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so frustrated!

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
28 August 2005
Last activity
5 September 2005
Original author
Crystal
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  1. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Crystal said:

    "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Crystal <[email hidden]> wrote:
    :> "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    :>>
    :>> You mean ranch or blue cheese. Hopefully, you measure the amounts.
    :>
    :>
    :> Actually it is Kraft Carb Free Ranch that I have been using this
    :> past week
    :>
    :>
    :>> :> Snack - 2 ounce slice cheese or slice of summer sausage
    :>>
    :>> Cut the snack to lower calories.
    :>
    :>
    :> I can cut it but 12:00 until 5:00 is a long period of time with no
    :> food

    Noon to 5pm is a long tine with no food? You're kidding, right?

    no I'm not kidding, 5 hours is a long period of time with nothing but water
    (for me) that is why I allowed myself at least a slice of cheese

    Try a spoonful of cream cheese.

    5 hours is nothing if you find something else to occupy your time. :-)
    --
    Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

  2. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Crystal said:

    "jbuch" <jbuch@CUT_HERE.revealed.net> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Crystal said:

    "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    >Crystal <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >:> I admit I probably could up the exercise, but I really am not eating
    >:> that much. Maybe for an Atkins plan I should be eating more. I'm
    >:> doing the same thing I did the first time the diet was successful
    >:> for me.
    >
    >You can't lose weight by eating more. Continue to eat less than you're
    >eating until you start losing weight. saying that you're not eating that
    >much doesn't mean you're not eating too much to lose weight.

    see my other message for how much I eat on a typical day.... and from
    what I learned on Atkins the first time I was on it, the more I upped my
    fat from sausage and bacon, the more I lost... this is something I'm not
    doing this time around

    Chapter 22 of Atkins New Diet Revolution is titled:

    EXERCISe: IT'S NON-NEGOTIABLE

    You aren't DOING Atkins.

    You are TALKING Atkins.

    You are EATING Atkins... so you say.

    But you are NOT DOING ATKINS.

    Period.

    well I would exercise IF I could! all I can do is walk and I'm walking 4
    miles a day... that is ALL my knees can handle! maybe I'm not in as good
    shape as you are. I cannot do much exercising because of my bad painful
    knees

    4 miles is not bad.
    How fast do you walk and how long does it take you?

    I have bad knees too so I use a stationary bike (Lifecycle) at the gym
    and do 35 minutes 4 days per week followed by 1 hour of weight lifting.
    --
    Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

  3. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (The Queen of Cans and Jars) said:
    Crystal said:

    well I would exercise IF I could! all I can do is walk and I'm walking 4
    miles a day... that is ALL my knees can handle! maybe I'm not in as good
    shape as you are. I cannot do much exercising because of my bad painful
    knees

    You could lift weights. You could do Pilates or other floor exercises.
    You could swim.

    Or you could keep making excuses.

    She's being rude, but she is right. ;-)
    --
    Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

  4. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Crystal said:

    "The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Crystal said:

    well I would exercise IF I could! all I can do is walk and I'm walking 4
    miles a day... that is ALL my knees can handle! maybe I'm not in as good
    shape as you are. I cannot do much exercising because of my bad painful
    knees

    You could lift weights. You could do Pilates or other floor exercises.
    You could swim.

    Or you could keep making excuses.

    weights add muscle, floor exercises tone... right? I need to burn fat and
    get cardio. I have no access to a pool here, I live in a very small town
    with no facilities.

    you know, you did fine with your suggestions.... that is up until your last
    sentence.

    I agree.
    --
    Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

  5. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Crystal said:

    "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Crystal <[email hidden]> wrote:
    :> "The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    :> news:[email hidden]...
    :>> Crystal <[email hidden]> wrote:
    :>>
    :>>> well I would exercise IF I could! all I can do is walk and I'm
    :>>> walking 4 miles a day... that is ALL my knees can handle! maybe
    :>>> I'm not in as good shape as you are. I cannot do much exercising
    :>>> because of my bad painful knees
    :>>
    :>> You could lift weights. You could do Pilates or other floor
    :>> exercises. You could swim.
    :>>
    :>> Or you could keep making excuses.
    :>
    :>
    :> weights add muscle, floor exercises tone... right? I need to burn
    :> fat and get cardio. I have no access to a pool here, I live in a
    :> very small town with no facilities.

    Weights are good for helping to burn fat....They don't necessarily add
    muscle...they may help you keep muscle as you lose fat...that makes you
    look better as you lose, and you may improve strength. Good things.

