Skipping queues

"Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Any tips, comments or opinions to share?

For me it's mostly :
Ride up the outside. Be extra careful. Watch out for doors and people
turning right/pulling u-turns (they'll do this without indicating).

Sometimes I'll use the inside - but only if I'm there already and there's
space.

cheers,
clive

Mark said:

Would
I be better riding up the right-hand side, between the queue and the
oncoming traffic?

Possibly; I mostly do this, as it means that I'm much more visible to
motorists that I'm overtaking (who are, or should be, used to
motorcycles filtering in such a manner). The only caveat is that I
won't do it if the queue has a habit of moving off quickly/unexpectedly,
as you'll suddenly find yourself stranded with 30mph+ traffic
undertaking /you/. Also motorists have a habit of swinging suddenly
into the kerb and stopping, or of passengers leaping out of passenger
doors; they don't expect bikes to be "undertaking".

Quoted message said:

What is the legal position on riding past a queue, on either side? I
couldn't find anything in a quick search of the highway code.

Permitted. However, if there is an accident that would otherwise have
been held to be the other party's fault, judges have been known to hold
the motorcyclist/cyclist partially to blame.

R.

Mark said:

...I also feel confident of
my ability to cycle up the inside of the traffic without falling onto a
car, though sometimes motorists block me or get angry as I do so.

That's quite understandable, many motorists have invested a huge amount
of time, effort and money to create these queues - and you just go and
ignore them? No respect!

But IIRC the law allows for the passing of stationary traffic if safe
to do so (not crossing solid white lines & stuff), and I think the HC
mentions something like "you may ... pass traffic on the left queuing
or slow moving traffic but you should not change lane in order to gain
an advantage"

sothach said:

But IIRC the law allows for the passing of stationary traffic if safe
to do so (not crossing solid white lines & stuff),

Crossing solid white lines is permitted. From HC rule 108:
"You may cross the line if necessary to pass a stationary vehicle, or
overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are
travelling at 10mph or less."

--
Danny Colyer <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
Subscribe to PlusNet <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/referral/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

There was a thread about this a while back.

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.rec.cycling/browse_frm/thread/555fc4b0bcabfaca/41d84e2950817724?tvc=1#41d84e2950817724

In summary, eveyone does it - just be careful.
Most of my near misses have been with pedestrians crossing the road between
the stationary vehicles.

Richard said:

Mark said:

Would I be better riding up the right-hand side, between the queue
and the oncoming traffic?

Possibly; I mostly do this, as it means that I'm much more visible to
motorists that I'm overtaking (who are, or should be, used to
motorcycles filtering in such a manner). The only caveat is that I
won't do it if the queue has a habit of moving off
quickly/unexpectedly, as you'll suddenly find yourself stranded with
30mph+ traffic undertaking /you/. Also motorists have a habit of
swinging suddenly into the kerb and stopping, or of passengers leaping
out of passenger doors; they don't expect bikes to be "undertaking".

Thanks. I'd more-or-less decided that it was safer to pass on the right
and the convincing arguments from this thread have me convinced.

Most queues I encounter are stationary - I wouldn't feel at all
comfortable passing anything moving at more than a snail's pace, and I
wouldn't try overtaking them a speed where I couldn't stop if I needed
to.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What is the legal position on riding past a queue, on either side? I
couldn't find anything in a quick search of the highway code.

Permitted. However, if there is an accident that would otherwise
have been held to be the other party's fault, judges have been known
to hold the motorcyclist/cyclist partially to blame.

I'll bear that in mind.

Thanks, everyone.

Mark said:

Most queues I encounter are stationary - I wouldn't feel at all
comfortable passing anything moving at more than a snail's pace, and I
wouldn't try overtaking them a speed where I couldn't stop if I needed
to.

Indeed, but also (viz queues moving off suddenly) being able to
accelerate safely into the gap to move back to the primary or secondary
position.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Permitted. However, if there is an accident that would otherwise
have been held to be the other party's fault, judges have been known
to hold the motorcyclist/cyclist partially to blame.

I've just remembered where I saw this, as I was trying to give a
reference first time round but forgot: CTC rag, a couple or so issues
ago, I think.

R.

Mark said:

Clearly I don't want to be stuck in a stationary
queue - that's why I'm on a bike and not in a car - but I don't want to
unduly annoy motorists or put myself in danger trying to get past.

Annoying motorists is half the fun. Use the lefthand side, the right or
even up the middle on dual carriageways. Use what ever is availiable to
you to keep moving forward. I'm always amazed by those sheep who sit in
traffic on their bikes, it's like they're enjoying sucking up the
exhaust fumes from the car in front.

Laters,

Marz

Clive George said:

For me it's mostly :
Ride up the outside. Be extra careful. Watch out for doors and people
turning right/pulling u-turns (they'll do this without indicating).

Sometimes I'll use the inside - but only if I'm there already and there's
space.

My suspicion is that the outside is (odd though it may seem) safer:
far less risk of being crushed by a left-turning vehicle (bendy buses,
lorries, vans, etc), and you are at much less risk of hitting
pedestrians who step off the kerb because, well, there is no kerb on
the outside. You do need to watch the lights, though, and make sure
you can merge back into traffic safely if it goes green and everyone
starts moving.

-dan

Quoted message said:

how best to deal with queues of traffic.

Quoted message said:

Any tips, comments or opinions to share?

Going up the left can be dodgy as oncoming traffic turning right often
cannot see you/don't see you. This is a danger even when you're in a bus
lane - they're let through by the nice cars queuing in the lane to your
right, but those same cars block you from view.

