Sprint up hills, or not?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Reid Priedhorsky said:

My question is, should I sprint up the hills, leaving me somewhat
out-of-breath at the top (and less able to deliver once there), or should
I take it easy and give about the same level of effort as on the flats?
What are the factors to consider? The metric I'm trying to optimize is
total elapsed time.

What's on the other side of the hill? If it is down or flat, then sprint
up and recover on the easier section. If the downhill is too short to
recover before the next hill, then you need to ease up on the climb.
Putting a little extra effort into a climb will generally gain you
significantly more time than putting the same amount of extra effort
into flat riding.

Hill sprints are all a great way to improve your fitness level.

Reid Priedhorsky said:

I have a short loop that I ride for time; it takes me about an hour. Along
this course are a number of hills, most of which are pretty short, in the
range of fifteen seconds to a minute of climbing. One is about five
minutes of climbing.

My question is, should I sprint up the hills, leaving me somewhat
out-of-breath at the top (and less able to deliver once there), or should
I take it easy and give about the same level of effort as on the flats?
What are the factors to consider? The metric I'm trying to optimize is
total elapsed time.

I assume that the slope on the other side is one factor. One of the hills
(the last one) is steep enough on the other side that a few spins get me
up to my maximum comfortable speed and I can then rest while coasting. But
others have level or gently downhill far sides, or even a slight continued
uphill.

Speed on the flats is around 18-20 MPH; taking it easy on the hills would
give 6-14ish MPH (varies a lot), but sprinting I can deliver 13-22ish
(again, lots of variation).

FYI, me + bike is around 230 or 240 pounds, give or take.

You'll go faster overall by putting the extra effort into going up the
hills (since wind resistance carries a higher penalty at higher
speeds, your extra effort gets you a much bigger time reduction going
uphill).

If you don't really care about average speed, it doesn't matter much.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

"Reid Priedhorsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
: Dear group,

: My question is, should I sprint up the hills, leaving me somewhat
: out-of-breath at the top (and less able to deliver once there), or should
: I take it easy and give about the same level of effort as on the flats?
: What are the factors to consider? The metric I'm trying to optimize is
: total elapsed time.
:
: Reid

I agree with Mark, it doesn't matter too much in the big scheme of things.
I put my effort into going up the hills. I figured with the extra effort I
could push out an extra mile or two per hour going up hill. That would be
an 10-20% improvement (assuming I was going up the hill at ~10 mph). When
pushing hard while going down the hill @ 20-25 mph, the 1 or 2 miles per
hour would result in a 5-7% improvement in speed. In terms of percentages,
I feel I get an increase overall speed by pushing hard up the hills. If
someone can show that I am full of it, I'm willing to accept that I am just
fooling myself.

Reid Priedhorsky said:

Dear group,

I have a short loop that I ride for time; it takes me about an hour. Along
this course are a number of hills, most of which are pretty short, in the
range of fifteen seconds to a minute of climbing. One is about five
minutes of climbing.

My question is, should I sprint up the hills, leaving me somewhat
out-of-breath at the top (and less able to deliver once there), or should
I take it easy and give about the same level of effort as on the flats?
What are the factors to consider? The metric I'm trying to optimize is
total elapsed time.

You'll have to experiment. As others have written, it depends a lot on
how much time you have to recover before the next hill. If it's not
much time, then sprinting is going to build up lactic acid, and your
quads are going to be on fire.

And, of course, if you can sprint up a five-minute climb, then I think
Johan Bruyneel will want to talk to you--and Alessandro Petacchi doesn't
want to see your face. :-)

--
Chris BeHanna
'03 Specialized Allez Elite 27
'04 Specialized Hardrock Pro Disc

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"SDB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Reid Priedhorsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
: Dear group,

: My question is, should I sprint up the hills, leaving me somewhat
: out-of-breath at the top (and less able to deliver once there), or
should
: I take it easy and give about the same level of effort as on the flats?
: What are the factors to consider? The metric I'm trying to optimize is
: total elapsed time.
:
: Reid

I agree with Mark, it doesn't matter too much in the big scheme of things.
I put my effort into going up the hills. I figured with the extra effort
I
could push out an extra mile or two per hour going up hill. That would be
an 10-20% improvement (assuming I was going up the hill at ~10 mph). When
pushing hard while going down the hill @ 20-25 mph, the 1 or 2 miles per
hour would result in a 5-7% improvement in speed. In terms of
percentages,
I feel I get an increase overall speed by pushing hard up the hills. If
someone can show that I am full of it, I'm willing to accept that I am
just
fooling myself.

He said the climbs are 15 seconds to a minute, one climb is 5 minutes, those
are very short climbs. For longer climbs of 20 minutes to an hour you make
the most time by going fast on the uphill. One mile per hour faster over a
half hour would put you a half mile ahead. BUT for hills that short you
will go faster overall if you pace yourself so you have lots of power for
the rest of the terrain. So for that course if you want to have the
shortest overall time for the condition you are in then pace yourself and
don't trade your overall power output for such short distances. However if
you want to increase your ability to go faster on that route, you will not
ride it for greatest time. You will ride it for high power output over
short intervals. Sprint up those hills till you get dizzy, right before
throwup threshold and then go totally chill until you're recovered enough to
do it again. Do it over and over. Ride like that 2 maybe 3 times a week
and no more than that. For your other rides, ride easy easy easy. Except
ride one day medium but for as long as you can make time for (3-6 hours
would be great). Ironically to be able to ride the fastest overall, you'll
generally be riding all out or easy, which is slower in the immediate.

