Slightly OT, Belisha beacons

"martin" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

ISTR hearing recently that BBs were to be phased out and replaced by Pelicans. From a ped point of
view I can see the logic, a big red light is harder to ignore than a flashing orange thingy, but I
have noticed many new installations of Belishas where a Pleican would be wholly inappropriate.
From a cyclist point of view I find them much easier to negotiate, you don't get the cager police
honking you when you ride over one which has no ped on it. Did anyone else here about them being
phased out?
ps the ones with illuminated white srtipes on the post are even better.

They've just put something in the centre of Bristol which I think is called a Puffin crossing.
Unlike the Pelican crossings they replaced there is no green/red man to see on the other side of the
road. There's only the one on the press button so that only the couple of people standing right next
to it can see it. What on earth kind of thinking is that?

Andy P said:

They've just put something in the centre of Bristol which I think is called a Puffin crossing.
Unlike the Pelican crossings they replaced there is no green/red man to see on the other side of
the road. There's only the one on the press button so that only the couple of people standing
right next to it can see it. What on earth kind of thinking is that?

It does sound a bit mean to me.

ps, the company I work for makes the sensor ICs for the touch controls on these things

"Andy P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

They've just put something in the centre of Bristol which I think is

called

Quoted message said:

a Puffin crossing. Unlike the Pelican crossings they replaced there is no green/red man to see on
the other side of the road. There's only the one

on

Quoted message said:

the press button so that only the couple of people standing right next to

it

Quoted message said:

can see it. What on earth kind of thinking is that?

warwickshire.gov.uk1DCC12C3F2E7F61380256C68004B9F9EOpen ↗

Explains why Puffins are better than Pelicans

--
Lester Bailey www.lesterbailey.org www.aldburymorris.co.uk

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"Lester" <[email hidden]> wrote

warwickshire.gov.uk1DCC12C3F2E7F61Open ↗ 380256C68004B9F9E

Quoted message said:

Explains why Puffins are better than Pelicans

No it doesn't. How can it possibly be better to have the thing that tells you when it is safe to
cross only visible to anyone standing right next to
it. The other 10 -20 odd people that are waiting to cross can only rely on the movement of the
people next to them or the stopping of cars both of which are unreliable. The old Pelican
crossings still had the indicator above the push button as well.

martin said:

From a cyclist point of view I find them much easier to negotiate, you don't get the cager police
honking you when you ride over one which has no ped on it.

OK, I'll bite. Where in the Highway Code does it say you can ride through an empty pelican crossing
on a bike [1]? Don't you think this gives the rest of us a bad name?

Roger

[1] unless you mean on flashing amber, of course

"Andy P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Lester" <[email hidden]> wrote

warwickshire.gov.uk1DCC12C3F2E7F61Open ↗

Quoted message said:

380256C68004B9F9E

Quoted message said:

Explains why Puffins are better than Pelicans

No it doesn't.

Sorry, explains why they think Puffins are better!

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"Andy P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Lester" <[email hidden]> wrote

warwickshire.gov.uk1DCC12C3F2E7F61Open ↗ 380256C68004B9F9E

Quoted message said:

Explains why Puffins are better than Pelicans

No it doesn't. How can it possibly be better to have the thing that tells you when it is safe to
cross only visible to anyone standing right next to
it. The other 10 -20 odd people that are waiting to cross can only rely on the movement of the
people next to them or the stopping of cars both of which are unreliable. The old Pelican
crossings still had the indicator above the push button as well.

Yes they are confusing, you stare across the road for the green man only to find there ain't one!
probably a cost cutting exercise. So no-one heard about Zebra's being phased out? Anyone remember
Panda crossings? showing me age now. AFIAR they were zebras without the stripes, just two lines of
small studs.

Zog The Undeniable <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

martin said:

From a cyclist point of view I find them much easier to negotiate, you don't get the cager
police honking you when you ride over one which has no ped on it.

OK, I'll bite. Where in the Highway Code does it say you can ride through an empty pelican
crossing on a bike [1]? Don't you think this gives the rest of us a bad name?

