SOLDERING CABLE ENDS

-Silver Bearing solder

-Phosphoric Acid Flux

-Wash the cable ends afterwards really well so they don't corrode

-NC

"Mike Borean" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

This has probably been asked and answered a number of times.... But....
How do you solder the ends of shift/brake cables. I have tried with a
couple of different solders and flux to no avail. The solder just keeps
dripping off. What is the trick?

I've never had a problem. Make sure you heat the cable up before applying
the solder.

Mike Borean said:

This has probably been asked and answered a number of times.... But.... How
do you solder the ends of shift/brake cables. I have tried with a couple of
different solders and flux to no avail. The solder just keeps dripping off.
What is the trick?

Thanks in advance..
Mike B

They're probably stainless steel. It's not possible to solder stainless
steel easily. Try one of the crimp lug things.

Marty

Mike Borean said:

How do you solder the ends of shift/brake cables. I have
tried with a couple of different solders and flux to no avail.
The solder just keeps dripping off. What is the trick?

I've done it [long ago] by first cleaning the cable ends with paint
thinner, then applying an acid etchant before soldering with acid-flux
solder. Cable tips are a lot quicker and easier.

--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)

Marty said:

Mike Borean said:

This has probably been asked and answered a number of times....
But.... How
do you solder the ends of shift/brake cables. I have tried with a
couple of
different solders and flux to no avail. The solder just keeps
dripping off.
What is the trick?

Thanks in advance..
Mike B

They're probably stainless steel. It's not possible to solder stainless
steel easily.

It's only hard to solder steel if you don't have the correct equipment.
It's as easy as soldering copper if you DO have the right equipment.

Pay Attention:

Flux:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611760433&ccitem=

That type of flux has Flourine in it. Please use adequate ventilation.
It is a water based paste. Keep the jar in a plastic bag. If it
dries out, dribble some water in the container, and get an old
screwdriver or something like it and jab/crush/mix the water into the
dried flux.

Do not touch the flux with your bare hands. If you do, rinse with fresh
water immediately.

Silver solder, 56%:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611760409&ccitem=

You cannot get away with what Radio Shack sells as "Silver Bearing
Solder". Don't Even Try.

You might want to experiment with bits of old clean cable first.

Method:

Step 1. READ THE MSDS SHEET FOR THE FLUX! Use Personal Protective
Equipment, like safety glasses, and gloves. I recommend blue synthetic
surgical gloves just to keep the flux away from your skin. I recommend
Uvex safety glasses, as it is a shameless plug for a Rhode Island company.

2. Use a degreaser to clean the end of the cable. Rinse thoroughly and
leave wet. Do not touch the end of the cable with your hands until you
are finished.

3. Dip the end of the cable in the flux, getting a pretty good glob on
there, maybe about the size of a pea. Spread it around with a popsicle
stick or other disposable item. This should coat about 1/2 to 1 inch of
cable. If the cable end doesn't look globby, you didn't use enough
flux. Never enough flux. If there is melted flux left over when you
are done, like a glaze (ideal situation), it can be washed off with hot
water.

4. Grab your propane torch. Heat the end of the cable until the flux
melts (1100 Degrees F). The end of the cable will glow slightly. Touch
the end of the solder to the fluxed end of the cable. You may want to
preheat the end of the solder while you're melting the flux at the same
time.

If all is well, the cable will wick up the silver solder as if you are
conventionally soldering stranded copper wire with tin/lead solder.

A variation of this would be to take a half inch of silver solder and
wrap it around the cable end, and coat the whole thing with plenty of
flux. Make It Look Globby. Heat until the flux and solder melts and
wicks into the cable. While still hot, flick off any excess.

I have always done the former; not the latter as it wastes silver,
however the latter should give easier good results for a newbie.

5. Let cool. Wash away any excess flux under hot water. Use a brass
brush or small steel wire brush to help things along.

6. Put away flux and solder in a safe place. Wash your hands!

After learning how to braze with silver solder, as you just did, you
will want to use these supplies for other projects. Be sure to keep the
flux jar in a baggie.

For small things like cable ends and other small items, a propane torch
is enough. However, for anything larger, like lugs and Reynolds tubing,
Oxy-Acetylene is the way to go.

Workholding and helpers may vary. Please use common sense and standard
safety practices.

--
BMO

Boyle M. Owl said:

Marty said:

Mike Borean said:

This has probably been asked and answered a number of times....
But.... How
do you solder the ends of shift/brake cables. I have tried with a
couple of
different solders and flux to no avail. The solder just keeps
dripping off.
What is the trick?