In article <[email hidden]>,

SDB said:

"Reid Priedhorsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
: Dear group,

: My question is, should I sprint up the hills, leaving me somewhat
: out-of-breath at the top (and less able to deliver once there), or should
: I take it easy and give about the same level of effort as on the flats?
: What are the factors to consider? The metric I'm trying to optimize is
: total elapsed time.
:
: Reid

I agree with Mark, it doesn't matter too much in the big scheme of things.
I put my effort into going up the hills. I figured with the extra effort I
could push out an extra mile or two per hour going up hill. That would be
an 10-20% improvement (assuming I was going up the hill at ~10 mph). When
pushing hard while going down the hill @ 20-25 mph, the 1 or 2 miles per
hour would result in a 5-7% improvement in speed. In terms of percentages,
I feel I get an increase overall speed by pushing hard up the hills. If
someone can show that I am full of it, I'm willing to accept that I am just
fooling myself.

I will wheel out the mathematics later. The other day I
set out late to get in a bit of riding and decided since I
might not have much time to tackle for the first time a
steep climb. There is a 2.5 km climb starting at 5% and
finishing with 1.5 km at +10%. Once I got to the top I
followed a loop that I have done many times. Checked the
numbers at home and found that the distance was the same
as for the standard loop, but 5 minutes faster out of 90.
I did not travel faster over the road up the climb, but I
did travel faster vertically.

The basic formula for figuring average speed.
Suppose one travels d_1 at speed v_1 and distance d_2 at
speed v_2, and the average speed over d_1 and d_2 is v_avg
then

d_1 d_2 d_1 + d_2
--- + --- = ---------
v_1 v_2 v_avg

v_1 v_2 d_1 = d_2 v_avg
___ ___ _________ ______

8 25 1 12.12
10 25 1 14.28
8 27 1 12.34

--
Michael Press

Go as fast as you can given that you have to do the next hill the same
way.

If you vary speed, you spend more time going uphill than downhill,
so the uphill speed has the most effect on the average.

So vary as little as possible.

The best would be as fast as you can but you have to do the same
hill the same way, so it's less than all-out-at-the-moment.

--
Ron Hardin
[email hidden]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

I always hammer hills under a minute or so long with everything I've
got--if I'm out for a work out--consider it natural intervals.

I've got a few around here that are long enough to get attacked sitting
down, but with similar grit.

I spin the flats at a less zealous, but hard rate--focusing on spinning
and smooth power delivery.

There's many different approaches to hills--I just find them a
convenient tool to get my heart rate up nice and high when on my single
speed.

🙂

Quoted message said:

You'll go faster overall by putting the extra effort into going up the
hills (since wind resistance carries a higher penalty at higher
speeds, your extra effort gets you a much bigger time reduction going
uphill).

Agreed.

I would also vote for sprinting the hills as the effort will serve as
interval training, making you stronger than if you maintained a constant
effort.

But don't forget to have fun.

Chris Neary
[email hidden]

"When I feel good, I attack.
When I don't feel so good, I attack."

- Alexandre Vinokourov

"Chris Neary" <[email hidden] > wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You'll go faster overall by putting the extra effort into going up the
hills (since wind resistance carries a higher penalty at higher
speeds, your extra effort gets you a much bigger time reduction going
uphill).

Agreed.

I would also vote for sprinting the hills as the effort will serve as
interval training, making you stronger than if you maintained a constant
effort.

But don't forget to have fun.

Chris Neary
[email hidden]

"When I feel good, I attack.
When I don't feel so good, I attack."

- Alexandre Vinokourov

Bakas' 2 cents coming.
Sprint the short hills as much as possible, especially if they are up 50
feet and then down on the other side.
If there are no downhills after the uphills it will not be as much fun
speeding downhill after earning it with a sprint.
For a long hill there seems to be no choice but to just find your cadence
and gear and put out the power while seated.
I have a five mile stretch of roller coaster hills that I ride about once a
week and attacking up and coasting down gets me
a better overall speed than not attacking. The roller coasters are about 10%
up and down the other side so the breather
I get on a downhill prepares me for the next attack. It works for me but
then I am the odd one in this group, 56 and riding
a Mongoose MTB. I did a metric century today and didn't have anything to
attack until mile 62 and that was only an
overpass with a 20 foot rise, but it still felt good, except for the crunch
in the bottom bracket.
Maintenance day again. Have fun, sprint, attack, and always keep things
oiled.
Bill Baka (borrowed computer day).
Enjoy.

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In article <[email hidden]>,

Reid Priedhorsky said:

Dear group,

I have a short loop that I ride for time; it takes me about an hour. Along
this course are a number of hills, most of which are pretty short, in the
range of fifteen seconds to a minute of climbing. One is about five
minutes of climbing.

_ Crank on the 5 minute hill, concentrate on speed in and out on
the shorter hills. You can lose a lot of time on rollers if you
aren't powering over the top, that can easily be 5-10 mph faster
at the bottom. At your weight, you loose a lot on the hills and
can be fast on the descents. In short rolling hills, your best
stragety is to charge the descents and try and keep the speed
up as long as possible, once you need to down shift, taper off
your effort a bit and get ready to charge the next descent.

_ The best stragety for overall fastest time, is to ride hard,
but never so hard that you feel the need to recover. It's not
the best training stragety, or the best group racing stragety,
but that's not what you asked about.

_ Booker C. Bense

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