Solid tyres - Ride Quality

Keiron said:

Any experience with the latest generation of solid tyres, as those from
http://www.greentyre.co.uk ? Can they really be used at highspeeds or in
technical mtb-ing or are they suitable only for coasting down to the pub?

I wonder how beat up the rims get with these solids

Keiron said:

Any experience with the latest generation of solid tyres, as those from
http://www.greentyre.co.uk ? Can they really be used at highspeeds or in
technical mtb-ing or are they suitable only for coasting down to the pub?

Unless you like a rockhard ride, I say none of the above. Remember, air
volume = comfort. If your tires are solid, what happens when you hit a
bump or pothole? NEXT!

bfd <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Unless you like a rockhard ride, I say none of the above. Remember, air
volume = comfort. If your tires are solid, what happens when you hit a
bump or pothole? NEXT!

You've tried the latest incarnations then? i'm not talking about the 80's
junk. Apparently these new models have air bubbles in the polyurethene and
are designed with equvilent psi ratings, as low as 20 should you need it,
not like the ones i had in the 80's which were just rock hard. Also looking
to find whether or not these activities are actually possible (while
remaining safe i.e. are they designed for it) as opposed to comfortable.

Keiron said:

Any experience with the latest generation of solid tyres, as those from
http://www.greentyre.co.uk ? Can they really be used at highspeeds or in
technical mtb-ing or are they suitable only for coasting down to the pub?

They have a prupose. No, really, they do...

Ya know wen you dig out that old bike from the bottom of the garden, and
all the nuts and bolts are rusted solid, and you have no WD40 left?
Well, fit solid tyres and ride a hundred yards. Hey presto, all the nuts
and bolts are loose :-)

Seriously, they are god-awful things. Like riding on bear rims. And a
complete b*****d to fit.

Graham W (de-lurk!)

Keiron said:

bfd <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Unless you like a rockhard ride, I say none of the above. Remember, air
volume = comfort. If your tires are solid, what happens when you hit a
bump or pothole? NEXT!

You've tried the latest incarnations then? i'm not talking about the 80's
junk. Apparently these new models have air bubbles in the polyurethene and
are designed with equvilent psi ratings, as low as 20 should you need it,
not like the ones i had in the 80's which were just rock hard. Also looking
to find whether or not these activities are actually possible (while
remaining safe i.e. are they designed for it) as opposed to comfortable.

What's the purpose of the "air bubbles?" Is it to provide comfort? IF
so, why not just get regular tires and be done with it?

Is the reason you're asking about *solid* tires is because you're
afraid to get flats? If so, what happens if one of these "air bubbles"
somehow pop? Can it be fixed? What happens to the ride that these air
bubbles are suppose to provide?

You may want to read Sheldon's excellent article on Tires, including
his section on airless ones:

http://sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#airless

In article <[email hidden]>,

Keiron said:

Any experience with the latest generation of solid tyres, as those
from http://www.greentyre.co.uk ? Can they really be used at
highspeeds or in technical mtb-ing or are they suitable only for
coasting down to the pub?

They roll like a 30 psi tire with the comfort of a 200 psi tire. In
short they are the worst of both worlds. The only advantage is that
they cannot puncture.

Tim McNamara said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Keiron said:

Any experience with the latest generation of solid tyres, as those
from http://www.greentyre.co.uk ? Can they really be used at
highspeeds or in technical mtb-ing or are they suitable only for
coasting down to the pub?

They roll like a 30 psi tire with the comfort of a 200 psi tire. In
short they are the worst of both worlds. The only advantage is that
they cannot puncture.

So they solved the wet traction problem. Or is it still a skid-fest?

Ron

"Keiron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Any experience with the latest generation of solid tyres, as those from
http://www.greentyre.co.uk ? Can they really be used at highspeeds or in
technical mtb-ing or are they suitable only for coasting down to the pub?