    If you're walking 4 miles a day, then you're exercising. Cut the snacks
    and wait for weight loss to happen.

    by the way I've been tinkering at fitday. It seems that in order to get my
    fat up, and protein way down, I basically have to have very little meat, no
    cheese at all, and lots of veggies. sound right?

    Almost.
    No, NOT lots of veggies!
    Veggies are mostly carbs.
    --
    Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

  6. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Roger Zoul said:

    Crystal <[email hidden]> wrote:
    :> "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    :> news:[email hidden]...
    :>> Crystal <[email hidden]> wrote:
    :>> :> "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    :>> :>>
    :>> :>> You mean ranch or blue cheese. Hopefully, you measure the
    :>> :>> amounts.
    :>> :>
    :>> :>
    :>> :> Actually it is Kraft Carb Free Ranch that I have been using this
    :>> :> past week
    :>> :>
    :>> :>
    :>> :>> :> Snack - 2 ounce slice cheese or slice of summer sausage
    :>> :>>
    :>> :>> Cut the snack to lower calories.
    :>> :>
    :>> :>
    :>> :> I can cut it but 12:00 until 5:00 is a long period of time with
    :>> :> no food
    :>>
    :>> Noon to 5pm is a long tine with no food? You're kidding, right?
    :>
    :>
    :> no I'm not kidding, 5 hours is a long period of time with nothing
    :> but water (for me) that is why I allowed myself at least a slice of
    :> cheese

    Are you diabetic? Perhaps those muffins make it hard for you to go 5 hours
    without eating. Do you always get hungry over a 5 hour span? Have you
    tried drinking lots of water during that time? You could also eat some
    celery sticks as a snack, too, you know.

    Celery is good... stuffed with tuna and mayo.

    Yum!
    --
    Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

  7. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Roger Zoul said:

    Crystal <[email hidden]> wrote:
    :> "gweebles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    :> news:[email hidden]...
    :>> I'm sure your doctor would have a stroke if he found out you're
    :>> doing Atkins. FYI, most doctors don't believe in Atkins.
    :>>
    :>> Serena
    :>
    :>
    :> Yes actually, my doctor said I shouldn't do Atkins because of my
    :> high BP issues (hypertension)

    Why?

    Uh, 'cause her Dr. is still stuck on the old [censored] idea that fat is
    bad?
    --
    Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

  8. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Crystal said:

    "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Crystal <[email hidden]> wrote:
    :> "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    :> news:[email hidden]...
    :>> Crystal <[email hidden]> wrote:
    :>> :> "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    :>> :> news:[email hidden]...
    :>> :>> Crystal <[email hidden]> wrote:
    :>> :>> :> "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    :>> :>> :> news:[email hidden]...
    :>> :>> :>> Crystal <[email hidden]> wrote:
    :>> :>> :>> :> I admit I probably could up the exercise, but I really
    :>> :>> :>> :> am not eating that much. Maybe for an Atkins plan I
    :>> :>> :>> :> should be eating more. I'm doing the same thing I did
    :>> :>> :>> :> the first time the diet was successful
    :>> :>> :>> :> for me.
    :>> :>> :>>
    :>> :>> :>> You can't lose weight by eating more. Continue to eat less
    :>> :>> :>> than you're eating until you start losing weight. saying
    :>> :>> :>> that you're not eating that much doesn't mean you're not
    :>> :>> :>> eating too much to lose weight.
    :>> :>> :>
    :>> :>> :>
    :>> :>> :>
    :>> :>> :> see my other message for how much I eat on a typical day....
    :>> :>> :> and from what I learned on Atkins the first time I was on
    :>> :>> :> it, the more I upped my fat from sausage and bacon, the more
    :>> :>> :> I lost... this is something I'm not doing this time around
    :>> :>>
    :>> :>> You don't need to avoid fat....in fact, you may want to eat more
    :>> :>> fat and less protein, depending on where you are exactly. Are
    :>> :>> you using fitday.com?
    :>> :>
    :>> :>
    :>> :> I still have a fitday account. I logged in and put my
    :>> :> activities in and what I ate on a typical day last week and this
    :>> :> is the breakdown:
    :>> :>
    :>> :> Fat 55%, Sat 26%, Poly 4%, Mono 22%, Carbs 4%, Fiber 0%, Protein
    :>> :> 33%,
    :>> :>
    :>> :> Calories: 1224
    :>>
    :>> Yeah, you need to lower your protein and up your fat...
    :>
    :>
    :> so I need to eat less fat, but what meat that I do eat, it should be
    :> less lean? oh boy I'm confused

    ? Up your fat, lower your protein, and work on calories. Go for fattier
    types of meats rather than lean cuts. Protein tends to get converted to
    glucose (carbs) by the body...so eating too much may cause problems.

