So I swapped out the wheels and the creak went away.....

[D'ohBoy]

....what do I do now?

The lockring (Campy Chorus 10 13/29 cassette) is torqued to spec. I
removed, cleaned, greased and replaced the cassette. Checked that the
freehub nut was tight, removed it anyway, checked bearings in freehub,
turn as if nicely lubed. Lubed threads on freehub nut, re-installed
tight. Like buttah, no play. Hub axle also turns like buttah, no
play.

A while ago, I was sure it was the spokes so I applied my tensiometer
to the spokes but they were all well within 10% of the mean tension. I
took the opportunity to true the wheels (minor tweak) but that did
nothing. I also lubed the spoke sockets (CXP-33's) to no avail.

So I would go out and ride it to see if I took care of it, but it is
raining here. Managed to beat the rain this morning but no dice now.

If the above-recited attempts don't solve the creak, where would you
go next?

Cassette has minimal wear, as far as I can tell (but I did get it on
ebay). Loose rivets on the cogs with carriers? It was a cyclical
thing but lately it has been every pedal stroke mostly when standing.

QR, perhaps?

Help! it's driving me nuts!

D'ohBoy

 

[Vee]

D'ohBoy wrote:
> ...what do I do now?
>
> The lockring (Campy Chorus 10 13/29 cassette) is torqued to spec. I
> removed, cleaned, greased and replaced the cassette. Checked that the
> freehub nut was tight, removed it anyway, checked bearings in freehub,
> turn as if nicely lubed. Lubed threads on freehub nut, re-installed
> tight. Like buttah, no play. Hub axle also turns like buttah, no
> play.
>
> A while ago, I was sure it was the spokes so I applied my tensiometer
> to the spokes but they were all well within 10% of the mean tension. I
> took the opportunity to true the wheels (minor tweak) but that did
> nothing. I also lubed the spoke sockets (CXP-33's) to no avail.
>
> So I would go out and ride it to see if I took care of it, but it is
> raining here. Managed to beat the rain this morning but no dice now.
>
> If the above-recited attempts don't solve the creak, where would you
> go next?
>
> Cassette has minimal wear, as far as I can tell (but I did get it on
> ebay). Loose rivets on the cogs with carriers? It was a cyclical
> thing but lately it has been every pedal stroke mostly when standing.
>
> QR, perhaps?
>
> Help! it's driving me nuts!
>
> D'ohBoy

So you've narrowed it down to the rear wheel? Sounds like it, but in
the subject line, you mention swapping both wheels. If you're sure
it's the rear, check the non-drive side spokes and the bearing
adjustment again for looseness. Don't worry about spoke tension
values, just make sure none of the spokes are loose enough that you can
wiggle them without much resistance. And you're checking the hub
adjustment while it's clamped in the dropouts, right?

It's not your cassette, since loose lockrings and worn cogs don't creak
(and the rivets do nothing). If you have some wacky hub, I guess it's
possible your freehub is creaking, but that's a rare one, too. Rear
wheel creak is almost caused by a loose spoke or loose bearings.

-Vee

 

[D'ohBoy]

Vee wrote:
> D'ohBoy wrote:
> > ...what do I do now?
> >
> > The lockring (Campy Chorus 10 13/29 cassette) is torqued to spec. I
> > removed, cleaned, greased and replaced the cassette. Checked that the
> > freehub nut was tight, removed it anyway, checked bearings in freehub,
> > turn as if nicely lubed. Lubed threads on freehub nut, re-installed
> > tight. Like buttah, no play. Hub axle also turns like buttah, no
> > play.
> >
> > A while ago, I was sure it was the spokes so I applied my tensiometer
> > to the spokes but they were all well within 10% of the mean tension. I
> > took the opportunity to true the wheels (minor tweak) but that did
> > nothing. I also lubed the spoke sockets (CXP-33's) to no avail.
> >
> > So I would go out and ride it to see if I took care of it, but it is
> > raining here. Managed to beat the rain this morning but no dice now.
> >
> > If the above-recited attempts don't solve the creak, where would you
> > go next?
> >
> > Cassette has minimal wear, as far as I can tell (but I did get it on
> > ebay). Loose rivets on the cogs with carriers? It was a cyclical
> > thing but lately it has been every pedal stroke mostly when standing.
> >
> > QR, perhaps?
> >
> > Help! it's driving me nuts!
> >
> > D'ohBoy
>
> So you've narrowed it down to the rear wheel? Sounds like it, but in
> the subject line, you mention swapping both wheels. If you're sure
> it's the rear, check the non-drive side spokes and the bearing
> adjustment again for looseness. Don't worry about spoke tension
> values, just make sure none of the spokes are loose enough that you can
> wiggle them without much resistance. And you're checking the hub
> adjustment while it's clamped in the dropouts, right?
>
> It's not your cassette, since loose lockrings and worn cogs don't creak
> (and the rivets do nothing). If you have some wacky hub, I guess it's
> possible your freehub is creaking, but that's a rare one, too. Rear
> wheel creak is almost caused by a loose spoke or loose bearings.
>
> -Vee

Thanks, Vee!

