shimano Di2

gmiles said:

I have Di2 on my Ridley Dean... exceeds all expectations mechanically, horrific aesthetically and therefore aerodynamically.
My question for the forum is can the wires be cut and re-soldered so that I can utilize the internal cable routing? For all I know they are fiber... hate to cut an optical link...

Buy a bike designed around the Di2 to achieve true happiness.. like the Storck.
Dean with Di2 is kinda like bolting a couch in the back of your pick up and calling it a prevost. 🙂

shimano makes an internal wiring harness but you need bigger holes in the frame to fish the wires thru and a big enough hole in the BB shell to get that internal wiring harness into.

correct—the issue with any electronic solution in this regard is the connector size. Mektronic uses two conductors, wires running from shifter to handlebar-mounted computer. Zap uses 4 conductors, running very similar to Di2, from handlebar area to rear derailleur. (I'm not sure how many conductors Di2 uses.) I sourced some extremely small diameter 4-conductor connectors for my Zap/Lotus install, which made it possible to route internally through the frame. Either way, snipping and soldering are in order; actually twice (one for each connector half) for the tiny connector retrofit option. But, using that option, it makes it quite easy to remove and re-install if needed.
In time, if the Di2 solution becomes pervasive enough, and if the cost is not too high to warrant a 'larger hole in the frame' option, we'll see those in the near future. That'll be the easiest solution, although it requires some waiting. There'll be plugs of some sort for the folks who don't use the option.
Personally, I believe the next-gen frames of the bulk of mfrs. will allow this. I don't see any downside to having slightly larger holes in the frame, if correctly located in lower stress areas. I'm not so sure we'll see Di2-only designs, such as the Storck. There'll be a few specialty/high-end types. Adoption in this area will simply open the frame design up to a wider market.
This is just another migration on the part of frame design to latest component tech (similar to introducing the small 'square' on the downtube lever mounts to enable index shifting; then eliminating them altogether; then introducing ‘scrub shields’ for the extra cable set near the head tube, etc.).

[lang=es]lang [= es] [Cita = gmiles; 3935352] Tengo en mi Di2 Ridley Dean ... SUPERA TODAS LAS Expectativas mecánicamente, horrores y estéticamente Por lo Tanto aerodinámicamente. [B] Mi Pregunta párr El Foro en sí pueden cortar los cables y Los Volver a soldar PARA QUE pueda utilizar El Cable interno de enrutamiento? [/ B] Por Lo Que se que hijo de Fibra ... Odio cortar un enlace de Fibra Óptica de las Naciones Unidas ... Comprar Una bicicleta diseñada En torno al párrafo Di2 Alcanzar la Verdadera Felicidad .. Como El Storck. Con Di2 Dean es Como Un poco espigado sin sofá en la instancia de parte posterior de Recogida y llamándolo a su especialista de las Naciones Unidas Prevost. 🙂 [/ Quote] Claro Se Puede yo lo hice Con Mi Que "LOOK 596", el vídeo en YouTube de las Naciones Unidas existe Donde lo Explica poniendo Como Ejemplo Una Flet: [url = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v = q6ga2ptxs28] YouTube - SHIMANO Di2 instalación personalizada de Felt DA [/ url]. Saludos PD Estós hijo Cambios maravilla UNA. [/ lang][/lang]

so how about a professional team with 9 riders and 9 spare bikes running Di2 out on a Grand Tour, a lot of power strips needed !
i'm guessing 3 batteries for each rider: 1 on the spare bike, 1 on the main bike, and 1 charging on the truck only to be swapped later on to the main bike every day,

IMO Shimano needs to greatly reduce the size of the servos to allow them to be installed directly into the derailleurs. This technology is still in it's infancy and has a long way to go before it is affordable and beneficial to the everyday cyclist. It belongs in the professional circuit so the bugs can be worked out.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by vspa [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

so how about a professional team with 9 riders and 9 spare bikes running Di2 out on a Grand Tour, a lot of power strips needed !
i'm guessing 3 batteries for each rider: 1 on the spare bike, 1 on the main bike, and 1 charging on the truck only to be swapped later on to the main bike every day,

They don't a lot of power strips. Batteries can be charged one after another and left to sit. I'd wager that most of the batteries in grand tours are only being charged on rest days since they otherwise don't need it during the week. The fact is that those batteries can last an entire tour without recharging, and batteries are easy to characterize.

