position. Is this anything to be concerned about? I have a
Wipperman connecting link from my Campagnolo 10 setup (not the ultra narrow
chain). Can this be used with Shimano? This is my first experience with
Shimano after riding Campy equiped bikes since 1974.

Take the link out that has the shimano pin in it, get a narrow
Wipperman link. The wider one(6.2mm) will work but the proper one will
be more secure.

David Bonnell said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I just got a used very low mileage bike with a Shimano Ultegra 10

drive

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

train. I noticed the chain is connected opposite of what Shimano
recommends. The connecting pin is on the trailing part of the link instead
of the forward position. Is this anything to be concerned about?

Speaking as someone who has snapped an Ultegra 10 chain, I would
proceed with caution (regardless of how it is put together). The
chain I snapped only had about 1000 miles on it, but I can't verify if
it had anything to do with how the chain was attached (it came with
the bike and I knew nothing about 10-speed drivetrains or orientation
of pins at the time). Suspiciously, the offending link was adjacent
to the original connecting pin but the pin was not the point of
failure. The fact that I was gearing up going up a hill was likely a
contributing factor, even though I do make a conscious effort to
reduce the load when up-shifting.

Quoted message said:

I just looked at one of my bikes and it is setup as yours is. I never
noticed. It has survived my 230lbs stomping up hills no problems. I
wouldn't worry about it. I believe the Wipperman links are of
marginally different widths for Campy or Shimano 10-speed. I'd ratehr
have the un-approved Shimano pin than a wrong sized Wipperman. I've
used the Wipperman on my Ultegra (6600) bike and it seems to me like
it made a lot of noise and caught the front derailleur a bit, so I
dropped it.

Uggh. Not what I want to hear...I just bought a couple of these links
and was really hoping that they would solve some of my (very dirty)
drivetrain issues. Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to install
one yet...a couple of same-day blowouts have forced me onto my 8-speed
steed. I've had great success with 8/9 speed PowerLinks. Cleaning up
my MTBs is a snap with these things (well, more like a twist, but I
digress...)

Cheers,
Dave

We have sold dozens of these links for shimano and Campagnolo 10s
chains and have not seen what was mentioned...so YMMV, but we think
they work great.

jim beam said:

Neal said:

I just got a used very low mileage bike with a Shimano Ultegra 10 drive
train. I noticed the chain is connected opposite of what Shimano
recommends. The connecting pin is on the trailing part of the link
instead of the forward position. Is this anything to be concerned
about?

if you believe shimano's own literature, yes! download their tech
manual on the chain and it'll tell you the joint strength difference iirc.

Hi,
Do you have a link? I was searching for this the other day but only
found the end user manual, which says to do it but nothing else.
I've tried to work out *why*, but I'm not sure if this is the right
reason. The forces on the leading pins are "ballanced": opposite forces
from the inner and outer plates, and from teeth (via the rollers) in the
same direction as the outer plates, but the forces on trailing pins are
unballanced, with the force from the teeth in the opposite direction
from the outer plates creating a lever effect (you'd probably want to
draw a diagram). And it's not cancelled out by the front chainring
because there are more teeth hence lower force per tooth.
Is that correct?

Laurence

"Laurence Darby" <ldarby.tuffmail@com> wrote in message
news:20070911175539.12713d02.ldarby.tuffmail@com...

Quoted message said:

jim beam said:

Neal said:

I just got a used very low mileage bike with a Shimano Ultegra 10 drive
train. I noticed the chain is connected opposite of what Shimano
recommends. The connecting pin is on the trailing part of the link
instead of the forward position. Is this anything to be concerned
about?

if you believe shimano's own literature, yes! download their tech
manual on the chain and it'll tell you the joint strength difference
iirc.

Hi,
Do you have a link? I was searching for this the other day but only
found the end user manual, which says to do it but nothing else.
I've tried to work out *why*, but I'm not sure if this is the right
reason. The forces on the leading pins are "ballanced": opposite forces
from the inner and outer plates, and from teeth (via the rollers) in the
same direction as the outer plates, but the forces on trailing pins are
unballanced, with the force from the teeth in the opposite direction
from the outer plates creating a lever effect (you'd probably want to
draw a diagram). And it's not cancelled out by the front chainring
because there are more teeth hence lower force per tooth.
Is that correct?

Laurence

I found information on Velonews about this. Lennard Zinn states:

"If you look closely at the photos, you will see that both mechanics are
putting the connector pin through the leading end of the outer link they are
connecting. In other words, when the connected outer link comes over the top
of a cog and is simultaneously engaging two cogs during a shift, the
connector pin will be the first one to move across the gap. The stress is
higher on the rear pin of the link, as it is being released from the
previous cog, so this choice ensures that the stronger, factory-installed
pin is in that position. When connecting the chain at the bottom as in the
photos, to make sure the connector pin leads over the cog, the connector pin
needs to be on the end of the outer link closer to the rear derailleur"

http://www.velonews.com/tour2005/tech/articles/8534.0.html

Neal

Laurence Darby said:

jim beam said:

Neal said:

I just got a used very low mileage bike with a Shimano Ultegra 10 drive
train. I noticed the chain is connected opposite of what Shimano
recommends. The connecting pin is on the trailing part of the link
instead of the forward position. Is this anything to be concerned
about?

if you believe shimano's own literature, yes! download their tech
manual on the chain and it'll tell you the joint strength difference iirc.

Hi,
Do you have a link? I was searching for this the other day but only
found the end user manual, which says to do it but nothing else.
I've tried to work out *why*, but I'm not sure if this is the right
reason. The forces on the leading pins are "ballanced": opposite forces
from the inner and outer plates, and from teeth (via the rollers) in the
same direction as the outer plates, but the forces on trailing pins are
unballanced, with the force from the teeth in the opposite direction
from the outer plates creating a lever effect (you'd probably want to
draw a diagram). And it's not cancelled out by the front chainring
because there are more teeth hence lower force per tooth.
Is that correct?

Laurence

http://bike.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/SI_08V0C/SI_08V0C_13_v1_m56577569830612411.pdf