Your mention of spokes tweaked something in my memory. When I lubed
the sockets in the rim, I stress relieved the spokes to pivot the
nipples in the sockets and work the lube around. Don't know why I
didn't figure it out then, but the spokes were slightly corroded at the
crossings. Moved kinda rough against each other and made a slight
*creak*-ish noise. Probably amplified by the way the forces work when
you are riding somehow.

So I took a hand clamp (one of those quick grips) and squeezed two near
parallel spokes together to expose the area of contact on the four
spokes (the two being squeezed and the crossed spokes of each) and
noted a darkish rough area. Took some four ought steel wool and
lightly cleaned each of the crossings on both wheels. Smooth and no
noise!

Your oblique reference to the front wheel was valuable too. The
corrosion/roughness was significantly worse on the front wheel. Makes
sense with the standing - more weight on the front wheel = more torque
on the front of the frame/front spokes.

I probably should have done each adjustment individually and then I
would have conclusive evidence for the source of the creak, but I am
fairly confident that I have found it; still haven't had the
opportunity to ride it (the rain continues). Fingers crossed, I will
head to my favorite local climbs and give the wheels a whirl on Monday.

Thanks again.

D'ohBoy

 

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

D'ohBoy wrote:
> Vee wrote:
>> D'ohBoy wrote:
>>> ...what do I do now?
>>>
>>> The lockring (Campy Chorus 10 13/29 cassette) is torqued to spec. I
>>> removed, cleaned, greased and replaced the cassette. Checked that
>>> the freehub nut was tight, removed it anyway, checked bearings in
>>> freehub, turn as if nicely lubed. Lubed threads on freehub nut,
>>> re-installed tight. Like buttah, no play. Hub axle also turns
>>> like buttah, no play.
>>>
>>> A while ago, I was sure it was the spokes so I applied my
>>> tensiometer to the spokes but they were all well within 10% of the
>>> mean tension. I took the opportunity to true the wheels (minor
>>> tweak) but that did nothing. I also lubed the spoke sockets
>>> (CXP-33's) to no avail.
>>>
>>> So I would go out and ride it to see if I took care of it, but it is
>>> raining here. Managed to beat the rain this morning but no dice
>>> now.
>>>
>>> If the above-recited attempts don't solve the creak, where would
>>> you go next?
>>>
>>> Cassette has minimal wear, as far as I can tell (but I did get it on
>>> ebay). Loose rivets on the cogs with carriers? It was a cyclical
>>> thing but lately it has been every pedal stroke mostly when
>>> standing.
>>>
>>> QR, perhaps?
>>>
>>> Help! it's driving me nuts!
>>>
>>> D'ohBoy
>>
>> So you've narrowed it down to the rear wheel? Sounds like it, but in
>> the subject line, you mention swapping both wheels. If you're sure
>> it's the rear, check the non-drive side spokes and the bearing
>> adjustment again for looseness. Don't worry about spoke tension
>> values, just make sure none of the spokes are loose enough that you
>> can wiggle them without much resistance. And you're checking the hub
>> adjustment while it's clamped in the dropouts, right?
>>
>> It's not your cassette, since loose lockrings and worn cogs don't
>> creak (and the rivets do nothing). If you have some wacky hub, I
>> guess it's possible your freehub is creaking, but that's a rare one,
>> too. Rear wheel creak is almost caused by a loose spoke or loose
>> bearings.
>>
>> -Vee
>
> Thanks, Vee!
>
> Your mention of spokes tweaked something in my memory. When I lubed
> the sockets in the rim, I stress relieved the spokes to pivot the
> nipples in the sockets and work the lube around. Don't know why I
> didn't figure it out then, but the spokes were slightly corroded at
> the crossings. Moved kinda rough against each other and made a slight
> *creak*-ish noise. Probably amplified by the way the forces work when
> you are riding somehow.
>
> So I took a hand clamp (one of those quick grips) and squeezed two
> near parallel spokes together to expose the area of contact on the
> four spokes (the two being squeezed and the crossed spokes of each)
> and noted a darkish rough area. Took some four ought steel wool and
> lightly cleaned each of the crossings on both wheels. Smooth and no
> noise!
>
> Your oblique reference to the front wheel was valuable too. The
> corrosion/roughness was significantly worse on the front wheel. Makes
> sense with the standing - more weight on the front wheel = more torque
> on the front of the frame/front spokes.
>
> I probably should have done each adjustment individually and then I
> would have conclusive evidence for the source of the creak, but I am
> fairly confident that I have found it; still haven't had the
> opportunity to ride it (the rain continues). Fingers crossed, I will
> head to my favorite local climbs and give the wheels a whirl on
> Monday.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> D'ohBoy