Well a number of us are using the Air Free Tires from
http://www.airfreetires.com/
I know several other riders that are using them and they are quite happy
with them.
So far many people who find out I am using them Ok then they go off and buy
them too.
I don't really see or feel any big difference between the regular tires and
the Air Free tires.
Except they do not go flat on you and they don't need a air pump.
Yeah they maybe weigh a little more (depends on the tires tubes, liners, and
slime junk though).
But the weight is more than offest by the fact you don't need to carry along
flat repair tools and stuff.
I haven't ridden them in the rain, so I can't say for sure how well they do
in the rain yet.
When you first get them they seem to have a bit more rolling resistance,
which seems to be from the mould release agent they use on the tires. Once
that is worn off some the tires start losing that extra drag then and feel
like normal.
I put a set of the 26" tires on my Shopping bike, making it pretty much a
low maintenance bike now.
I have a set of 700c35's on my commuter bike and they don't feel any
different from the regular 700c35's.
I did get a set of the narrow 700c20's for my road bike, but the Vredesteins
on my road bike feel so good, I haven't been motivated to put them on yet.
I have not had any wheel or rim problems.

Keiron said:

Any experience with the latest generation of solid tyres, as those from
http://www.greentyre.co.uk ? Can they really be used at highspeeds or in
technical mtb-ing or are they suitable only for coasting down to the pub?

Dear Keiron,

Here's some road tire data from http://www.greentyre.co.uk/tyres.html.
You have to go into each model's window--there's no convenient table
for comparisons.

tire rim size grams "psi" model
------ -------- ----- ---- -----
700x28 12.5-16 540 70 esprit same weight, different rim width
700x28 14-16 540 70 esprit same weight, different rim width
700x28 16-18 540 70 esprit same weight, different rim width

700x35 17-19 700 70 marathon, same as millenium?
700x35 21-23 810 70 marathon, same as millenium?

28 x 1.5 26-28 970 60 messenger

700x35 17-19 700 70 millenium, same as marathon?
700x35 21-23 810 70 millenium, same as marathon?

700x20 12.5-14 320 100 racer

700x22/23 14-16 365 95 sprint

The Millenium and Marathon tires appear to be identical in every
respect, right down to the tread in the picture.

The Esprit somehow weighs the same in three different rim widths.

Despite the claim that the tire weight "is usually comparable to
conventional pneumatics and in some cases more than 20% lighter," the
average for the ten road models above is 629.5 grams per tire, while
typical road tires in the nashbar catalogue are often below 300 grams.

This does not inspire confidence in the site's other claims.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Tim McNamara said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Keiron said:

Any experience with the latest generation of solid tyres, as those
from http://www.greentyre.co.uk ? Can they really be used at
highspeeds or in technical mtb-ing or are they suitable only for
coasting down to the pub?

They roll like a 30 psi tire with the comfort of a 200 psi tire. In
short they are the worst of both worlds. The only advantage is that
they cannot puncture.

OK, so they are really terrible - but at least they can't get worse! 🙂

Mark J.

Mark said:

Tim McNamara said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Keiron said:

Any experience with the latest generation of solid tyres, as those
from http://www.greentyre.co.uk ? Can they really be used at
highspeeds or in technical mtb-ing or are they suitable only for
coasting down to the pub?

They roll like a 30 psi tire with the comfort of a 200 psi tire. In
short they are the worst of both worlds. The only advantage is that
they cannot puncture.

OK, so they are really terrible - but at least they can't get worse! 🙂

Mark J.

Dear Mark,

Pneumatic tires slowly lose pressure, but you can pump them back up.

Solid tires with plastic-foam bodies will slowly deteriorate.

Think bubble-wrap versus a balloon. 🙂

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

What's the purpose of the "air bubbles?" Is it to provide comfort? IF
so, why not just get regular tires and be done with it?

Quoted message said:

Is the reason you're asking about *solid* tires is because you're
afraid to get flats?

Not afraid of flats, just interested for the sake of it, why not.

If so, what happens if one of these "air bubbles"

Quoted message said:

somehow pop? Can it be fixed? What happens to the ride that these air
bubbles are suppose to provide?

Given but as you seem to have indicated 'air bubbles' i would suggest is a
mis-nomer. I suspect there is air contained within a matrix of the material,
which only disapates as the tyre wears.

