Simeoni / LA tells it all

"Rude Dog" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

After the stage 18 fiasco, LA said about Simeoni who testified against Dr.
Ferrari;

"He's not a rider who thinks about other riders and the group in general."

In other words, if he was thinking of the other riders, he would keep his
mouth shut.

The reason LA's position is so telling is that if there is nothing to

hide,

Quoted message said:

why is LA so determined to shut people up?

It seems to me if there was nothing to hide, that will come out in

Ferrari's

Quoted message said:

trial, and in other investigations. Why does LA feel like he has to
suppress people like Lemond and Simeoni through thug like tactics and
threats? For the good of the sport? Unlikely. For the good of LA?
Likely.

Not that I appreciated what Lance did yesterday. I thought it was
completely boneheaded. But I don't understand why people can't understand
that, if a rider is alleged to be telling lies, it would be logical to want
to shut him up. And if the lies are damaging to the sport in general, those
who make their livelihood from the sport would support efforts to quiet
someone who is lying about the sport.

But it was clearly a boneheaded move because it fueled all this [censored] that
everybody must be doping and keeping this huge dark secret. I wish Lance
hadn't done it and I wish all of you doping wackos would go hunt for UFOs or
something.

Bob C.

<< But it was clearly a boneheaded move because it fueled all this [censored] that
everybody must be doping and keeping this huge dark secret. I wish Lance
hadn't done it and I wish all of you doping wackos would go hunt for UFOs or
something. >><BR><BR>

Please. People were going to use, and will always use, the drug stuff against
LA. There's nothing he can do about it. Trying to be nice and let others have
stage wins will not get him anything except "He didn't win because he
couldn't."

Simeoni, as I recall, talked a lot of [censored]. Well, he's out there on his bike
man to man with LA and he should back it up. Why not just win the stage and
put LA in his place?

Gingerale392 said:

<< But it was clearly a boneheaded move because it fueled all this [censored] that
everybody must be doping and keeping this huge dark secret. I wish Lance
hadn't done it and I wish all of you doping wackos would go hunt for UFOs or
something. >><BR><BR>

Please. People were going to use, and will always use, the drug stuff against
LA. There's nothing he can do about it. Trying to be nice and let others have
stage wins will not get him anything except "He didn't win because he
couldn't."

Simeoni, as I recall, talked a lot of [censored].

So, what did he talk?

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rude Dog" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

After the stage 18 fiasco, LA said about Simeoni who testified against

Dr.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ferrari;

"He's not a rider who thinks about other riders and the group in

general."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In other words, if he was thinking of the other riders, he would keep

his

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mouth shut.

The reason LA's position is so telling is that if there is nothing to

hide,

Quoted message said:

why is LA so determined to shut people up?

It seems to me if there was nothing to hide, that will come out in

Ferrari's

Quoted message said:

trial, and in other investigations. Why does LA feel like he has to
suppress people like Lemond and Simeoni through thug like tactics and
threats? For the good of the sport? Unlikely. For the good of LA?
Likely.

Not that I appreciated what Lance did yesterday. I thought it was
completely boneheaded. But I don't understand why people can't understand
that, if a rider is alleged to be telling lies, it would be logical to

want

Quoted message said:

to shut him up. And if the lies are damaging to the sport in general,

those

Quoted message said:

who make their livelihood from the sport would support efforts to quiet
someone who is lying about the sport.

It is appropriate to respond but that does not make *any* response
appropriate.

Quoted message said:

But it was clearly a boneheaded move because it fueled all this [censored] that
everybody must be doping and keeping this huge dark secret. I wish Lance
hadn't done it and I wish all of you doping wackos would go hunt for UFOs

or

Quoted message said:

something.

Bob C.

