shin Splints?

Jim Butler said:

I have been running my whole life. I stopped for awhile and got what I consider fat. 20-25 lbs
over weight. I am in the gym 2 times a day. cardio in the morning weights in the afternoon. I have
been fighting shin splints for almost a year now. I can run on a tread mill about 3 miles a day
but after 2-3 weeks I get shin pain. It comes faster out on the road.

Just a thought - what brand/model shoes do you wear and how do you know if they are the right shoe
for your mechanics?

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]

[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for
details. ]]

In article said:

I have been running my whole life. I stopped for awhile and got what I consider fat. 20-25 lbs
over weight. I am in the gym 2 times a day. cardio in the morning weights in the afternoon. I have
been fighting shin splints for almost a year now. I can run on a tread mill about 3 miles a day
but after 2-3 weeks I get shin pain. It comes faster out on the road.

I consider my self to be in good not great shape. Most days I can run farther then 3 miles (21
minutes) but do to the lunch break I don't have time.

If it helps I am 6'3 and 235lbs. I have a large muscled frame. 54" suite coat and a 36" waist.

Can anyone help me stop the shin pain? I also stretch like crazy. I am on a nation karate team.

thanks Jim

Jim,

Here's some folklore that may be of help in understanding your shin splints. Also if you're
running and landing first on the back of the heel of the shoe, that you're overstriding and every
step is a stop.

Also relax your toes.

In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer - rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon
Clinic, est. 1975

Mindful Running: mindfulness.commr.aspOpen ↗ faqs.orgrunning faqOpen ↗

Some folklore on shin splints and ways to think about what causes shin splints. A different way to
think about shin splints and some things to do about them.

Healing Shin Splint Folklore and Prevention by Austin Gontang, September 25, 2000

You can help me get better. I need you to rate my articles and their usefulness to you. Click the
appropriate rating circle at the bottom of the articles. Your comments are appreciated and necessary
to keep me rethinking my folklore and continue my lifelong learning. Ozzie

I continue to believe that the shin spints come more from the overstride and the deceleration and
then the overstretch of the shin which should be relaxing but hasn't had time. It is then being
stretched by the contracting calf muscle. For me I define an overstride as landing on the back of
the heel of the shoe. If I were jumping up and down, I would never land on the heels of my shoes nor
on my heels if I were barefoot. So why run landing on the heels...and by this I mean the back of the
heels if one were barefoot.

For me the image remains that as I place my foot under my center of gravity, the rest of my body is
catapulted forward from that platform. This means that the calf contracting isn't pushing the entire
body weight forward. The body weight has been catapulted forward by the glut/ham on the planted
foot(the platform), the thrust forward of the elbow/shoulder of the platform side and the quad/psoas
of the leg coming through to conterbalance the torque of the platform side.

Anyway here, as you mentioned would show up in a few days, some of the shin splint folklore which I
have shared with several thousand people over the past 2 decades. In case you didn't see the post
above or didn't get others on your ISP, I've compiled them:

Shin Splint Folklore by Ozzie
c. 2000 Austin "Ozzie" Gontang, Ph.D.

Folklore #1

Shin splints are from the posterior and anterior tibilis getting tight and holding on and not
letting go. Every step becomes a pain in the shins when running. Remember that the problem may be
the calf muscles which means the shins have to work against muscles which only partially relax
putting all kinds of strain on the shin. See article mentioned in #3 below.

As you run, walk, let your toes relax. Often going up on the toes means the shin is being
elongated...and if it is tight and holding on, the calves have to overcome the tightness in the
shins...gradually the shins from being overstretched, tighten even more...and then your body
realizes that it is even difficult to walk.

As you stand during your day practice standing so that you can wiggle your toes at all times. Lean
forward and notice how the toes dig in. That posture can also be a problem spot for the shins which
get chronically tight and the running when the shins should be relaxing...that is when the calves
are contracting...the shins only partially relax and the pain is that of ripping a muscle that
doesn't want to let go.