Quoted message said:

You may want to read Sheldon's excellent article on Tires, including
his section on airless ones:

I have, many-a-time. Respect Mr Browns opinion very highly but was hoping
for the view of others too.

Many thanks

Cheers Carl,

just wondering on your conclusionary point about weight. Do you think, as
Earl suggests, that the weight comparison is based on standard tyre and tube
as opposed to just the tyre (although admitidly that's not what the site
seems to claim)? and perhaps the variety of tyre, ie. mtb or road? I'm don't
know enough about the weights or components to know but i'll certainly look
in to it as i fully agree that it's important to test the reliabilty of
their (any companys) claims.

Cheers

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Keiron said:

Any experience with the latest generation of solid tyres, as those from
http://www.greentyre.co.uk ? Can they really be used at highspeeds or in
technical mtb-ing or are they suitable only for coasting down to the

pub?

Quoted message said:

Dear Keiron,

Here's some road tire data from http://www.greentyre.co.uk/tyres.html.
You have to go into each model's window--there's no convenient table
for comparisons.

tire rim size grams "psi" model
------ -------- ----- ---- -----
700x28 12.5-16 540 70 esprit same weight, different rim width
700x28 14-16 540 70 esprit same weight, different rim width
700x28 16-18 540 70 esprit same weight, different rim width

700x35 17-19 700 70 marathon, same as millenium?
700x35 21-23 810 70 marathon, same as millenium?

28 x 1.5 26-28 970 60 messenger

700x35 17-19 700 70 millenium, same as marathon?
700x35 21-23 810 70 millenium, same as marathon?

700x20 12.5-14 320 100 racer

700x22/23 14-16 365 95 sprint

The Millenium and Marathon tires appear to be identical in every
respect, right down to the tread in the picture.

The Esprit somehow weighs the same in three different rim widths.

Despite the claim that the tire weight "is usually comparable to
conventional pneumatics and in some cases more than 20% lighter," the
average for the ten road models above is 629.5 grams per tire, while
typical road tires in the nashbar catalogue are often below 300 grams.

This does not inspire confidence in the site's other claims.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

"Keiron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cheers Carl,

just wondering on your conclusionary point about weight. Do you think, as
Earl suggests, that the weight comparison is based on standard tyre and
tube
as opposed to just the tyre (although admitidly that's not what the site
seems to claim)? and perhaps the variety of tyre, ie. mtb or road? I'm
don't
know enough about the weights or components to know but i'll certainly
look
in to it as i fully agree that it's important to test the reliabilty of
their (any companys) claims.

Cheers

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Keiron said:

Any experience with the latest generation of solid tyres, as those from
http://www.greentyre.co.uk ? Can they really be used at highspeeds or
in
technical mtb-ing or are they suitable only for coasting down to the

pub?

Quoted message said:

Dear Keiron,

Here's some road tire data from http://www.greentyre.co.uk/tyres.html.
You have to go into each model's window--there's no convenient table
for comparisons.

tire rim size grams "psi" model
------ -------- ----- ---- -----
700x28 12.5-16 540 70 esprit same weight, different rim width
700x28 14-16 540 70 esprit same weight, different rim width
700x28 16-18 540 70 esprit same weight, different rim width

700x35 17-19 700 70 marathon, same as millenium?
700x35 21-23 810 70 marathon, same as millenium?

28 x 1.5 26-28 970 60 messenger

700x35 17-19 700 70 millenium, same as marathon?
700x35 21-23 810 70 millenium, same as marathon?

700x20 12.5-14 320 100 racer

700x22/23 14-16 365 95 sprint

The Millenium and Marathon tires appear to be identical in every
respect, right down to the tread in the picture.

The Esprit somehow weighs the same in three different rim widths.

Despite the claim that the tire weight "is usually comparable to
conventional pneumatics and in some cases more than 20% lighter," the
average for the ten road models above is 629.5 grams per tire, while
typical road tires in the nashbar catalogue are often below 300 grams.