I don't appreciate what Lance did yesterday. What he did was totally
disrespectful to his peers and the sport in general. He made the whole race
look like a farce where he can do whatever he wants. It says nothing to me
one way or they other about doping, but it shoes Lance's character and lack
of respect. His arrogance is ruining my enjoyment of the Tour and I doubt I
am alone in that feeling. I wish he would apologize, but that would change
my whole image of Lance and create the sense that he might be a decent
person. Lance is a gifted and driven person and it gets ugly some times when
he reveals the dark side of what drives him.

Quoted message said:

I agree Chris. What a shocking brach of ettiquette!

Martha Stewart

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't appreciate what Lance did yesterday. What he did was totally
disrespectful to his peers and the sport in general. He made the whole

race

Quoted message said:

look like a farce where he can do whatever he wants. It says nothing to me
one way or they other about doping, but it shoes Lance's character and

lack

Quoted message said:

of respect. His arrogance is ruining my enjoyment of the Tour and I doubt

I

Quoted message said:

am alone in that feeling. I wish he would apologize, but that would change
my whole image of Lance and create the sense that he might be a decent
person. Lance is a gifted and driven person and it gets ugly some times

when

Quoted message said:

he reveals the dark side of what drives him.

zeno said:

I agree Chris. What a shocking brach of ettiquette!

Quoted message said:

Martha Stewart

I hear that she has been contracted to make all the red kites by hand for
next year's Tour!

Quoted message said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't appreciate what Lance did yesterday. What he did was totally
disrespectful to his peers and the sport in general. He made the whole

race

Quoted message said:

look like a farce where he can do whatever he wants. It says nothing to me
one way or they other about doping, but it shoes Lance's character and

lack

Quoted message said:

of respect. His arrogance is ruining my enjoyment of the Tour and I doubt

I

Quoted message said:

am alone in that feeling. I wish he would apologize, but that would change
my whole image of Lance and create the sense that he might be a decent
person. Lance is a gifted and driven person and it gets ugly some times

when

Quoted message said:

he reveals the dark side of what drives him.

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

completely boneheaded. But I don't understand why people can't understand
that, if a rider is alleged to be telling lies, it would be logical to

want

Quoted message said:

to shut him up.

Likewise, if it is alleged that rider(s) are using drugs and someone
receives a subpoena to court, you would want them to tell the truth right?
There is absolutely no proof that Simeoni is lying is there?

Rude Dog said:

After the stage 18 fiasco, LA said about Simeoni who testified against Dr.
Ferrari;

"He's not a rider who thinks about other riders and the group in general."

In other words, if he was thinking of the other riders, he would keep his
mouth shut.

The reason LA's position is so telling is that if there is nothing to hide,
why is LA so determined to shut people up?

It seems to me if there was nothing to hide, that will come out in Ferrari's
trial, and in other investigations. Why does LA feel like he has to
suppress people like Lemond and Simeoni through thug like tactics and
threats? For the good of the sport? Unlikely. For the good of LA?
Likely.

A TdF stage win puts cash in the winner's pocket. Simeoni is using that cash to bring Lance to court for claiming he was slandering Lance. Lance had the opportunity to keep cash out of Simeoni's pocket, and that's what he did. Follow the cash, and that's a big part of figuring out what's going on.

"Clovis Lark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

zeno said:

I agree Chris. What a shocking brach of ettiquette!

Quoted message said:

Martha Stewart

I hear that she has been contracted to make all the red kites by hand for
next year's Tour!

The kite will be the correct shade of red; not the current shade. She will
bill ASO the usual hourly prison labor rate of 15 cents per hour.

gntlmn said:

A TdF stage win puts cash in the winner's pocket. Simeoni is using
that cash to bring Lance to court for claiming he was slandering Lance.
Lance had the opportunity to keep cash out of Simeoni's pocket, and
that's what he did. Follow the cash, and that's a big part of figuring
out what's going on.

This is the most confused theory I heard for a long time.