    How old and tall are you and what do you weigh? I assume you're a woman,
    right?

    I'm 40, 5'6 and I weight 250

    About the same boat I am in...

    I'm 43. Started at 273 and am currently at 225. My goal is 150, maybe
    lower when I get there.
    --
    Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

  9. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Roger Zoul said:

    Crystal <[email hidden]> wrote:
    :> "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    :>> :>> :> Calories: 1224
    :>> :>>
    :>> :>> Yeah, you need to lower your protein and up your fat...
    :>> :>
    :>> :>
    :>> :> so I need to eat less fat, but what meat that I do eat, it
    :>> :> should be less lean? oh boy I'm confused
    :>>
    :>> ? Up your fat, lower your protein, and work on calories. Go for
    :>> fattier types of meats rather than lean cuts. Protein tends to get
    :>> converted to glucose (carbs) by the body...so eating too much may
    :>> cause problems.
    :>>
    :>> How old and tall are you and what do you weigh? I assume you're a
    :>> woman, right?
    :>
    :>
    :> I'm 40, 5'6 and I weight 250

    Then, if you're eating 1224 consistently, and walking 4 miles on a regular
    basis, then hang tight, you'll lose weight.

    However, I want to re-address something....

    You've doing on Atkins for 3 weeks, right?

    Prior to that you were not doing low carb, right?

    And you have not lost a single pound?

    Is that right?

    Sounds like she is about due for a "whoosh". <G>
    --
    Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

  10. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Crystal said:

    okay I was just reading something on atkins.com about BP meds... I started a
    beta-blocker this past Spring and it says on the site that they can
    interfere with weight loss... okay, I have a new excuse now (just kidding)

    I however do not like atkins.com advise about this, they say:

    " The other types of anti-hypertension drugs that aggravate all of the above
    are beta-blockers. If you are on a beta-blocker, you have little cause for
    concern about discontinuing your medication. In the first place, the
    controlled carb lifestyle that you are adopting lowers blood pressure
    itself. "

    Should they really be suggesting discontinuing your meds just because you
    are doing atkins? Then they go on to suggest natural things to take instead
    of the pharmaceuticals:

    "In addition to L-taurine, you may control blood pressure with magnesium,
    hawthorn, Co-enzyme Q10, carnitine and garlic. Because doing Atkins will
    naturally lower your blood pressure, continuing to take pharmaceuticals
    could put you at risk for an overdose. "

    I won't be seeing my doctor again until mid-November. If this beta-blocker
    is one of the culprits for my hard time, well that just sucks.

    Because doing Atkins will naturally lower your blood pressure, continuing to
    take pharmaceuticals could put you at risk for an overdose.

    Buy a BP cuff and stethascope setup.
    Learn how to use it, then you decide. ;-)
    --
    Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

  11. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Crystal said:

    I can't find anything with the particulars of the fat fast. I get the gist
    of it, but is there anything written on this, or can you provide more detail

    Fat fasting sux, but it works. I'm doing it right now, 5 days on and 2
    days off. Last week and this week. ;-)

    900 calories of fat, 50 calories of protein, 50 calories of carbs.

    That's the basics. It was written about in Atkins "The New Diet
    Revolution".

    Cheers!
    --
    Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

  12. Crystal said:

    1-1/2 years ago I went on Atkins for the first time. Within 4 months I lost
    30 pounds with hardly any effort, not even any exercise. I have maintained
    that loss doing low carb or low fat.

    Now I want to lose more weight. I restarted Atkins following it to a T just
    like I did 1-1/2 years ago. I cannot lose a single ounce. I've checked and
    I'm not overdoing it on fatty food, I'm eating lots of allowed veggies and
    lean meats, fish, etc. Drinking the suggested amount of water. I even added
    some exercise though only walking daily. Still can't lose an ounce.

    Prior to this I did a low fat and watching calories diet, with the walking,
    on that I couldn't lose anything either. I'm so frustrated and at a loss to
    what I should try! help!

    Hello Crystal,

    I have read all 114 posts in this thread as they have popped and I
    would like to see you lose the weight and get the loss going again. My
    thought is that you should buy the book and actually work the program
    as Dr. Atkins, or any of the other fine Low Carb diet gurus, designed
    it through their research.

    In another thread, jbuch and I had a debate about something he wrote,
    his 4 Success Factors for doing Atkins. I had suggested it was too
    basic, s/he suggested that basic is the key. Oddly, I think it'd be
    useful for you, here.

