Spoke cross question

Bruce Gilbert said:

I have always used a cross spoke pattern when building wheels. I have often
wondered if a customer could actually feel the difference in a front wheel
built with 24 (or 28) 14/15 spokes in a radial, 2x or 3x pattern. For 24 or
28 spokes I generally do a 2x. What have you folks been finding?

Quoted message said:

From what I gather, different lacing patterns having different "feels"

is bogus.

Been building my first few wheels over the past month, and it strikes
me that 24/28 wheels seem just right with 2x, and 32/36 beg for 3x.

Quoted message said:

From all the info I've read regarding wheelbuilding recently 2x and 3x

are ubiquitous for a good reason.

Bruce Gilbert said:

I have always used a cross spoke pattern when building wheels. I
have often wondered if a customer could actually feel the difference
in a front wheel built with 24 (or 28) 14/15 spokes in a radial, 2x
or 3x pattern. For 24 or 28 spokes I generally do a 2x. What have
you folks been finding?

Interleaving crossed spokes has the purpose of preventing a spoke from
going completely slack on overload, although his is a small effect.
The crossed spokes are not in the load affected zone at the same time
so one can pick up slack of the other in such an instance... but not
much.

John Starley introduced cross lacing for high wheelers so he could
tie and solder them to prevent headers when a spoke broke, and they
broke often. Both interleaving and tying spokes together has been a
snake oil subject for all too long.

Quoted message said:

Good seeing many of you at the show,

So what did you see that was interesting or worth while. Most of what
I saw was fashion and carbon. Holland Mechanics is working hard to
keep up with the latest rave in spoke shapes, thinness, placement and
material.

Jobst Brandt

As an excecise, I built a rear Mavic Mach2CD with left side revolution
spokes, 3 cross and the right 14/15, 3cross, onna 36h rear. Previously
it was 14/15 both sides. There is an Obvious difference in chrispness
between the 2 wheels...the 14/15 definately 'feeling' stiffer..one
wheel and anecdotal only, but pretty obvious to me.

Bruce Gilbert said:

I have always used a cross spoke pattern when building wheels. I have often
wondered if a customer could actually feel the difference in a front wheel
built with 24 (or 28) 14/15 spokes in a radial, 2x or 3x pattern. For 24 or
28 spokes I generally do a 2x. What have you folks been finding?

Good seeing many of you at the show,

Bruce

Thanks Peter...

Did you go to the show?

Bruce

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As an excecise, I built a rear Mavic Mach2CD with left side revolution
spokes, 3 cross and the right 14/15, 3cross, onna 36h rear. Previously
it was 14/15 both sides. There is an Obvious difference in chrispness
between the 2 wheels...the 14/15 definately 'feeling' stiffer..one
wheel and anecdotal only, but pretty obvious to me.

Bruce Gilbert said:

I have always used a cross spoke pattern when building wheels. I have

often

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wondered if a customer could actually feel the difference in a front

wheel

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

built with 24 (or 28) 14/15 spokes in a radial, 2x or 3x pattern. For 24

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

28 spokes I generally do a 2x. What have you folks been finding?

Good seeing many of you at the show,

Bruce

Bruce Gilbert said:

Thanks Peter...

Did you go to the show?

One more carbon this or ceramic that and I'm gonna go up on the roof
and start sniping people riding Treks....no-pretty worn out with all
the bike gizmos and gadgets with too much emphasis on 'stuff' and not
enough on riding in this biz. Love working on it, don't enjoy 'selling'
it.

Quoted message said:

Bruce

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As an excecise, I built a rear Mavic Mach2CD with left side revolution
spokes, 3 cross and the right 14/15, 3cross, onna 36h rear. Previously
it was 14/15 both sides. There is an Obvious difference in chrispness
between the 2 wheels...the 14/15 definately 'feeling' stiffer..one
wheel and anecdotal only, but pretty obvious to me.

Bruce Gilbert said:

I have always used a cross spoke pattern when building wheels. I have

often

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wondered if a customer could actually feel the difference in a front

wheel

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

built with 24 (or 28) 14/15 spokes in a radial, 2x or 3x pattern. For 24

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

28 spokes I generally do a 2x. What have you folks been finding?

Good seeing many of you at the show,

Bruce