Follow the money angle to any argument and 95% of the time you'll understand
why people did what they did ..... by Rush Limbaugh ..... the other 5% of
the time is explained by emotion.
"Ernst Noch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

gntlmn said:

A TdF stage win puts cash in the winner's pocket. Simeoni is using
that cash to bring Lance to court for claiming he was slandering Lance.
Lance had the opportunity to keep cash out of Simeoni's pocket, and
that's what he did. Follow the cash, and that's a big part of figuring
out what's going on.

This is the most confused theory I heard for a long time.

"Rude Dog" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

After the stage 18 fiasco, LA said about Simeoni who testified against Dr.
Ferrari;

"He's not a rider who thinks about other riders and the group in general."

In other words, if he was thinking of the other riders, he would keep his
mouth shut.

The reason LA's position is so telling is that if there is nothing to

hide,

Quoted message said:

why is LA so determined to shut people up?

Here's a clue - People's lives and careers can be ruined because of lying
allegations. Didn't we just see Mark French "confessing" about all of the
people that he was drugging with and he mentioned Graeme Brown who wasn't
even in the same state at the time.

What would lead you to beleive that someone that is caught using drugs is
going to then tell the truth about it?

Quoted message said:

It seems to me if there was nothing to hide, that will come out in

Ferrari's

Quoted message said:

trial, and in other investigations. Why does LA feel like he has to
suppress people like Lemond and Simeoni through thug like tactics and
threats? For the good of the sport? Unlikely. For the good of LA?
Likely.

Armstrong is making some $12 million a year mostly in advertising. He has
enough money in the bank that if he walks away tomorrow, his third
generation kids will still be making money off of him.

So please DO tell us what you know about what is "good" for Lance Armstrong.
This ought to be really good.

"Ernst Noch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Gingerale392 said:

<< But it was clearly a boneheaded move because it fueled all this [censored]

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

everybody must be doping and keeping this huge dark secret. I wish

Lance

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hadn't done it and I wish all of you doping wackos would go hunt for

UFOs or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

something. >><BR><BR>

Please. People were going to use, and will always use, the drug stuff

against

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

LA. There's nothing he can do about it. Trying to be nice and let

others have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

stage wins will not get him anything except "He didn't win because he
couldn't."

Simeoni, as I recall, talked a lot of [censored].

So, what did he talk?

He alleged that Dr. Ferrari PRESCRIBED various performance enhancing drugs
for him though he couldn't come up with any such written prescription. He
alleged that everyone he talked to recommended that he go to Ferrari for
drugs and implied that anyone that went to Ferrari was a druggy.

It is noteworthy that Ferrari was involved in developing the dope testing
methodology for the UCI. It is also noteworthy that the English translations
I heard about Dr. Ferrari's quotes differed somewhat from the latest
comments by Andy Hampsten. Andy said that Dr. Ferrari stated that EPO was
harmless and that it should be legalized. The translations I've seen quoted
Dr. Ferrari as saying that EPO was impossible to detect and since you
couldn't detect it, if you made it illegal only those willing to cheat would
use it, benefit from it and win with it. He implied that honest riders would
be the only ones to suffer if you made any undetectable drug illegal.

On the other hand, Andy speaks fluent Italian and perhaps heard a different
quote from Dr. Ferrari.

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rude Dog" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

After the stage 18 fiasco, LA said about Simeoni who testified against

Dr.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ferrari;

"He's not a rider who thinks about other riders and the group in

general."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In other words, if he was thinking of the other riders, he would keep

his

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mouth shut.

The reason LA's position is so telling is that if there is nothing to

hide,

Quoted message said:

why is LA so determined to shut people up?

Here's a clue - People's lives and careers can be ruined because of lying
allegations. Didn't we just see Mark French "confessing" about all of the
people that he was drugging with and he mentioned Graeme Brown who wasn't
even in the same state at the time.

What would lead you to beleive that someone that is caught using drugs is
going to then tell the truth about it?

Quoted message said:

It seems to me if there was nothing to hide, that will come out in

Ferrari's

Quoted message said:

trial, and in other investigations. Why does LA feel like he has to
suppress people like Lemond and Simeoni through thug like tactics and
threats? For the good of the sport? Unlikely. For the good of LA?
Likely.