Why? Both the Shimano and Campy derailleurs work and look fine. Making them smaller won't change much at all. I'd have Di2, Ui2, and EPS right now if it were an option, and given that both companies will be releasing more and lower spec e-grous, the time is approaching fairly rapidly when having one will be an option for a lot more folks. As it stands, these groups are as beneficial for pros as they are for recreational riders, just as most groups are. Certainly the bugs have been worked out, else they wouldn't have released the groups--and so many of them--to the public. Di2 has been out for three years, and now there's Ui2 (a sign that Shimano is pretty damned confident in their technology) which has very few changes from Di2. Who knows how long Shimano had Di2 under wraps before release. Campy has been working on an e-group for about 20 years and have now released two simultaneously. I'd say after 20 years, they're fairly confident they've got things worked out.

I frankly could care less how big any servo is because as it stands the weight difference between mechanical and e-groups isn't even worth discussing, and besides, I don't really look at the derailleurs when I'm on the bike. Waiting for prices to come down is a worthy argument, but I don't think any of the e-groups lack anything when it comes to tech.

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" The Di2 battery lasts from between 600 miles (lots of shifting in cold, cold weather) up to 1,500 miles between charges, but we're told 1,000 miles is a pretty safe interval they've been getting in pre-release tests. There is no "charge memory" in the battery, so you can recharge it as often as you like, though Shimano recommends once a week or so if you're a daily rider. They say the battery can go 300 charge cycles at 100% integrity; charging once a week means almost six years. After the 300 cycles, its charge will be somewhat diminished, though pretty good. Once the battery is empty, it takes 1.5 hours for the battery to receive a complete charge "

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ok it could work if this is the truth,
im a bit skeptic because of notebook computers performance with the battery on, they tell you it should last 4 to 6 hours when it actually deplenish in 2 hours....
cell phones on the other hand do better,

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by vspa [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

ok it could work if this is the truth,
im a bit skeptic because of notebook computers performance with the battery on, they tell you it should last 4 to 6 hours when it actually deplenish in 2 hours....
cell phones on the other hand do better,

That's understandable, but notebook battery life can vary greatly depending on what you're doing and what apps are running in the background. The batteries for e-groups have a relatively simple life. I'll bet teams have spreadsheets documenting how many times a given battery has been charged, when it's been charged, and likely other parameters. When I was a medic the batteries we used in portable defibrillators had such information, except the spreadsheets were 8.5 x 11" and made from wood pulp, not semi-conductors. On the battery front, things are only going to get better because battery tech has been and is continuing to progress at a torrid rate. It wasn't long ago that things like iPads or MacBook Airs would have even been possible. I know that are universities and several companies even researching miniature fuel cells as batteries, with one company, I believe, having made a watch powered by a miniature fuel cell. It could be that one day the battery for these groups will be a fuel cell, maybe the size of notebook paper or smaller, rolled up and put in seat tube. Possibly the more likely future will have the power and brain for an e-group located in a head unit (i.e. bike computer)

I think it's good that in the preceding 20 years, Campy or Shimano didn't release an e-group. I don't think the nexus of technology and cost hasn't been right until the last few years. I think the market response has been pretty damned good and has supported the idea that customers are ready for this. Frankly, I can't wait to see what effect EPS has on the mechanical Campy groups. I'm hoping it'll drive those down a bit. I definitely think that within 12 -24 months we're going to see a 105 level e-group from Shimano and Chorus and Athena level groups from Campy.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by toomanybikes [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Another product designed to separate the gullible from their dollars - strictly my opinion mind you.

And I'm sure that was once said about the freewheel.[IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Thirty years ago or so a 99 percenter like me could afford to build up a pro level bike without blowing spending the kid's college savings. Now those bikes are strictly for the sponsored or the 1 percent.

Di2 is slick, but 7800 is still a heck of a lot slicker than what we used in 1980.

I'm just waiting for Campy to release a 'cheap' electric group.

I moved to the 11-speed 'latest & greatest' for 2012 and will gladly try the electric stuff when the price comes down a bit and the beta tester factor is reduced a bit more.

When the carbon stuff became more durable and less pricey I dropped the retro objections and gave it a go. Now, the electrically-actuated shifting definitely has my interest piqued. It's only the price factor that's holding me back. That and the fact that Barney isn't driving alongside me with several spare bikes to throw at me if my EPS fails during one of our fierce club runs!