Sore cheeks when swimming

On 11 Dec 2003 15:21:49 -0800,

(John Schreiber) said:

Any ideas?

Do you grit your teeth or clench your jaw while swimming?

Donal Fagan AIA Donal@DonalO'Fagan.com (Anglicise the name to reply by e-mail)

our coach just posted a 'breathing tip' on our team website:
mastersmvnswim.orgmastersmvnswim.orgOpen ↗

Don't gasp or Blow! Breath control is fundamental to efficient swimming. You need to train your
breathing for effective performance. Important Breathing Tips: -Inhalation: Should be an easy reflex
action - don't gasp in air! If exhalation is adequate, air will flow in on its own! -Exhalation:
Always flow the air out easily. Never blow the air out forcefully, because this causes
breathlessness and loss of breathing control resulting in premature fatigue. Exhalation should be at
least twice as long as the inward breath

"John Schreiber" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am a recreational/fitness swimmer and when I swim for more than about 30 minutes my cheeks
sometimes get sore. The pain is near the hinge of my jaw, back almost by the ear. To describe what
I'm talking about . . . have you ever tried to imitate the sound of a squirrel by pinching air in
your cheeks and making a squeaking noise? It almost feels like I'm forcing air somewhere it
shouldn't go.

If I stand up, the pain mostly goes away. Rubbing the area seems to help. As soon as I start
swimming again, it comes back. Sometimes it's not so bad and I can swim through it, other times
it's too much. As I'm swimming more, it seems like it's getting worse.

Any ideas?

NOTE: Google the groups for the above subject line and most of what you get won't relate to
swimming (I learn new things every day).

"DaKitty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:XNdCb.3933$m83.3762@fed1read01...

Quoted message said:

Don't gasp or Blow! Breath control is fundamental to efficient swimming. You need to train

your

Quoted message said:

breathing for effective performance. Important Breathing Tips: -Inhalation: Should be an easy
reflex action - don't gasp in air! If exhalation is adequate, air will flow in on its own! -
Exhalation: Always flow the air out easily. Never blow the air out forcefully, because this causes
breathlessness and loss of breathing

control

Quoted message said:

resulting in premature fatigue. Exhalation should be at least twice as

long

Quoted message said:

as the inward breath

who taught you this?

diablo said:

"DaKitty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XNdCb.3933$m83.3762@fed1read01...

Quoted message said:

Don't gasp or Blow! Breath control is fundamental to efficient swimming. You need to train

your

Quoted message said:

breathing for effective performance. Important Breathing Tips: -Inhalation: Should be an easy
reflex action - don't gasp in air! If exhalation is adequate, air will flow in on its own! -
Exhalation: Always flow the air out easily. Never blow the air out forcefully, because this causes
breathlessness and loss of breathing

control

Quoted message said:

resulting in premature fatigue. Exhalation should be at least twice as

long

Quoted message said:

as the inward breath

who taught you this?

Yeah, if I don't blow the air out with some force, I don't get it all out and then I don't get
enough new air.

"M.W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

who taught you this?

Yeah, if I don't blow the air out with some force, I don't get it all out and then I don't get
enough new air.

Forceful breathing is essential in conditioning the intercostal muscles. Its effective the point
that some company is pushing some ventilation-training device..i remember seeing it at the ASCA
conference..

John Schreiber said:

I am a recreational/fitness swimmer and when I swim for more than about 30 minutes my cheeks
sometimes get sore. The pain is near the hinge of my jaw, back almost by the ear. To describe what
I'm talking about . . . have you ever tried to imitate the sound of a squirrel by pinching air in
your cheeks and making a squeaking noise? It almost feels like I'm forcing air somewhere it
shouldn't go.

If I stand up, the pain mostly goes away. Rubbing the area seems to help. As soon as I start
swimming again, it comes back. Sometimes it's not so bad and I can swim through it, other times
it's too much. As I'm swimming more, it seems like it's getting worse.

Any ideas?

NOTE: Google the groups for the above subject line and most of what you get won't relate to
swimming (I learn new things every day).

This could also be referred pain from a bad tooth or from your ears, and the change in body position
makes it more evident. If it is a tooth or TMJ, your dentist can make the diagnosis.

You might be blowing too hard or doing some other little habit that is making this happen. Do you
twist your lips out of the water? Is it the same on both sides? Madelaine

Quoted message said:

John Schreiber said:

I am a recreational/fitness swimmer and when I swim for more than about 30 minutes my cheeks
sometimes get sore. The pain is near the hinge of my jaw, back almost by the ear. To describe
what I'm talking about . . . have you ever tried to imitate the sound of a squirrel by pinching
air in your cheeks and making a squeaking noise? It almost feels like I'm forcing air somewhere
it shouldn't go.