Armstrong is making some $12 million a year mostly in advertising. He has
enough money in the bank that if he walks away tomorrow, his third
generation kids will still be making money off of him.

So please DO tell us what you know about what is "good" for Lance

Armstrong.

Quoted message said:

This ought to be really good.

It's Not About The Money--Really!
Every Dollar Counts
Sheryl and Me (apologies to Micheal Moore)
Just Buddies In The Bus
Don't Cry For Me, Roberto
Michele and Me
Climbing With Cialis
The Jealous Ones
Do'in The Double Sometime
My Hour Awaits
Hein and Me
Classic Me

Tom Kunich said:

He alleged that Dr. Ferrari PRESCRIBED various performance enhancing drugs
for him though he couldn't come up with any such written prescription. He
alleged that everyone he talked to recommended that he go to Ferrari for
drugs and implied that anyone that went to Ferrari was a druggy.

Come on, Tom, this is not talking [censored]. This is testifying in front of a
judge - at least I presume this is where he said what you write there.

LA then said that Simeoni was a liar (how can he now that?) and then got
sued.

I guess the poster I answered to confused Simeoni with Simoni, therefore
the babbling about winning the stage and putting LA in his place.

Whatever Ferrari does or does not, this doesn't directly translate for
him doing any bad with LA - or Simeoni insinuating this - so there's no
need for him to get up in arms about what Simeoni said in court. And for
Simeoni suing him - well - that can happen if you bigmouth in the press,
and he should let his lawyers deal with it.

In article <[email hidden]>,

B. Lafferty said:

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So please DO tell us what you know about what is "good" for Lance

Armstrong.

Quoted message said:

This ought to be really good.

It's Not About The Money--Really!
Every Dollar Counts
Sheryl and Me (apologies to Micheal Moore)
Just Buddies In The Bus
Don't Cry For Me, Roberto
Michele and Me
Climbing With Cialis
The Jealous Ones
Do'in The Double Sometime
My Hour Awaits
Hein and Me

Well, at least the publicity stills are already shot for this one.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2001/sep01/trackworlds/MGlance1.shtml

Quoted message said:

Classic Me

--
tanx,
Howard

So far, so good, so what?

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Quoted message said:

From: Ernst Noch

Quoted message said:

Come on, Tom, this is not talking [censored]. This is testifying in front of a
judge - at least I presume this is where he said what you write there.

So you don't think people (including DA's and defense

Quoted message said:

From: Ernst Noch

Quoted message said:

Come on, Tom, this is not talking [censored]. This is testifying in front of a
judge - at least I presume this is where he said what you write there

Well this makes twice for the inadvertent early send. Self admonishment
occurring.

OK

Finishing the thought:

Come on (etc.) you don't believe that prosecution and defense attorneys as well
as witnesses "testify [censored]" in front of a judge? Look to the number of
accused/convicted rapists and murderers who have had their convictions reversed
by DNA evidence. Extrapolate (including the still-unreversed cases lost to
money and power) to the general.

"Testimony" is just that. The judge don't mean nothin' and neither does the
oath on the bible. That's for intentional lying. Then, there's "witness
mistaken". That's where the DNA thing comes in handy, because sometimes hey,
that wasn't the man who raped that woman for all her certainty (assuming a
close look there).

Hell, I saw some jerk on a court TV show bragging on the post-case interview
about how he lied and got away with it. Fooled me, as well as the learned and
experienced judge. Easy. --TP

B. Lafferty said:

It's Not About The Money--Really!
Every Dollar Counts
Sheryl and Me (apologies to Micheal Moore)
Just Buddies In The Bus
Don't Cry For Me, Roberto
Michele and Me
Climbing With Cialis
The Jealous Ones
Do'in The Double Sometime
My Hour Awaits
Hein and Me
Classic Me

"I Want To Tell You"