This does not inspire confidence in the site's other claims.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

I do not know if the British company is selling the same types of tires that
AirFree does or not.
But the British company's specs seem to be off or hastily done on their
website. So I do not know.
An Airfree 700c20 tire was advertised as weighing 420g which seems to be
about right.
Taking a 280g road tire and adding a tube to it would putit somewhere in the
360-370g weight range, so the weight difference isn't too bad.
You might notice some of the weight difference if you have been running
lighter weight tires like for racing though.
If you were running a 32-36 spoke conventional wheelset you may not notice
any differences.
Someone running a ultra-light wheelset with a low spoke count, would
probably notice the extra weight, if they had racing tires on their wheels
too.

I am running the Laguna Hybrid tires on my commuter bike. They weigh in at
690gm are comparable to a 700c35 at 90psi, they seem to feel like it too.
A Michelin TransWorld City 700c35 tire was advertised as weighing 480g (the
700c40 weighs 615g) and a Michilin Air Stop tube weighs in a 141g.
That is about 621 grams them for a Michilin tire and tube for one wheel. Now
there is wether you want to include Slime or not, or a Mr Tuffy tire liner,
and of course how much does the rim liner tape weigh too. Slime comes in 8oz
bottles, so if I added 4oz per wheel, the 4ounces add about 114 grams of
weight too. I saw in the Mr Tuffy FAQ's that they add about 2ounces of
weight to a tire so that works out to around 57 grams.

Tim McNamara said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Keiron said:

Any experience with the latest generation of solid tyres, as those
from http://www.greentyre.co.uk ? Can they really be used at
highspeeds or in technical mtb-ing or are they suitable only for
coasting down to the pub?

They roll like a 30 psi tire with the comfort of a 200 psi tire. In
short they are the worst of both worlds. The only advantage is that
they cannot puncture.

I concur with most of what you say. I have tried the espirit version
(700x28). The ride quality can only be described as alarming. I tried
them on two different rims. In both they squeaked when cornering as
they squirmed on the rim. I did a couple of miles but then gave up
with them as I couldn't stand the noise and didn't feel secure when
cornering. Yes, I was using the correct width tyre for the rims in
question.

Your are wrong to say that their only advantage is puncture proofing.
The road versions are, width for width, much lower profile than
pneumatics, so that you can fit wider tyres without fouling the
frame/mudguards.

I can safely say that I will never use these tyres again.

Andrew

Keiron said:

Cheers Carl,

just wondering on your conclusionary point about weight. Do you think, as
Earl suggests, that the weight comparison is based on standard tyre and tube
as opposed to just the tyre (although admitidly that's not what the site
seems to claim)? and perhaps the variety of tyre, ie. mtb or road? I'm don't
know enough about the weights or components to know but i'll certainly look
in to it as i fully agree that it's important to test the reliabilty of
their (any companys) claims.

Cheers

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Keiron said:

Any experience with the latest generation of solid tyres, as those from
http://www.greentyre.co.uk ? Can they really be used at highspeeds or in
technical mtb-ing or are they suitable only for coasting down to the

pub?

Quoted message said:

Dear Keiron,

Here's some road tire data from http://www.greentyre.co.uk/tyres.html.
You have to go into each model's window--there's no convenient table
for comparisons.

tire rim size grams "psi" model
------ -------- ----- ---- -----
700x28 12.5-16 540 70 esprit same weight, different rim width
700x28 14-16 540 70 esprit same weight, different rim width
700x28 16-18 540 70 esprit same weight, different rim width

700x35 17-19 700 70 marathon, same as millenium?
700x35 21-23 810 70 marathon, same as millenium?

28 x 1.5 26-28 970 60 messenger

700x35 17-19 700 70 millenium, same as marathon?
700x35 21-23 810 70 millenium, same as marathon?

700x20 12.5-14 320 100 racer

700x22/23 14-16 365 95 sprint

The Millenium and Marathon tires appear to be identical in every
respect, right down to the tread in the picture.

The Esprit somehow weighs the same in three different rim widths.

Despite the claim that the tire weight "is usually comparable to
conventional pneumatics and in some cases more than 20% lighter," the
average for the ten road models above is 629.5 grams per tire, while
typical road tires in the nashbar catalogue are often below 300 grams.