The ultimate muscle though which we have all passed goes from 0 cm to 10 cm. Now you realize the
need to focus on relaxing as the crown pushes against that muscle attempting to force it to go to 10
cm too quickly. Breathing and relaxing can relax against that pressure. For the shins, it's also
teaching the shins to let go. Everyone (except a few of us) attempt to strengthen and make the shin
stronger rather than release the tightened and bound shin muscles.

Folklore #2

Get on all fours on a carpeted floor with the feet off the edge of a step. Place a tennis ball under
one anterior tibialis. Keep most of the weight on the other knee and hands. Move foot easily up and
down as you put more pressure on the tennis ball and roll it slowly over the belly of the shin
muscle. Do the other foot the same way. See which foot is giving you the most pain.

Folklore #3a

See mindfulness.comof1.aspOpen ↗. Face the railing. Turn the feet and entire body so that it
is 45 degrees to the bar. Place the anterior shin over the bar so that the shin muscle and NOT the
shin bone rest on the rail. If rail is too high, use the middle rail. Slowly make a small circle
with the foot and slowly slide the shin down the railing. Do once or twice and then switch, facing
the rail but turning 45 degrees in the other direction to do your other shin.

Remember if you go too hard, too fast, too much, you'll only end up causing added problems as your
muscle will tighten up even more to protect itself from your intensity. Go for the grace.

Also remember that folklore means that if something doesnt' work for you, give it no power or energy
but rather find someone who makes sense and whose folklore works for you.

Folklore #3b

One thing I've found over the years is that the peroneus, the muscle which runs down the outside of
the leg - it everts the outside of the foot - often gets pulled and to protect itself it tightens-
i.e. shortens. After the healing of the ligaments around the ankle, that peroneus (longus and medius
portion) can remain in its semi-contracted state. which means it doesn't fully relax when the
posterior tibialis - its counterpart - lifts the inside of the foot up.

Way to loosen it with someone else helping.

Have your partner start about 3 inches above the ankle bone. Hold as if you are going to strangle -
fingers wrap around the lower leg, thumbs pointing toward each other or one thumb rests on the other
thumb (if more pressure is desired).

Have your partner use light pressure by pushing in with theirthumbs as you make a small (emphasis on
small), smooth (emphasis on smooth) circle. As you makes small smooth circles with the foot your
partner strangling your leg, slowly slides the thumbs up the peroneus muscle.

The idea is that you can loosen the muscle from any adhesions and also you can loosen up the fascia
which may be holding the peroneus from relaxing and going through it full range of motion.

Usually after 3 or 4 times of small circles and your partner holding, walk. More often than not,
you'll feel less pressure around the ankle as it can move more freely due to the freeing of the
peroneus higher up the leg...which takes the tightness off the ankle area.

The peroneus and posterior tibialis are often called stirrup muscles as they invert and evert the
foot. They are also postural muscles and therefore slow twitch, in that they help maintain correct
posture when functioning properly.

To do the same thing, face a railing with a middle railing (see picture from web site). Turn your
body 45 degrees and place the peroneus side of the leg on the bar, usually the lower is better
unless you're very tall. Do the same foot movement as mentioned above to loosen the peroneus and the
fascia which may be constricting the ankle for its full range of motion.

Get back to us and let us know how it works. The web site picture where I have a group of people
using the railing to loosen the belly of the calf muscle, gives you an idea of how to use the
railing. The railing you want to use is the middle railing: mindfulness.comof1.aspOpen ↗

Folklore #3c

Quoted message said:

I have for the last couple of weeks had a pain just above my right inside

ankle. If I hold up my leg and roll my foot to the inside, it causes the ankle to hurt. Snip-----

If I had that pain I'd look first to see if the posterior tibialis had tightened up in response to
the hill work.

Second, I'd have the "deep tissue cross friction message" read: "Please do some work on my peroneus,
especially the longus; and show me a few ways of how I might do that myself."

Quoted message said:

From what you've said, I'd look at my form to see where I was landing on my

foot. I have been a strong proponent for ball/heel or midsole landing. That way I know that there is
no overstride. Probably you're getting some overstride in you heavy workout, which causes the
braking effect and causes the problem you mention.