The solution, as always, is to ride defensively and make allowances for
this. Watch out for drivers slowing to let others cross their lane.

Riding up the right has similar problems, with right turning/U-turning cars
crossing your path with little or no warning. Riding some distance from
them gives you space to move, and riding at a slower pace gives you more
time to act. Again, good anticipation and defensive riding helps here. I
normally re-join the queue just before the traffic starts moving again so
I'm not 'stranded' in the middle of the road.

Which side you overtake/filter on depends on the road and traffic. Often
the left is impossible as they're too close to the curb, or the right may
have fast oncoming traffic and not enough space. Sometimes it just isn't
worth filtering, particularly if you won't make up much time, cause
inconvenience, or if you'll go between/alongside large vehicles (cyclist
sandwich).

I ride in central manchester along busy arterial routes and have never seen
any drivers showing anger or frustration at my filtering. If they are
they're either a right bunch of ***** or you're doing something wrong!

(I'm particularly surprised that they manoeuvre to block you progress.
Wouldn't this require them to use their mirrors?)

While coming up on the left, I've twice damaged front wheels on car
doors because passengers decided to abandon the (stationary) queue and
get out, without looking. Grey area as to who's at fault.

So now I overtake on the right, where it's much less likely that a door
will suddenly open. Though not impossible...

"Mark Thompson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

how best to deal with queues of traffic.

Quoted message said:

(I'm particularly surprised that they manoeuvre to block you progress.
Wouldn't this require them to use their mirrors?)

They can't really block your progress - the more they move to the left, the
more room on the right they leave.

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

in message <[email hidden]>, Mark

(') said:

What is the legal position on riding past a queue, on either side? I
couldn't find anything in a quick search of the highway code.

'When traffic is moving slowly in lanes' applies. You can legally pass
either side.

Quoted message said:

Any tips, comments or opinions to share?

Go up the outside of the queue, but only when it is safe to do so. The
risks of going up the inside are that

(i) A passenger may unexpectedly open the nearside door to get out of the
vehicle. This means a painful collision, at least.

(ii) A motor vehicle may turn across your path, possibly crushing you
between the vehicle and street furniture. I believe this sort of
incident is the largest single killer of cyclists in London.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; All in all you're just another nick in the ball
-- Think Droid

"While coming up on the left, I've twice damaged front wheels on car
doors because passengers decided to abandon the (stationary) queue and
get out, without looking. Grey area as to who's at fault."

It is illegal for any occupant of a motor vehicle to open any door so
as to cause danger to another road user.
Given that cyclists frequently and usually lawfully ride on the insdie
of queues, the rider's doing so would not be a defence. The only 'grey
areas' would arise if either a child opened the door (question of how
far they are liable and how far an adult is responsible for them) or
the rider struck by the door was doing something illegal (e.g. no
lights at night, riding on pavement).

Jon

Following on from Simon Brooke's message. . .

Quoted message said:

(ii) A motor vehicle may turn across your path, possibly crushing you
between the vehicle and street furniture. I believe this sort of
incident is the largest single killer of cyclists in London.

[Factually dooring is more deadly in London but the advice given is
absolutely right.]

Lorries have blindspots in which a cyclist can easily be tempted to lurk
in.

Lorries often manoeuvre in unexpected ways - in fact the queue may be
due to a lorry about to wiggle about all over the road.

Bottom line : Never pass a lorry /on either side/ unless you are
_certain_ it will be stationary until you've passed it.

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the deckchair business folded
[email hidden]
www.eminent.demon.co.uk - Lots for cyclists

Mark said:

I've been commuting to work by bike for about 6 weeks now (though I've
been riding for ages) and have been wondering how best to deal with queues
of traffic. Clearly I don't want to be stuck in a stationary queue -
that's why I'm on a bike and not in a car - but I don't want to unduly
annoy motorists or put myself in danger trying to get past.

Read this and think "DOOR ZONE" all the time...
http://www.bikexprt.com/massfacil/cambridge/doorzone/laird1.htm

Mike

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:18:58 +0000,

Danny Colyer said:

sothach said:

But IIRC the law allows for the passing of stationary traffic if safe
to do so (not crossing solid white lines & stuff),

Crossing solid white lines is permitted. From HC rule 108:
"You may cross the line if necessary to pass a stationary vehicle, or
overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are
travelling at 10mph or less."

Careful here. It isn't known whether it is allowed to cross a solid
white lines to overtake stationary queuing traffic. There has (to the
best of my knowledge) never been a testcase. If (when) it eventually
happens it will almost certainly be a motorcyclist being prosecuted but
....

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

Mark said:

What is the legal position on riding past a queue, on either side? I
couldn't find anything in a quick search of the highway code.

The highway code says...

Rule 139:
Overtake only when it is safe to do so. You should... only overtake on
the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there
is room to do so...

Rule 141:
You MUST NOT overtake... the nearest vehicle to a pedestrian crossing,
especially when it has stopped to let pedestrians cross...

Rule 143:
DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road
users. For example... where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works...

--
Matt B

Richard said:

Possibly; I mostly do this, as it means that I'm much more visible to
motorists that I'm overtaking (who are, or should be, used to
motorcycles filtering in such a manner). The only caveat is that I
won't do it if the queue has a habit of moving off
quickly/unexpectedly, as you'll suddenly find yourself stranded with
30mph+ traffic undertaking /you/.

Sprint training

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

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Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
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