I am wondering if your jaw is tilting sideway when you open your mouth to breathe. A few years ago,
I got hit in the face with a soccer ball and it forced my jaw out of the socket at the hinge (just
for a second or two). Since then, I have to do exercises to get it to 'track' right and those
exercises include pushing it sideways and holding it there for a few seconds. When I bite down on
food sometimes, my jaw will go out of alignment. It is like having an articulated jaw....Anyway, if
your jaw is going sideways, that could cause the pain at the TMJ area. It wasn't designed to flex
that direction too much, after all.

Pat in TX

Quoted message said:

Forceful breathing is essential in conditioning the intercostal muscles.

Its

Quoted message said:

effective the point that some company is pushing some ventilation-training device..i remember
seeing it at the ASCA conference..

Was it this: roadrunnersports.comProductPg.jspOpen ↗
8890&BV_SessionID=@@@@0970586460.1071264579@@@@&BV_EngineID=fadcjdefgfhkbekgcgecfeedg.0 I asked my
physical therapist if this would really help improve someone's lung power, and she said that it
would be beneficial.

Pat in TX

thats the chap, the Powerlung. Was it Darren Mew who used it and endorses it? one of the brit
breaststroke crew...

"Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Forceful breathing is essential in conditioning the intercostal muscles.

Its

Quoted message said:

effective the point that some company is pushing some

ventilation-training

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

device..i remember seeing it at the ASCA conference..

Was it this:

roadrunnersports.comProductPg.jspOpen ↗
8890&BV_SessionID=@@@@0970586460.1071264579@@@@&BV_EngineID=fadcjdefgfhkbekgcgecfeedg.0

Quoted message said:

I asked my physical therapist if this would really help improve someone's lung power, and she said
that it would be beneficial.

Pat in TX

[email hidden] (John Schreiber) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I am a recreational/fitness swimmer and when I swim for more than about 30 minutes my cheeks
sometimes get sore. The pain is near the hinge of my jaw, back almost by the ear. To describe what
I'm talking about . . . have you ever tried to imitate the sound of a squirrel by pinching air in
your cheeks and making a squeaking noise? It almost feels like I'm forcing air somewhere it
shouldn't go.

If I stand up, the pain mostly goes away. Rubbing the area seems to help. As soon as I start
swimming again, it comes back. Sometimes it's not so bad and I can swim through it, other times
it's too much. As I'm swimming more, it seems like it's getting worse.

Any ideas?

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I'm not gritting or clenching my teeth. The pain is equal on both sides. I've been to the dentist
recently with no problems reported. I don't think the problem is ear or sinus related because it
doesn't change with depth or by doing hand suction on the ear.

I do tend to exhale fairly forcefully just before I breathe. (Not massive force, but I am underwater
after all.) I generally finish exhaling just as my mouth comes above the water. I will have to
experiment to see if I can get enough air in and out with less force.

Should I be exhaling through my nose or my mouth when swimming freestyle?

It doesn't seem to me that my mouth is out of the water long enough for me to get enough air unless
I inhale fairly vigorously. I find it hard to imagine exhaling smoothly so that when breathing in
the air would just "flow in on its own".

Thanks John Schreiber

"diablo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"DaKitty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XNdCb.3933$m83.3762@fed1read01...

Quoted message said:

Don't gasp or Blow! Breath control is fundamental to efficient swimming. You need to train

your

Quoted message said:

breathing for effective performance. Important Breathing Tips: -Inhalation: Should be an easy
reflex action - don't gasp in air! If exhalation is adequate, air will flow in on its own! -
Exhalation: Always flow the air out easily. Never blow the air out forcefully, because this
causes breathlessness and loss of breathing

control

Quoted message said:

resulting in premature fatigue. Exhalation should be at least twice as

long

Quoted message said:

as the inward breath

who taught you this?

I think I put in the intro of the post that it is coming from our coaches.

The same one that got me to drop 8 seconds in 3 weeks on my 100m SCM sprint, and the same ones that
have guys qualifying for the Olympic events.

And a short note to other posters in this thread, since I don't feel like replying to individual
posts... It seems to me some people here are confused about the terminology, and want to pick a good
advice apart. Go ahead, rationalize it away. Your loss. Sorry I wasted my time sharing it with you.

Yeah, there is a BIG difference between relaxed breathing, and breath control, vs. forceful
belabored breathing that wastes energy, and doesn't give you the 'bang' for the effort.

Something I noticed in this group, seems that people in here often confuse technique drills
with swimming itself. I'm starting to find the bickering and misinformation in this group a
waste of my time.