Folklore #4

I'd look at the posterior tibialis, that muscle behind the shin bone on the inside.

1. You are seated
2. Left leg crossed on right thigh so outside of left leg rests on right thigh about 3 or 4 inches
above right knee.
3. place right thumb below left shin bone closest to you so it rests on the posterior tibialis
4. Right hand rest on the shin bone.
5. Place the left hand next to the right hand on the shin bone so that the left thumb rests on top
of the right thumb.
6. Make small (emphasis on small) and smooth (emphasis on smooth) circles with the left foot so
there is no (spelled NO) jerkiness - otherwise you're just straining tendon.
7. As you make the circle and the left toe goes downward, push in with the thumbs. With each circle
move the thumbs about a quarter of an inch further up the leg.
8. Find the spot that creates most pain and push more lightly at that spot so as not to create
excrutiating pain and then move thumbs away first upward and then away downward, pushing harder
so that you can feel the muscle under your thumbs let go.
9. If you push too hard, go too fast, wince the face, stop breathing because of the pain, go too
deep, you'll get the reverse of what you want.
10. What you want is that posterior tibialis to let go so that your circle can move easily. Usually
if it is bruised, the blood came from up above where the muscle tear took place and gravity let
it settle where the bruise is.
11. You'd like also to make sure that the posterior tibialis is not flush up again the shin bone.
There should be some space where your thumb can go up that groove between the posterior shin
muscle and the shin bone.

Orgradually work to get it back, since if it's not there, then your shin is holding and probably the
fascia won't allow the muscle to go through its range of motion and also the micro tears of the
muscle or at the muscle tendon junction of the posterior shin muscle has scarred and also decreases
the range of motion for the posterior shin.

Let us know how it goes and what you learn so that we can all learn if my folklore worked for you,
or was just folklore that needed to be discarded because it didn't work.

Good luck with your experiment of one. Also during my training runs I often stop and work shins,
calves, haves and quads loose so that my training run might be broken up by 10 or 12 stops to
massage out or rub out the sore spots.

Check out the two articles listed and especially the pictures. I can use almost anything along my
running path to assist me as a tool to release or massage tight muscles:

mindfulness.comof1.aspOpen ↗ mindfulness.comof5.aspOpen ↗

Ozzie Gontang said:

Here's some folklore that may be of help in understanding your shin splints

Or...

Here's some nonsense that an uneducated fool may mistake for knowledge...

Oz, I want you to stop this, and I want you to stop it NOW. Can I be frank? You are not, never have
been, nor ever will be, a running guru. That market has been cornered, beaten to a pulp, and left
for dead in the corner of a darkened alley. You may have a pheriphal role within the running
community as a post-boom piece of flotsam, but your time would be better spent sharpening pencils at
your local community college. In short, you lack relevance to the hight-tech, gel-fueled, online
running community of today.

What they need - and what they've got - is me. Make way for the next generation of running gods. We
have cynicism, anger and futility on our side. You simply can't compete..

Ozzie Gontang said:

Also if you're running and landing first on the back of the heel of the shoe, that you're
overstriding and every step is a stop.

I posted here a couple of weeks back about altering my stride from a mild heel strike to a midfoot
strike. I was doing this specifically in an attempt to rid myself of "shinsplints". I will say that
in the last two weeks my shinsplints have essentially disappeared. The right leg is completely pain
free, and the left leg is probably 95%. I'm amazed, though admittedly it has been only a couple of
weeks. I'd not go so far as to suggest this to the original poster, but clearly in my case, it had a
dramatic effect.

-Fountainhead

In article <[email hidden]>, I could be

lying said:

Ozzie Gontang said:

Here's some folklore that may be of help in understanding your shin splints

Or...

Here's some nonsense that an uneducated fool may mistake for knowledge...