Thanks in advance..
Mike B

They're probably stainless steel. It's not possible to solder
stainless steel easily.

It's only hard to solder steel if you don't have the correct equipment.
It's as easy as soldering copper if you DO have the right equipment.

Pay Attention:

Flux:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611760433&ccitem=

That type of flux has Flourine in it. Please use adequate ventilation.
It is a water based paste. Keep the jar in a plastic bag. If it
dries out, dribble some water in the container, and get an old
screwdriver or something like it and jab/crush/mix the water into the
dried flux.

Do not touch the flux with your bare hands. If you do, rinse with fresh
water immediately.

Silver solder, 56%:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611760409&ccitem=

You cannot get away with what Radio Shack sells as "Silver Bearing
Solder". Don't Even Try.

You might want to experiment with bits of old clean cable first.

Method:

Step 1. READ THE MSDS SHEET FOR THE FLUX! Use Personal Protective
Equipment, like safety glasses, and gloves. I recommend blue synthetic
surgical gloves just to keep the flux away from your skin. I recommend
Uvex safety glasses, as it is a shameless plug for a Rhode Island company.

2. Use a degreaser to clean the end of the cable. Rinse thoroughly and
leave wet. Do not touch the end of the cable with your hands until you
are finished.

3. Dip the end of the cable in the flux, getting a pretty good glob on
there, maybe about the size of a pea. Spread it around with a popsicle
stick or other disposable item. This should coat about 1/2 to 1 inch of
cable. If the cable end doesn't look globby, you didn't use enough
flux. Never enough flux. If there is melted flux left over when you
are done, like a glaze (ideal situation), it can be washed off with hot
water.

4. Grab your propane torch. Heat the end of the cable until the flux
melts (1100 Degrees F). The end of the cable will glow slightly. Touch
the end of the solder to the fluxed end of the cable. You may want to
preheat the end of the solder while you're melting the flux at the same
time.

If all is well, the cable will wick up the silver solder as if you are
conventionally soldering stranded copper wire with tin/lead solder.

A variation of this would be to take a half inch of silver solder and
wrap it around the cable end, and coat the whole thing with plenty of
flux. Make It Look Globby. Heat until the flux and solder melts and
wicks into the cable. While still hot, flick off any excess.

I have always done the former; not the latter as it wastes silver,
however the latter should give easier good results for a newbie.

5. Let cool. Wash away any excess flux under hot water. Use a brass
brush or small steel wire brush to help things along.

6. Put away flux and solder in a safe place. Wash your hands!

After learning how to braze with silver solder, as you just did, you
will want to use these supplies for other projects. Be sure to keep the
flux jar in a baggie.

For small things like cable ends and other small items, a propane torch
is enough. However, for anything larger, like lugs and Reynolds tubing,
Oxy-Acetylene is the way to go.

Workholding and helpers may vary. Please use common sense and standard
safety practices.

--
BMO

I never said it was impossible I just said it wasn't easy.

Procedure 2:

Slip crimp lug onto cable end.
Compress lug with pliers.

End

Marty

Mike Borean said:

This has probably been asked and answered a number of times.... But.... How
do you solder the ends of shift/brake cables. I have tried with a couple of
different solders and flux to no avail. The solder just keeps dripping off.
What is the trick?

Thanks in advance..
Mike B

As someone else has suggested, degrease the cable first. You can use one
of the spray brake parts degreasers from a hardware store.

--
Bob Wheeler --- http://www.bobwheeler.com/
ECHIP, Inc. ---
Randomness comes in bunches.

On Tue, 3 May 2005 21:28:08 -0700, "Mike Borean" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

This has probably been asked and answered a number of times.... But.... How
do you solder the ends of shift/brake cables. I have tried with a couple of
different solders and flux to no avail. The solder just keeps dripping off.
What is the trick?

Heat with a gas 'torch' cigarette lighter and touch the cable with a
stick of hotmelt adhesive.

Boyle M. Owl said:

Marty said:

Mike Borean said:

This has probably been asked and answered a number of times....
But.... How
do you solder the ends of shift/brake cables. I have tried with a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

couple of
different solders and flux to no avail. The solder just keeps
dripping off.
What is the trick?

Thanks in advance..
Mike B

They're probably stainless steel. It's not possible to solder

stainless

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

steel easily.

It's only hard to solder steel if you don't have the correct

equipment.

Quoted message said:

It's as easy as soldering copper if you DO have the right

equipment.