    They were:
    1- Eat until satisfied, not full
    2- Exercise
    3- Vitamins and Minerals
    4- Read the Manual and Follow it.

    1- You have not mentioned if you are satisfied with your eating, but I
    think that if you follow the advice of the group and up the fat content
    of what you eat, you will be.

    2- If you are being honest (I assume this is so) and you are walking
    regularly, that will suffice for exercise at the moment.

    3- You have not mentioned anything about taking supplements. Fiber?
    Multivit? Minerals? EFAs? You are not really doing any of the reputable
    LC plans if you are not doing this.

    4- Read the manual. The website is a marketing tool, designed to lure
    people in, and help them get started/curious. I cannot emphasize the
    need to have a book that lays out every aspect of the plan, so that it
    is easier to do. Personally, I like Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution
    (the 1992 or 1999 edition), Atkins for Life, or Protein Power by Dr. &
    Dr. Eades, who have a show on PBS (review forthcoming, as I just found
    it, and haven't watched the TiVo'd copy yet).

    I could offer more specific information, but I like the socratic
    method. That said, nothing goes with boneless skinless chicken breast
    like infused Olive Oil, before cooking and after cooking. (I can't pick
    a favorite, but some suggestions include Lemon infusion, Rosemary
    infusion, Lime, Roasted Garlic, even Grapefruit). It improves the fat
    profile and the flavor.

    Hollywood, who hopes you have the committment to work the changes you
    want

  13. Of course, starvation produces thinness, but it's not a healthy way to go.
    Nor do you have any data to show the speed of weight loss in starvation
    mode. If the body indeed does slow down metabolism in starvation mode to
    conserve life, then that level of deprivation will not produce the fastest,
    most efficient weight loss. The trick is to find the right level and
    combination of nutrients to produce the desired loss. This may certainly be
    affected by a variety of drugs.

    "JC Der Koenig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    Nobody ever came out of a concentration camp weighing 250 pounds. Some of
    them were relatively sedentary.

    I don't expect you to understand this message.

    There's a bit of an obstacle in your way.

    --
    Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

  14. Hiya Roger.

    No, I wasn't kidding. Sorry if I sounded harsh. I have very little
    patience for people who ask for help then refuse to take it. It seems
    like the wrong attitude to me. I prefer when people are open to
    suggestions and willing to at least *try* to do difficult things.

    The hardest thing I ever did was quit drinking. It was tough. I had to
    try and fail a bunch of times before I finally succeeded. But I would
    still be a lush if I hadn't tried. It's all in the attitude. I never
    said, "Oh I can't do that -- can't live without cocktails and happyhour
    and wine with dinner." I said, "Damn, this is rough, but I'm going to
    keep trying till I get it right." I surrounded myself with sober
    people, asked for their advice, AND THEN I TOOK IT.

  15. workdramas <[email hidden]> wrote:
    :> Hiya Roger.

    Hiya!

    :>
    :> No, I wasn't kidding. Sorry if I sounded harsh. I have very little
    :> patience for people who ask for help then refuse to take it. It seems
    :> like the wrong attitude to me. I prefer when people are open to
    :> suggestions and willing to at least *try* to do difficult things.
    :>

    Well, I didn't really think you were harsh...sometimes people need a good
    kick in the butt..

    My only point is that I don't hink JC ever gets frustrated! Or, if he does,
    it's not because of anything going no here 🙂 This group is probably his
    method of relieving frustration!

    :> The hardest thing I ever did was quit drinking. It was tough. I had
    :> to try and fail a bunch of times before I finally succeeded. But I
    :> would still be a lush if I hadn't tried. It's all in the attitude. I
    :> never said, "Oh I can't do that -- can't live without cocktails and
    :> happyhour and wine with dinner." I said, "Damn, this is rough, but
    :> I'm going to keep trying till I get it right." I surrounded myself
    :> with sober people, asked for their advice, AND THEN I TOOK IT.

    Yes, "can't" is a word that should be used only very, very rarely. Most
    folks seem to throw it about every other sentence, especially when it comes
    to weight loss. So many folks seem to be "in love" with food.

  16. "OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    4 miles is not bad.
    How fast do you walk and how long does it take you?

    I have bad knees too so I use a stationary bike (Lifecycle) at the gym
    and do 35 minutes 4 days per week followed by 1 hour of weight lifting.

    I read somewhere that fat people burn more energy walking slower because
    there is a energy saving change in gait as it speeds up.