This does not inspire confidence in the site's other claims.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Dear Keiron,

Good point--I neglected the weight of the tube (and rim strip, come to
think of it) that the solid tires lack.

A quick look at road tubes at Performance shows them varying from 49
to 139 grams:

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/sub_cat.cfm?subcategory_id=5411

Weights also vary wildly on rim tape, from 3 to 55 grams, but the
heavier ones tend to be special or two strips:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings/components.php?type=rimtape

Adding tubes and rim strips does help the comparison, but the solid
tire site is awfully long on broad claims and short on specific
comparisons and details.

For example, rolling resistance matters more on level rides than tire
weight.

Testing shows most road tires with tubes have rolling resistances from
0.0040 to 0.0080. I suspect that there's a good reason that there are
no figures for rolling resistance on the solid tire site. The usual
equation for reducing rolling resistance is to have as much air and as
little rubber as possible, a scheme that the solid tire stands on its
head.

I could be surprised and learn that the solid tires have hardly any
more rolling resistance than normal tires. But I doubt it. An mtb
rider can usually pick up one or two mph on pavement just by replacing
knobby tires with slicks and raising the air pressure.

Air is an almost perfect spring, but rubber and plastic waste a lot of
energy in squirm and heat. If the solid tire doesn't squirm and squish
and deform a lot around its air bubbles, it's going to need an awfully
strong wheel to handle the shock.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Keiron said:

Any experience with the latest generation of solid tyres, as those from
http://www.greentyre.co.uk ? Can they really be used at highspeeds or in
technical mtb-ing or are they suitable only for coasting down to the pub?

These tires have been reviewed extensively by multiple posters both
here and on uk.rec.cycling. Google these two groups for "greentyre" and
"airfree", perhaps in the body not just the subject. I think most of
the reviews are older but nothing has changed since then, in either
materials or methods.

The consensus:
-they are not suitable for mtb, at all
-use at high speeds is problematic.

-they are ideal for use on trainers (don't wear out, harsh ride
irrelevant)
-they work well on those British racing tricycles (don't wear out,
harsh ride not so much a problem)
-they are ideal for utility bicycles used infrequently for the
occasional jaunt
-they can be used for more serious riding, but with difficult
compromises
-the ultimate in low rolling resistance would be a steel tire on a
steel track- wait, I think those are found on trains.

Apart from the specialized uses like trains, trainers and tricycles,
and the general use for utility bicycles ridden lightly and
infrequently, whatever the authors of these various reviews had to say,
it seems to me that it has all been made obsolete by the introduction
of the Schwalbe Marathon Plus. That tire has 1cm of rubber between the
tire and the road, yet is pneumatic; available in sizes from 700x28 up.
Now, that tire is way heavier than the foam tires with tubes &c, and
won't fit racing bicycles, but for the uses most people would be
considering either for, 700x28 and up is OK.

I suppose the 1cm figure must be for the larger sizes, like the 700x35
that was the first model introduced. Still, even in 700x28, you are
going to have both air and an awesome amount of rubber. The rolling
resistance is supposedly not too bad because most of that rubber
thickness is a very soft and flexible rubber, it is not there for wear
or durability, just for thickness, and so puncture resistance.

Earl Bollinger said:

I am running the Laguna Hybrid tires on my commuter bike. They weigh in at
690gm are comparable to a 700c35 at 90psi, they seem to feel like it too.

I run 700x32 tires and at 90psi found them to be nearly unbearable.
They work well at below 65psi and seem to be ideal at around 50-55psi.
I can't tell for sure, because I only inflate them to 60-65 and then
notice that I reach the ideal about one month later. I don't have a
separate gauge and so don't check to find out what that pressure is.

I can't imagine running a 700x35 at 90psi, unless your weight is at
least 15 stone.

On the other hand, I certainly wouldn't worry about rim denting with
one of these solid rubber things. If you think about it, they obviously
protect the rim from denting much better than the regular. I would
however worry about eventual cracking, of both the rim and the frame,
and many load-bearing components.