Oz, I want you to stop this, and I want you to stop it NOW. Can I be frank? You are not, never
have been, nor ever will be, a running guru. That market has been cornered, beaten to a pulp, and
left for dead in the corner of a darkened alley. You may have a pheriphal role within the running
community as a post-boom piece of flotsam, but your time would be better spent sharpening pencils
at your local community college. In short, you lack relevance to the hight-tech, gel-fueled,
online running community of today.

What they need - and what they've got - is me. Make way for the next generation of running gods.
We have cynicism, anger and futility on our side. You simply can't compete..

I believe that "guru" is translated teacher. I am not a teacher so I would not consider myself a
"guru." I have and continued to share my folklore of what works for me and for others who have
played with the ideas and concepts. I have realized from early on that I can teach no one anything.
I can share what I've learned with others. They in turn can teach themselves as to what works and
doesn't work for them.

Not being listed among the generation of running gods; I am interested in you as the next generation
of running gods.

I am interested in seeing your godness who calls his creatures "flotsam" and must tear down
to build up.

I am interested in observing your godness who comes forth with cynicism, anger and futility.

I am interested in your godness who has forgotten, not remembered or chosen to forget that "compete"
means to seek with.

I am interested in your godness and what you will share with the on line running community both
those who are and those who are not high tech and gel-fueled.

In addition to practice, many of us here at rec.running have learned to fast, meditate and wait. We
have chosen the path of the endurance athlete: one whose life is about enduring.

I look forward to what you can share with the running community

Namaste.

In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer - rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon
Clinic, est. 1975

Mindful Running: mindfulness.commr.aspOpen ↗ faqs.orgrunning faqOpen ↗

Ozzie Gontang said:

Not being listed among the generation of running gods; I am interested in you as the next
generation of running gods.

Then we share a common interest. Me.

Quoted message said:

I am interested in seeing your godness who calls his creatures "flotsam" and must tear down to
build up.

Destruction can be constructive, if you destroy what is flawed.

Quoted message said:

I am interested in observing your godness who comes forth with cynicism, anger and futility.

From such base emotions greatness may flower. You'll just have to sit quietly and observe,
won't you?

Quoted message said:

I am interested in your godness who has forgotten, not remembered or chosen to forget that
"compete" means to seek with.

I forget nothing. My recall is selective, that's all.

Quoted message said:

I am interested in your godness and what you will share with the on line running community both
those who are and those who are not high tech and gel-fueled.

Share? Who said anything about sharing? Go do you own seeking. I'll provide sketch maps and a some
friendly advice, though it may be wrapped in a cloak of satire or hidden under a blanket of irony.

Quoted message said:

In addition to practice, many of us here at rec.running have learned to fast, meditate and wait. We
have chosen the path of the endurance athlete: one whose life is about enduring.

The life of an endurace althlete is not *based* on endurance; rather it's a life based on goal-
setting, planning and achievement. It's a life of effort, dedication and reward. It isn't driven by
external factors, it's related to inner motivation. Fasting, meditation or waiting have no place in
this life. They stifle and suffocate the spirit.

Quoted message said:

I look forward to what you can share with the running community

Yeah, so do I.

I could be lying wrote: []

Quoted message said:

What they need - and what they've got - is me. Make way for the next generation of running gods.
We have cynicism, anger and futility on our side. You simply can't compete..

Futility is right. When will you abandon your futile attempts at posing as a runner.

More importantly, when will you get off your computer and go out to run?

--
Ed Prochak running faqs.orgrunning faqOpen ↗ netiquette psg.comemily.htmlOpen ↗
--
"Two roads diverged in a wood and I
I took the one less travelled by
and that has made all the difference."
robert frost

In article <[email hidden]>, I could be

lying said:

Then we share a common interest. Me.

Hmmmm. Sounds, feels and reads like a Roger Hunter to me.

If it is or if it isn't, I had replied to sydenhams.chorea and was bounced back. A few days ago I
realized that the newsgroup server had my email address on sbcglobal. I didn't catch it so when I
went to sbcglobal I had email from May, 2003 on, plus a full bulk mail of spam. Sydenhams September
15th email did not get to me until I was finally able to open the sbcglobal mail browser.