Quoted message said:

Pay Attention:

Flux:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611760433&ccitem=

Quoted message said:

Huge, long and unnecessary procedure snipped.

Just go to the hardware store, get some acid plumber's flux and a roll
of plumber's solder, clean the cable end,put some flux on it, heat-I
use a propane torch-touch the solder, wipe with a bit of steel wool and
it's done. Silver solder is unnecessary. The reason the solder won't
stick is that today's cables are made out of stainless steel which
would require silver solder if you were making bike frames but solder
ends? Not necessary.
Phil Brown

Marty said:

I never said it was impossible I just said it wasn't easy.

Procedure 2:

Slip crimp lug onto cable end.
Compress lug with pliers.

But that's not the answer to his question.

And yes, it's easy. It's also not a bad skill (silver
soldering/brazing) to learn.

Some people don't like the look of crimps, hence the silver solder.

--
BMO

philcycles said:

Huge, long and unnecessary procedure snipped.

That's why I titled it "A Treatise".

It's as comprehensive as I could possibly make it. Since he didn't know
how to silver solder, I broke it down into as simple steps as possible.

Quoted message said:

The reason the solder won't
stick is that today's cables are made out of stainless steel which
would require silver solder

And he asked how to solder the ends of his *quite likely* stainless
steel cables. (silver solder also works on regular steel, btw).

Thus the silver soldering technique.

Quoted message said:

if you were making bike frames but solder
ends? Not necessary.

This is RBT. Emphasis on the T. Since when is all this "necessary"?

If Mike wants to solder the ends of his cables, I vote that we let him
have at it. Telling him to just crimp the ends of his cables is a
non-answer.

--
BMO - Geek For Life.

Well, here's the scoop in search for tech archives titles-

DIY cable solder

soldering cable ends

Mike Borean said:

This has probably been asked and answered a number of
times... But... How do you solder the ends of shift/brake cables.
I have tried with a couple of different solders and flux to no
avail. The solder just keeps dripping off. What is the trick?

This sounds like the "No loose ends" syndrome. I take it you refold a
pointed end on the toilet paper after use and have it pay out on the
back side. There is no need to do anything to cable ends unless you
have poorly designed brakes and derailleurs. In fact, if a soldered
cable end is compressed at the end, it will take on a form that will
not spring back into the original round cable.

[email hidden]

On Tue, 3 May 2005 21:28:08 -0700, "Mike Borean" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

This has probably been asked and answered a number of times.... But.... How
do you solder the ends of shift/brake cables. I have tried with a couple of
different solders and flux to no avail. The solder just keeps dripping off.
What is the trick?

The tricks depend upon the material of the cable to be soldered, the
equipment available, and the solder and flux. In my experience, only
a limited number of combinations of technique, solder, flux and cable
will produce a successful result.

Some notes:

None of the flux-core solders I've tried have worked with either
stainless or zinc-plated cables.

High-tin solders (including the lead-free versions) have worked better
for me than 50/50, 60/40 and other lead-based alloys. (In most cases,
the lead/tin solders have been dismal failures.)

Acid-type plumber's paste flux has worked in some cases, but requires
a very close temp control; get the cable just a trifle too hot, and
the flux seems to become an antiflux instead, preventing solder
wicking instead of promoting it.

The two solder-and-flux pastes I've tried didn't do anything useful;
they neither acted as fluxes nor solders, and didn't even tin the end
of the cable...which would have been a very useful result if it had
been achieved.

Dipping the end of the cable in a 2% (approximately; I've used
solutions in the range of 0.5% to 4%) phosphoric acid solution has
been very useful with stainless steel cables. With zinc-plated
cables, this instantly removes the zinc plating, which ensures that
the cable will rust quickly if not successfully soldered.

Using a high-temp electric soldering gun has had a very mixed set of
results. It allows much more convenient temp control, but doesn't
seem to get hot enough for some stainless, at least not using the
fluxes and solders I've tried. It's worthless for real silver solder;
it falls short of the required temps by hundreds of degrees F.

Brazing or silver-soldering with a proper torch has had a near 100%
success rate on the first attempt for me, but requires much higher
temps than tin-alloy solders. I've had reasonably good results using
just the flux-coated silver solder rods that I've bought from a local
welding supply house, but only on zinc-plated steel wire; stainless
still needs the paste flux with the no-kidding don't-breathe-the-fumes
warnings on the labels.