Roger

[1] unless you mean on flashing amber, of course

of course (and green)

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:12:05 +0100 someone who may be "Andy P" <[email hidden]>
wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Unlike the Pelican crossings they replaced there is no green/red man to see on the other side of
the road. There's only the one on the press button so that only the couple of people standing right
next to it can see it. What on earth kind of thinking is that?

A Puffin is a Pelican that has been "improved".

Of course the people who "improved" it only think of the world from behind their windscreens. Thus
their thinking appears to be:

1) Pelicans needlessly waste the valuable time of motorists. These dammed pedestrians get fed up
waiting for the lights to change and cross before the lights change. How dare they! When they do
this the valuable time of motorists is wasted, so on a Puffin we fit a sensor to prevent this.

2) There are only ever one or two pedestrians waiting to cross, so we can save on light units by
just having indications on the button.

3) Pedestrians are scroungers as they do not pay road tax. Therefore they should be grateful for
what they get. They can press a button and wait until a set time has passed before the lights
change. Someone did suggest that perhaps motorists should stop, press a button and wait until the
lights change for them. WHAT A STUPID IDEA.

So much for those that "improved" the Pelican. My view is that a Pelican that reacts instantly to
pressing the button is alright, but a Zebra is far better. Best would be a Zebra that has a
button which when pressed springs up a black and white stripped fence across the road, as in a
well known cartoon.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

"Lester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Andy P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

They've just put something in the centre of Bristol which I think is

called

Quoted message said:

a Puffin crossing. Unlike the Pelican crossings they replaced there is no green/red man to see
on the other side of the road. There's only the one

on

Quoted message said:

the press button so that only the couple of people standing right next to

it

Quoted message said:

can see it. What on earth kind of thinking is that?

warwickshire.gov.uk1DCC12C3F2E7F61380256C68004B9F9EOpen ↗

Explains why Puffins are better than Pelicans

"When the green man is illuminated, it is safe to start to cross the road"
- does this mean the local authority, having told you it safe to cross, will take responsibility
when you get hit by the car running the red light?

This is how it works in Germany - if you ever cross on a red ped light, the other peds waiting will
assail you with a barrage of tutting, and comments like: "what an example for the children". They're
nuts: the example I want for my kids is that you must take a personally responsible for your own
safety, so looking for traffic is key, not the colour of some light. A few days in France would
underline this, if they live that long.

"Rory" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Lester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Andy P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

They've just put something in the centre of Bristol which I think is

called

Quoted message said:

a Puffin crossing. Unlike the Pelican crossings they replaced there

is no

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

green/red man to see on the other side of the road. There's only the

one

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on

Quoted message said:

the press button so that only the couple of people standing right next

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it

Quoted message said:

can see it. What on earth kind of thinking is that?

warwickshire.gov.uk1DCC12C3F2E7F61380256C68004B9F9EOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Explains why Puffins are better than Pelicans

"When the green man is illuminated, it is safe to start to cross the road"
- does this mean the local authority, having told you it safe to cross, will take responsibility
when you get hit by the car running the red light?

This is how it works in Germany - if you ever cross on a red ped light, the other peds waiting
will assail you with a barrage of tutting, and comments like: "what an example for the children".
They're nuts: the example I want for my kids is that you must take a personally responsible for
your own safety, so looking for traffic is key, not the colour of some light. A few days in France
would underline this, if they live that long.

I lived in Glasgow for 12 years, where zebra crossings are almost unknown. When driving my car
(oops, admitted it), I found that when I came down to England I almost went across zebra crossings
where pedestrians were waiting. The reason is that when you're relying on red lights, you just focus
on the red lights and don't look to the pavements where the pedestrians are. Having now moved south
I am much more aware of pedestrians, and tend to go slower through towns.

Moral? Zebra crossings put a bit of pressure back on the cager to pay attention to more than the 6ft
of road directly in front of him / her. Keep them. In fact, let's have more. Better still, let's
change the principle and have pedestrian right-of-way at all places in built-up-areas. The days of
cars being full of "important" people whilst the masses cringed on the pavements tugging their
forelocks to the gentry are long since past.

Radical? Not enough. Armed sentries with rocket-propelled grenades to blast anyone speeding, going
too close to a cyclist is the next logical step.