So if this is Roger or if Roger is reading this, let me know your email address so I can respond.

In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer - rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon
Clinic, est. 1975

Mindful Running: mindfulness.commr.aspOpen ↗ faqs.orgrunning faqOpen ↗

Edward J. Prochak said:

Futility is right. When will you abandon your futile attempts at posing as a runner.

Speaking now in the singular, rather than as a troll team member, I must protest your comments. *I*
do run. You must begin the painful process of disassociating *my* comments from those of my
predecessors.

Think of it this way. In the past you were being taken for a ride. You had no control of the driver,
nor the direction in which you were being driven. Now, you're beiong asked - somewhat impolitely,
but asked nevertheless - if you'd mind having a surly, petulant, but loyal companion on your
journey. Spot the difference?

Just don't anticipate any significant change in my basically cynical view of y'all.

Quoted message said:

importantly, when will you get off your computer and go out to run?

In about one hour.

Ozzie Gontang said:

Hmmmm. Sounds, feels and reads like a Roger Hunter to me.

I'm only one fifth of the original troll team that brought you such delights as "Roger Hunter", et
al., but as that team has moved on to pastures new I thought I'd stick around. Teasing you lot has a
certain theraputic quality which I find ...well...theraputic. Plus, I miss Matthew. Where *is* he?

Quoted message said:

So if this is Roger or if Roger is reading this, let me know your email address so I can respond.

I feel that one-to-one exchanges may break down the veneer of disdain and contempt that lies between
us This would be counter-productive to my desired role as rec.runnings 'bad boy'.

If you wish to offer a response to anything I've said, here is as good a place as any.

Quoted message said:

I can share what I've learned with others. They in turn can teach themselves as to what works and
doesn't work for them.

Oz, I for one, appreciate what you do for our sport.

You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it himself.

~Galileo

In article <[email hidden]>, I could be

lying said:

Ozzie Gontang said:

Hmmmm. Sounds, feels and reads like a Roger Hunter to me.

I'm only one fifth of the original troll team that brought you such delights as "Roger Hunter",
et al., but as that team has moved on to pastures new I thought I'd stick around. Teasing you lot
has a certain theraputic quality which I find ...well...theraputic. Plus, I miss Matthew. Where
*is* he?

Quoted message said:

So if this is Roger or if Roger is reading this, let me know your email address so I can respond.

I feel that one-to-one exchanges may break down the veneer of disdain and contempt that lies
between us This would be counter-productive to my desired role as rec.runnings 'bad boy'.

If you wish to offer a response to anything I've said, here is as good a place as any.

If this is Roger, should I also post the email you sent to me privately?

In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer - rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon
Clinic, est. 1975

Mindful Running: mindfulness.commr.aspOpen ↗ faqs.orgrunning faqOpen ↗

Phil Margolies said:

Quoted message said:

I can share what I've learned with others. They in turn can teach themselves as to what works and
doesn't work for them.

Oz, I for one, appreciate what you do for our sport.

You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it himself.

~Galileo

Amen.

And back to the topic, I've had some good success with the Julstro method of applying pressure to
the shins. It's really helping to ease the swelling and pain.

Ironically, applying this method hurt most with what I thought was the asymptomatic shin. But the
pressure unearthed some sensitivity that I couldn't find by applying pressure along the bone with
my thumbs.

It hasn't magically cured me, but it is a very useful complement to the icing, and I will keep at it
when I resume running next week.

Scott

You're just a wave, you're not the water.

Ozzie Gontang said:

If this is Roger,

Have you not being paying attention? The driving force(s) behind "Roger" have left to create merry
mayhem in other parts of Usenet. I may go and rejoin my happy band of brothers one day, but this
whole trolling thing gets tiresome after a while, don'tcha think?

I am simply the 'voice' of "Roger", i.e. I typed our posts in my own words to provide consistency in
style and use of language.

Does that make me "Roger"? *shrug* You tell me. Personality is a difficult thing to
define, isn't it?

Quoted message said:

should I also post the email you sent to me privately?

I'm happy for you to act in this regard as you see fit.