I have no idea what the original problem was, but Mavic Open Pros?
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[D'ohBoy]

<snip Phil's suggestion/query>

Actually, not Open Pros. To quote my original post:

" ... spoke sockets (CXP-33's) ...."

Why, what was your suggestion? I already lubed the nipple sockets
(despite the fact I wrote "spoke sockets").

D'ohBoy

 

[Mike Reed]

D'ohBoy wrote:
> Vee wrote:
> > D'ohBoy wrote:
> > > ...what do I do now?
> > >
> > > The lockring (Campy Chorus 10 13/29 cassette) is torqued to spec. I
> > > removed, cleaned, greased and replaced the cassette. Checked that the
> > > freehub nut was tight, removed it anyway, checked bearings in freehub,
> > > turn as if nicely lubed. Lubed threads on freehub nut, re-installed
> > > tight. Like buttah, no play. Hub axle also turns like buttah, no
> > > play.
> > >
> > > A while ago, I was sure it was the spokes so I applied my tensiometer
> > > to the spokes but they were all well within 10% of the mean tension. I
> > > took the opportunity to true the wheels (minor tweak) but that did
> > > nothing. I also lubed the spoke sockets (CXP-33's) to no avail.
> > >
> > > So I would go out and ride it to see if I took care of it, but it is
> > > raining here. Managed to beat the rain this morning but no dice now.
> > >
> > > If the above-recited attempts don't solve the creak, where would you
> > > go next?
> > >
> > > Cassette has minimal wear, as far as I can tell (but I did get it on
> > > ebay). Loose rivets on the cogs with carriers? It was a cyclical
> > > thing but lately it has been every pedal stroke mostly when standing.
> > >
> > > QR, perhaps?
> > >
> > > Help! it's driving me nuts!
> > >
> > > D'ohBoy
> >
> > So you've narrowed it down to the rear wheel? Sounds like it, but in
> > the subject line, you mention swapping both wheels. If you're sure
> > it's the rear, check the non-drive side spokes and the bearing
> > adjustment again for looseness. Don't worry about spoke tension
> > values, just make sure none of the spokes are loose enough that you can
> > wiggle them without much resistance. And you're checking the hub
> > adjustment while it's clamped in the dropouts, right?
> >
> > It's not your cassette, since loose lockrings and worn cogs don't creak
> > (and the rivets do nothing). If you have some wacky hub, I guess it's
> > possible your freehub is creaking, but that's a rare one, too. Rear
> > wheel creak is almost caused by a loose spoke or loose bearings.
> >
> > -Vee
>
> Thanks, Vee!
>
> Your mention of spokes tweaked something in my memory. When I lubed
> the sockets in the rim, I stress relieved the spokes to pivot the
> nipples in the sockets and work the lube around. Don't know why I
> didn't figure it out then, but the spokes were slightly corroded at the
> crossings. Moved kinda rough against each other and made a slight
> *creak*-ish noise. Probably amplified by the way the forces work when
> you are riding somehow.
>
> So I took a hand clamp (one of those quick grips) and squeezed two near
> parallel spokes together to expose the area of contact on the four
> spokes (the two being squeezed and the crossed spokes of each) and
> noted a darkish rough area. Took some four ought steel wool and
> lightly cleaned each of the crossings on both wheels. Smooth and no
> noise!

You know, I had the exact same symptoms as you about three months ago.
I searched this newsgroup, and decided to clean and oil the outside of
my freehub (cassette splines). This totally got rid of the creak.

I had wear at the spoke crossings too, but that's normal, and it's my
understanding that there's nothing you can do about it. From my
research, it also looks like pedalling action, even standing under
power, barely increases tension on the spokes, and probably wouldn't be
enough to cause a pop at the crossings.

So, when you do get to go ride it, and if the creak "comes back" again,
try pulling the cassette, cleaning the freehub shell, and adding some
lightweight lube to its surface.

Good luck with this most frustrating of prolems,

-Mike

 

[D'ohBoy]

<snippage of suggestion to lube freehub exterior>

Been there, done that, still creaky! Thanks anyway.