Peter

Quoted message said:

This is how it works in Germany - if you ever cross on a red ped light, the other peds waiting
will assail you with a barrage of tutting, and comments like: "what an example for the children".

In the old DDR I was told by an horrified East Berliner that I could be arrested for crossing on a
red pedestrian light. The road was completely empty of motor vehicles, of course - not even a
Trabant rattling over the horizon.

--
Rob

Please keep conversations in the newsgroup so that all may contribute and benefit.

Robert Bruce said:

In the old DDR I was told by an horrified East Berliner that I could be arrested for crossing on a
red pedestrian light. The road was completely empty of motor vehicles, of course - not even a
Trabant rattling over the horizon.

I thought the Law of Trabants was first you smelt them, then you heard them, then you saw them. In
which case it should read "not even a Trabant wafting over the horizon"

Tony

--
"If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." Mark Twain

"Robert Bruce" <robatanalytical-dynamicsdotcodotyoukay> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In the old DDR I was told by an horrified East Berliner that I could be arrested for crossing on a
red pedestrian light.

I got a ticket in down town Stockholm for crossing on red (as a ped) at about 4 in the morning. No
vehicle passed during the time it took to issue the ticket.

:~(

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I thought the Law of Trabants was first you smelt them, then you heard

them,

Quoted message said:

then you saw them. In which case it should read "not even a Trabant

wafting

Quoted message said:

over the horizon"

No, you rarely see them because of the smoke screen. They blow away before the wind clears
the smoke.

T

al_Mossah said:

Moral? Zebra crossings put a bit of pressure back on the cager to pay attention to more than the
6ft of road directly in front of him / her. Keep them. In fact, let's have more. Better still,
let's change the principle and have pedestrian right-of-way at all places in built-up-areas.

As I understand it, that's the law right now. Pedestrians have a right to use the road (except
motorways); cars do not, but use it by license. If, when driving a car, you hit a pedestrian,
claiming 'but I had right of way' won't get you out of trouble.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

Age equals angst multiplied by the speed of fright squared.
;; the Worlock

"Robert Bruce" <robatanalytical-dynamicsdotcodotyoukay> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This is how it works in Germany - if you ever cross on a red ped light, the other peds waiting
will assail you with a barrage of tutting, and comments like: "what an example for the
children".

In the old DDR I was told by an horrified East Berliner that I could be arrested for crossing on a
red pedestrian light. The road was completely empty of motor vehicles, of course - not even a
Trabant rattling over the horizon.

Yeah but the old Ossi Pedestrain lights were way cool, here's a piccy:
trabim.dePK aa 02 5 Ampelmanchen 20TM.jpgOpen ↗

BTW, did you ever try getting past US customs & immigration with DDR stamps in your passport? Do
they think that spies actually travel on thier own/real passports?

Quoted message said:

the old Ossi Pedestrain lights were way cool, here's a piccy:
trabim.dePK aa 02 5 Ampelmanchen 20TM.jpgOpen ↗

Yep. I remember commenting that anyone living outside the 1950s would never know whether to
cross or not.

Quoted message said:

BTW, did you ever try getting past US customs & immigration with DDR stamps in your passport?

I didn't visit the US until almost ten years later when the whole communist experiment was a distant
memory (it all happened so quickly, didn't it?). I don't think the bloke at Philadelphia airport had
even _heard_ of the German Democratic Republic.

BTW, America was horrible; full of wonderful individuals who somehow come together to form a simply
grotesque society, and I haven't been back.

--
Rob

Please keep conversations in the newsgroup so that all may contribute and benefit.

"martin" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

ISTR hearing recently that BBs were to be phased out and replaced by Pelicans. From a ped point of
view I can see the logic, a big red light is harder to ignore than a flashing orange thingy, but I
have noticed many new installations of Belishas where a Pleican would be wholly inappropriate.
From a cyclist point of view I find them much easier to negotiate, you don't get the cager police
honking you when you ride over one which has no ped on it. Did anyone else here about them being
phased out?
ps the ones with illuminated white srtipes on the post are even better.

Apparently not in Bristol. A brand new one has just appeared.