    --
    No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes

  17. None Given <[email hidden]> wrote:
    :> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    :> news:[email hidden]...
    :>> 4 miles is not bad.
    :>> How fast do you walk and how long does it take you?
    :>>
    :>> I have bad knees too so I use a stationary bike (Lifecycle) at the
    :>> gym and do 35 minutes 4 days per week followed by 1 hour of weight
    :>> lifting.
    :>
    :>
    :> I read somewhere that fat people burn more energy walking slower
    :> because there is a energy saving change in gait as it speeds up.

    Don't believe it.

  18. "OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Crystal said:

    "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Crystal <[email hidden]> wrote:
    :> "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    :>>
    :>> You mean ranch or blue cheese. Hopefully, you measure the amounts.
    :>
    :>
    :> Actually it is Kraft Carb Free Ranch that I have been using this
    :> past week
    :>
    :>
    :>> :> Snack - 2 ounce slice cheese or slice of summer sausage
    :>>
    :>> Cut the snack to lower calories.
    :>
    :>
    :> I can cut it but 12:00 until 5:00 is a long period of time with no
    :> food

    Noon to 5pm is a long tine with no food? You're kidding, right?

    no I'm not kidding, 5 hours is a long period of time with nothing but
    water
    (for me) that is why I allowed myself at least a slice of cheese

    Try a spoonful of cream cheese.

    5 hours is nothing if you find something else to occupy your time. :-)

    what about what Atkins says about eating as many as 5 smaller meals through
    the day (instead of 2-3 meals)? I like to spread my food around instead
    of eating it at 3 sittings. Atkins says you can very well do this, but you
    and others say 5 hours without food is ok

  19. "OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Crystal said:

    "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Crystal <[email hidden]> wrote:
    :> "The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message
    :> news:[email hidden]...
    :>> Crystal <[email hidden]> wrote:
    :>>
    :>>> well I would exercise IF I could! all I can do is walk and I'm
    :>>> walking 4 miles a day... that is ALL my knees can handle! maybe
    :>>> I'm not in as good shape as you are. I cannot do much exercising
    :>>> because of my bad painful knees
    :>>
    :>> You could lift weights. You could do Pilates or other floor
    :>> exercises. You could swim.
    :>>
    :>> Or you could keep making excuses.
    :>
    :>
    :> weights add muscle, floor exercises tone... right? I need to burn
    :> fat and get cardio. I have no access to a pool here, I live in a
    :> very small town with no facilities.

    Weights are good for helping to burn fat....They don't necessarily add
    muscle...they may help you keep muscle as you lose fat...that makes you
    look better as you lose, and you may improve strength. Good things.

    If you're walking 4 miles a day, then you're exercising. Cut the
    snacks
    and wait for weight loss to happen.

    by the way I've been tinkering at fitday. It seems that in order to get
    my
    fat up, and protein way down, I basically have to have very little meat,
    no
    cheese at all, and lots of veggies. sound right?

    Almost.
    No, NOT lots of veggies!
    Veggies are mostly carbs.

    per atkins: 2-3 cups of specific veggies, or 1 cup of other specified
    veggies if salad veggies don't exceed 2 cups

  20. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Crystal said:

    "OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Crystal said:

    "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > Crystal <[email hidden]> wrote:
    > :> "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > :>>
    > :>> You mean ranch or blue cheese. Hopefully, you measure the amounts.
    > :>
    > :>
    > :> Actually it is Kraft Carb Free Ranch that I have been using this
    > :> past week
    > :>
    > :>
    > :>> :> Snack - 2 ounce slice cheese or slice of summer sausage
    > :>>
    > :>> Cut the snack to lower calories.
    > :>
    > :>
    > :> I can cut it but 12:00 until 5:00 is a long period of time with no
    > :> food
    >
    > Noon to 5pm is a long tine with no food? You're kidding, right?

    no I'm not kidding, 5 hours is a long period of time with nothing but
    water
    (for me) that is why I allowed myself at least a slice of cheese

    Try a spoonful of cream cheese.

    5 hours is nothing if you find something else to occupy your time. :-)

    what about what Atkins says about eating as many as 5 smaller meals through
    the day (instead of 2-3 meals)? I like to spread my food around instead
    of eating it at 3 sittings. Atkins says you can very well do this, but you
    and others say 5 hours without food is ok

    Well, personally, I don't have time for 4 or 5 meals per day.
    I normally eat 2, 3 if I have time.

    I'm too damned busy to mold my entire life around meal times.

    IMHO that attitude makes it MUCH easier to "diet".

    Cheers!
    --
    Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

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