D'ohBoy

 

[Richard B]

"D'ohBoy" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> ...what do I do now?

>
> If the above-recited attempts don't solve the creak, where would you
> go next?

>
=====================================================================
I had a repetitive tick in my rear wheel and the wheel would not stay
true; it drove me crazy... It turned out a spoke was pulling through the
rim under the manufacturer label. I was unable to see the cracked
section until the bump became pronounced enough to raise the label
and make me suspicious. I peeled away the label and discovered the
problem.

Rich

 

[D'ohBoy]

So, despite the seemingly well-lubed and adjusted hubs, I decided to
check and see. Popped the axle on the rear, yep, just as I had lubed
it late last fall. Popped the axle on the front (BTW, the design on
these Campy hubs rocks!), and it appeared the original Campy lube was
still in the hub! After three years, I had never re-packed the front
hub - how it got overlooked, I'll never know. Perhaps it was the fact
that it seemed to turn so nice that made me think it was fine. Who
knows?

Anyway, long story short: I believe it was the dry(ish) front hub
bearings that were creaking.

D'ohBoy, who was laid low by his own lack of diligent preventive
maintenance.

 

[Mike Reed]

D'ohBoy wrote:
> So, despite the seemingly well-lubed and adjusted hubs, I decided to
> check and see. Popped the axle on the rear, yep, just as I had lubed
> it late last fall. Popped the axle on the front (BTW, the design on
> these Campy hubs rocks!), and it appeared the original Campy lube was
> still in the hub! After three years, I had never re-packed the front
> hub - how it got overlooked, I'll never know. Perhaps it was the fact
> that it seemed to turn so nice that made me think it was fine. Who
> knows?
>
> Anyway, long story short: I believe it was the dry(ish) front hub
> bearings that were creaking.
>
> D'ohBoy, who was laid low by his own lack of diligent preventive
> maintenance.

Interesting, I'll be interested to see others' experiences with this. I
might have suspected axle-end/dropout interface dirt, but not the
actual bearings. Maybe axle-end/spacer/cone creaking? (I'm not familiar
with the Campy design you speak of, so I'm limited to a Shimano-centric
approach).

-Mike

 

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

Mike Reed wrote:
> D'ohBoy wrote:
>> So, despite the seemingly well-lubed and adjusted hubs, I decided to
>> check and see. Popped the axle on the rear, yep, just as I had lubed
>> it late last fall. Popped the axle on the front (BTW, the design on
>> these Campy hubs rocks!), and it appeared the original Campy lube was
>> still in the hub! After three years, I had never re-packed the front
>> hub - how it got overlooked, I'll never know. Perhaps it was the
>> fact that it seemed to turn so nice that made me think it was fine.
>> Who knows?
>>
>> Anyway, long story short: I believe it was the dry(ish) front hub
>> bearings that were creaking.
>>
>> D'ohBoy, who was laid low by his own lack of diligent preventive
>> maintenance.
>
> Interesting, I'll be interested to see others' experiences with this.
> I might have suspected axle-end/dropout interface dirt, but not the
> actual bearings. Maybe axle-end/spacer/cone creaking? (I'm not
> familiar with the Campy design you speak of, so I'm limited to a
> Shimano-centric approach).

My old cheapo hub on my commuter bike has very poorly sealed bearings. I
inadvertently let them go dry a little while ago and I noticed a light
ticking sound as I was riding. It was a pretty smooth, rhythmic sound,
kinda like a cascade, more often than once per wheel revolution, so that led
me to the bearings. I dripped some Triflow in and that silenced it right
up.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[D'ohBoy]

<snippage of Phil's relation of his own dry hub tale>

Did some short but fairly brutal climbs last night and the creak
remains at bay.

Ya know, I'm not so sure that it was the hub now. I really think it
was the spoke crossings. When it comes back (which these sorts of
issues are wont to do), I will do a more controlled experiment rather
than the shotgun approach.

DohBoy, who apologizes for obsessing about a creak even after it's gone.

 

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

D'ohBoy wrote:
> <snippage of Phil's relation of his own dry hub tale>
>
> Did some short but fairly brutal climbs last night and the creak
> remains at bay.
>
> Ya know, I'm not so sure that it was the hub now. I really think it
> was the spoke crossings. When it comes back (which these sorts of
> issues are wont to do), I will do a more controlled experiment rather
> than the shotgun approach.
>
> DohBoy, who apologizes for obsessing about a creak even after it's
> gone.

Stick paper or something rippable in between the crossings to remove those
as a suspect. Rarely are they a problem if the wheel's tensioned. The
force between the crossings is minimal compared to spoke tension and BB
stress.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training