"M.W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

diablo said:

"DaKitty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XNdCb.3933$m83.3762@fed1read01...

Quoted message said:

Don't gasp or Blow! Breath control is fundamental to efficient swimming. You need to train

your

Quoted message said:

breathing for effective performance. Important Breathing Tips: -Inhalation: Should be an easy
reflex action - don't gasp in air! If exhalation is adequate, air will flow in on its own! -
Exhalation: Always flow the air out easily. Never blow the air out forcefully, because this
causes breathlessness and loss of breathing

control

Quoted message said:

resulting in premature fatigue. Exhalation should be at least twice as

long

Quoted message said:

as the inward breath

who taught you this?

Yeah, if I don't blow the air out with some force, I don't get it all out and then I don't get
enough new air.

Define "Force" ??? vs. Some Force? Oh, In my case, breathing comes naturally. I hardly have to
strain myself to breathe, swimming or not. Maybe someday you too will learn how to breathe.

all i asked was who taught you that. i didn't imply anything as to the value of the advice.

my own personal opinion of breathing is that like anything it has to be trained. relaxed slow
breathing has its place, but so does forceful inhalation and exhalation, regarding training the
intercostal muscles and diaphragm.

i'm sorry you think you're being attacked, then again if everyone agreed all the time, it'd be a
pretty boring place. i think you're taking it a bit too personally, but if i've contributed to your
obvious state of malcontent i apologise.

"DaKitty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SUaDb.14278$m83.14016@fed1read01...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

who taught you this?

I think I put in the intro of the post that it is coming from our coaches.

The same one that got me to drop 8 seconds in 3 weeks on my 100m SCM

sprint,

Quoted message said:

and the same ones that have guys qualifying for the Olympic events.

And a short note to other posters in this thread, since I don't feel like replying to individual
posts... It seems to me some people here are confused about the terminology, and

want

Quoted message said:

to pick a good advice apart. Go ahead, rationalize it away. Your loss.

Sorry

Quoted message said:

I wasted my time sharing it with you.

Yeah, there is a BIG difference between relaxed breathing, and breath control, vs. forceful
belabored breathing that wastes energy, and doesn't give you the 'bang' for the effort.

Something I noticed in this group, seems that people in here often confuse technique drills with
swimming itself. I'm starting to find the bickering and misinformation in this group a waste of
my time.

"diablo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"M.W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

who taught you this?

Yeah, if I don't blow the air out with some force, I don't get it all out and then I don't get
enough new air.

Forceful breathing is essential in conditioning the intercostal muscles.

Its

Quoted message said:

effective the point that some company is pushing some ventilation-training device..i remember
seeing it at the ASCA conference..

Does that mean one should be doing breathing conditioning drills while competing in a race? I
hardly think so.

"DaKitty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:3TaDb.14272$m83.11292@fed1read01...

Quoted message said:

Oh, In my case, breathing comes naturally. I hardly have to strain myself

to

Quoted message said:

breathe, swimming or not. Maybe someday you too will learn how to breathe.

while i wasn't intending to upset you in any way, i'd like to point out theres a big difference
between breathing, and effective breathing. Its been a pretty hot topic on another string.

"DaKitty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:aRaDb.14267$m83.7048@fed1read01...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Forceful breathing is essential in conditioning the intercostal muscles.

Its

Quoted message said:

effective the point that some company is pushing some

ventilation-training

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

device..i remember seeing it at the ASCA conference..

Does that mean one should be doing breathing conditioning drills while competing in a race? I
hardly think so.

who said anything about conditioning drills while racing? the point of conditioning is so when it
comes to race time, you're in better shape than you were.

"diablo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

all i asked was who taught you that. i didn't imply anything as to the

value

Quoted message said:

of the advice.

my own personal opinion of breathing is that like anything it has to be trained. relaxed slow
breathing has its place, but so does forceful inhalation and exhalation, regarding training the
intercostal muscles and diaphragm.

i'm sorry you think you're being attacked, then again if everyone agreed

all

Quoted message said:

the time, it'd be a pretty boring place. i think you're taking it a bit

too

Quoted message said:

personally, but if i've contributed to your obvious state of malcontent i apologise.

no worries 🙂

"diablo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"DaKitty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3TaDb.14272$m83.11292@fed1read01...

Quoted message said:

Oh, In my case, breathing comes naturally. I hardly have to strain

myself

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

breathe, swimming or not. Maybe someday you too will learn how to breathe.

while i wasn't intending to upset you in any way, i'd like to point out theres a big difference
between breathing, and effective breathing. Its

been

Quoted message said:

a pretty hot topic on another string.

No worries, it was not directed your way anyway.