The real key, however, has been to follow the musician's advice; if
you want to get to the place you seek, practice, practice, practice!
And make notes. Ones that you can understand a month from now. Notes
about things like how far from the wire the tip of the flame was, and
what color the flux was when the solder flowed, etc. Beware of
changing brands of cable; you may have to relearn everything if you
change wire alloys. I've had to deal with a bunch of different types
of cable, some whose composition was just a matter of guesswork. I
will admit that my success rate is still not anywhere near 100% with
tin-based solder, but it's a lot better than it used to be, and
improving.

I should note, though, that I still just crimp a tip on the end of the
cable more often than not. Soldered ends are elegant and pretty and
have much bike-fu in their nature, but I am usually less of a
craftsman and more of a lazy [censored] who would rather have the job
done than have it elegant and pretty. Your mileage may vary.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

"Boyle M. Owl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:9Y4ee.409$2J6.388@lakeread06...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Procedure 2:

Slip crimp lug onto cable end.
Compress lug with pliers.

But that's not the answer to his question.

And yes, it's easy. It's also not a bad skill (silver
soldering/brazing) to learn.

Some people don't like the look of crimps, hence the silver solder.

Soldering - soft or hard - is a much better solution.

A soldered end will not fray, and because it is the same diameter as the
cable, can be removed from the fixing mechanism without fraying, which
allows it to be re-inserted.

A crimped end must have the crimp removed for removal of the cable. In many
case the crimping, or the removal, frays the cable.

Boyle M. Owl said:

philcycles said:

Huge, long and unnecessary procedure snipped.

That's why I titled it "A Treatise".

It's as comprehensive as I could possibly make it. Since he didn't

know

Quoted message said:

how to silver solder, I broke it down into as simple steps as

possible.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The reason the solder won't
stick is that today's cables are made out of stainless steel which
would require silver solder

And he asked how to solder the ends of his *quite likely* stainless
steel cables. (silver solder also works on regular steel, btw).

Thus the silver soldering technique.

Quoted message said:

if you were making bike frames but solder
ends? Not necessary.

This is RBT. Emphasis on the T. Since when is all this "necessary"?

If Mike wants to solder the ends of his cables, I vote that we let

him

Quoted message said:

have at it. Telling him to just crimp the ends of his cables is a
non-answer.

--
BMO - Geek For Life.

I didn't tell him to crimp. I've been soldering ends for-let me
think-35 years. and building frames for 30 so I know all about silver
soldering. It ain't necessary. And trust me, I've got plenty of silver
around.
Phil Brown

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

This sounds like the "No loose ends" syndrome. I take it you refold a
pointed end on the toilet paper after use and have it pay out on the
back side.

whereas jobst simply empties his bowels here in rbt.

Boyle M. Owl said:

philcycles said:

Huge, long and unnecessary procedure snipped.

That's why I titled it "A Treatise".

It's as comprehensive as I could possibly make it. Since he didn't know
how to silver solder, I broke it down into as simple steps as possible.

Quoted message said:

The reason the solder won't
stick is that today's cables are made out of stainless steel which
would require silver solder

And he asked how to solder the ends of his *quite likely* stainless
steel cables. (silver solder also works on regular steel, btw).

Thus the silver soldering technique.

Quoted message said:

if you were making bike frames but solder
ends? Not necessary.

This is RBT. Emphasis on the T. Since when is all this "necessary"?

If Mike wants to solder the ends of his cables, I vote that we let him
have at it. Telling him to just crimp the ends of his cables is a
non-answer.

--
BMO - Geek For Life.

Ok but when someone says solder I take it that they mean solder a
tin/lead alloy with a an electric soldering iron. I made the mistake of
presuming he didn't have access to silver solder, flux and some kind of
torch.
Tin/lead soldering is a totally different ballgame to silver soldering
which is more like brazing.

A second assumption I made was that he wasn't aware of the difficulties
of working with stainless steel.

If he's not aware of the problems of soldering stainless steel then the
chances are he doesn't have a fully equipped workshop with brazing
equipment.

Whilst brazing is a handy skill to learn, in the end he may just simply
want to stop his cables from fraying.

Marty

In article <[email hidden]>, Marty <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Procedure 2:

Slip crimp lug onto cable end.
Compress lug with pliers.

The advantage to soldering is that you can shove the cable in the
housing without the end of the cable splaying. I have ruined more than
one cable that way. The crimp-on caps distort the cable making it even
harder to remove and reinstall the cable.

I use plumbers flux and solder- works well on stainless steel cables.
While the solder is still molten, I take a rag and run it down the end
of the cable. This removes excess solder and flux and makes a smooth
cable end. Be careful not to burn yourself.

--
Mike DeMicco <[email hidden]>